BFR caliber..... WHICH ONE????

[saz]

I have been out of the loop for about a month, training down on Ft. Polk in the heat. Right before I left, I ran into a fella at the range who was shooting his shiney new BFR 7.5" in 444. I asked him a few questions about it and he let me squeeze a few of his handloads off. I cant remember the load exactly, but it was a 355gr boolit moving about 1400fps or so. Recoil was way more managable than I would have thought, and it shot like a laser at 50 yards off the bench.

Now I am absolutely SOLD on a BFR, just not on a caliber. I am torn between a 45/70 and a 500 JRH. I am leaning towards a 45/70 as I already have brass, dies, and a couple of molds. The only negative I can see is the length. BUT, there is something really cool about a 50 caliber handgun. From what I have read, the 500JRH would be my idea of an ideal 50. I have put more than a few rounds through an X frame 500 smith, and those full house loads are a little more than I care to take on a long range session. I think the JRH would be the perfect 50.

The pistol would be used primarily as a hunting handgun, and that is part of the appeal to the shorter frame 500JRH. With a 6.5 or even 7.5" barrel it would ride on the hip or under the shoulder pretty well.

I am just looking for a little bit of first hand experience and any opinions from any BFR owners out there.

[jwp475]

The 500 JRH without question

[Whitworth]

The 500 JRH without question


Another vote for the .500 JRH -- much easier to carry than the long frame guns, and the terminal effects on game are impressive.

[subsonic]

That's a question you'll have ultimately answer for yourself, but I think my .475 with a full power load feels surprisingly like the same recoil I have felt from the .500 s&w i shot. The load was the Hornady 350gr factory stuff and the gun was the John Ross model with no underlug or ports.

The .444 Seems like would be the softest shooting of those we've talked about.

If you buy a JRH, you will probably have to buy it direct from MR because there are no distributors stocking them. I have a contact for you there if you PM me.

[DDriller]

They also make a 458 SOCOM that they don't advertise. I am thinking of getting one for a companion to my 458 SOCOM AR.

[44man]

Either the .475 or JRH, both work to perfection on anything with four legs.
Of all the .50's, the JRH has to be the best and all you need.
I love the 45-70 BFR but it is a BIG gun and is fast enough to need better bullet/boolit selections. The other two can use just a water dropped WW boolit. No expansion needed at all.
We use a 420 gr and a 440 gr PB in the .475 and JRH. I would say the .475 has more snap and wrist twist while the JRH just has barrel rise. From bags but both feel the same off hand.
The JRH can use .500 S&W dies, I like Hornady.
The .500 Linebaugh is a good caliber but dies have been super expensive unless you find a sale. They don't seem to be listed much, I find none in my catalogs. If I remember, RCBS wanted over $200.
The JRH has not caught on yet and the .475 is also out of the general public. It is US, at the sites that drive things. Distributors are afraid to have guns in stock they can't sell because the average hunter want's a .44. Even it is too much for most.

[saz]

Yeah, I keep leaning more toward the 500 more and more, but there doesnt seem to be many molds out there. Lee has a 440, RCBS a 400 and that seems to be about it- although I havent tried accurate molds yet.

Another thing that has my attention is loading a 45/70 for such a short barrel. I am thinking that SR-4759, accurate 5744 and Trail Boss would be good choices. I think if you tried loading it like a rifle you will have big fireballs of unburned powder at the muzzle and some pretty large ES numbers.

So no distributors are carrying the JRH? So if I am not mistaken the only option would be $1050 straight from the factory. Kind of a bummer since Bud's Guns is selling BFR's out the door for $795. That extra $250 would be for brass, dies, molds, ultra dot etc....... Decisions, decisions.....

[subsonic]

My choice of .475 over JRH came down to price and availability.

[44man]

Yeah, I keep leaning more toward the 500 more and more, but there doesnt seem to be many molds out there. Lee has a 440, RCBS a 400 and that seems to be about it- although I havent tried accurate molds yet.

Another thing that has my attention is loading a 45/70 for such a short barrel. I am thinking that SR-4759, accurate 5744 and Trail Boss would be good choices. I think if you tried loading it like a rifle you will have big fireballs of unburned powder at the muzzle and some pretty large ES numbers.

So no distributors are carrying the JRH? So if I am not mistaken the only option would be $1050 straight from the factory. Kind of a bummer since Bud's Guns is selling BFR's out the door for $795. That extra $250 would be for brass, dies, molds, ultra dot etc....... Decisions, decisions.....
4759 for sure in the 45-70 BFR. I have loads. 5744 did not work well.

[ole 5 hole group]

My thoughts on hunting with hand cannon would probably gravitate toward the 500 Smith on that X-frame just because it can handle heavier boolits. You can load the 50 Smith down to whatever level you’re comfortable with, however, you can’t load that 50 JRH up to the velocity nor boolit weight that the 500 Smith can handle. Does it really matter? Probably not, as I think the 50 JRH has proven itself around the world but then so has the 44 magnum. I’ve got both but the Smith is a John Ross model and if I could only have one – I’d have to go with the 500 Smith Ross model.

As for the weight, a good gun belt/heavy dress belt with a holster will handle the weight well and you shouldn’t have any problems with the X-frame – same goes for the BFR 50 JRH.

I personally don’t care for the looks or the weight of that BFR in 45/70 or 500 Smith but - if you’re dead set on a BFR, I’ll go with the group and recommend the 50 JRH. Like the others, I really enjoy mine and it shoots extremely well – but once you encroach beyond that 1,300fps barrier; I’d recommend a shooting glove w/fingers or wrap your trigger finger with 2 band aids.

[Whitworth]

I would argue against the X-frame. It's just too big IMO and I really don't think the .500 Smith's velocity potential is necessary. I shoot 500 grain bullets in my .500 Linebaugh at 1,100 fps and it is lacking absolutely nothing terminally.

[williamwaco]

I didn't know these things existed I may get one myself.

I vote for the .375 or .38-55 Winchester

[subsonic]

I would like to shoot the bfr in JRH and an x-frame loaded with the same JRH ammo and see which is more pleasant.

[Whitworth]

I would like to shoot the bfr in JRH and an x-frame loaded with the same JRH ammo and see which is more pleasant.

I'll bet I can predict which one will be more accurate! :bigsmyl2:

[buck1]

I will agree with the .475 . The .444 with full house loads will take a toll on the elbow after a wile (first hand experence).

[odis]

I have a JT BFR made up for me by the precision center in 2009 in 45 Colt. I really love it but if they had made the factory 44mag back then thats what I would have bought. I only hunt deer in Minnesota. I'm sure you will enjoy the gun in what ever caliber you get it in.

[44man]

Strange how we keep going bigger and bigger into calibers that are just not needed. What has happened is gun makers are doing things never imagined just a few years ago and I can say for sure it is FUN.
I sure do not need a .475 or JRH but hey, they are there! I had to sell some great guns to buy them but I will never be sorry.
My problem is finding a use for a .500 S&W in this country for any animal or the need for a heavier boolit then what we use now. That makes me stop at the JRH.
I could have stopped with the .44 too, it will always work but we are all kind of nuts after all! :mrgreen:
What I like is the large calibers kill faster and still do not ruin meat. Velocity is close with all of them, hard accurate boolits can be used.
These things grow on you until you never want to put them down. That creates a problem with having enough lead to last. I am not buying factory loads or I could not shoot much at all.

[MGySgt]

My choice is a 475 L. Great shooting, recoil seems to be on par with a 44 mag, just a longer curve/push.

I have a great boolit for hunting - LBT WFN GC 400 gr. So far I have not found a practice boolit I like so I don't shoot it that much - those gas checks are expensive!

[saz]

Subsonic sent you a pm

[buck1]

Strange how we keep going bigger and bigger into calibers that are just not needed. What has happened is gun makers are doing things never imagined just a few years ago and I can say for sure it is FUN.
I sure do not need a .475 or JRH but hey, they are there! I had to sell some great guns to buy them but I will never be sorry.
My problem is finding a use for a .500 S&W in this country for any animal or the need for a heavier boolit then what we use now. That makes me stop at the JRH.
I could have stopped with the .44 too, it will always work but we are all kind of nuts after all! :mrgreen:
What I like is the large calibers kill faster and still do not ruin meat. Velocity is close with all of them, hard accurate boolits can be used.
These things grow on you until you never want to put them down. That creates a problem with having enough lead to last. I am not buying factory loads or I could not shoot much at all.

We are just plain ol adicted buddy! :drinks:

[frankenfab]

I have the .444, and it is a wonderful piece. Kinda ungainly to carry, and I have a really nice rig for it. I had a BFR .475 and traded it, wish I hadn't, but now I have a Freedom Arms .475 and a .500 Linebaugh Linebaugh. The .475 BFR had a problem with the cyclinder unlocking. It took a couple phone calls from them and a bit of shooting on their part, but they finally agreed there was a problem. They sent me a new gun, and I could tell they really went the extra mile on the new one. It was Sweeeet, and I am an idiot for letting it go.

I would go .500 JRH or .475. The Freedom Arms holsters are awesome for the short cylinder BFRs! It's a very comforting feeling, having that much controllable, packable, precision, power, just on your hip.

[44man]

I have the .444, and it is a wonderful piece. Kinda ungainly to carry, and I have a really nice rig for it. I had a BFR .475 and traded it, wish I hadn't, but now I have a Freedom Arms .475 and a .500 Linebaugh Linebaugh. The .475 BFR had a problem with the cyclinder unlocking. It took a couple phone calls from them and a bit of shooting on their part, but they finally agreed there was a problem. They sent me a new gun, and I could tell they really went the extra mile on the new one. It was Sweeeet, and I am an idiot for letting it go.

I would go .500 JRH or .475. The Freedom Arms holsters are awesome for the short cylinder BFRs! It's a very comforting feeling, having that much controllable, packable, precision, power, just on your hip.
Yeah, they buy springs like everyone. The little cylinder stop spring will cause unlocking if weak. Almost every gun can have a spring problem.
Even the Rem 870 and 1100 had sorry magazine springs and they would set. I bought Wolff springs by the dozens. Ruger and BFR hammer springs can set and get weaker. Accuracy will drop.
Had a S&W here not long ago that would not fire a primer. The strain screw was too short so I fixed it. Works fine now. I suspect an owner shortened it for a better trigger.

[wellfedirishman]

I would vote for a BFR 500 S&W. The cartridge is more of a 'mainstream' one than a JRH, and thus would appeal to more folks if you ever wanted to sell it later.

Also, the 500 S&W can be loaded down to very pleasant loads that are fun to shoot and still put a big hole where it counts.

Here is my BFR 500 with the barrel very nicely shortened to 5.5" approx. It is pictured with a S&W X-Frame 500 S&W 6" (or maybe 6.5") barrel (ported).

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/Smith%20Wessons/Pairof500s.jpg

Here is how it came from the factory. I found the 7.5" barrel to be a bit unwieldy for me.
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/Smith%20Wessons/OscarBFR-1.jpg

[Whitworth]

You're forcing me to post this photo again......:bigsmyl2:

I'll take the smaller revolver on the bottom (.500 JRH). It'll do everything the .500 will do with less noise, recoil, and powder -- oh, and it can be shot offhand a bit more effectively. The .500 Smith is only more mainstream because it has been a commercial cartridge for longer. All that velocity just isn't necessar IMO. I run my .500 Linebaugh at a whopping 1,100 fps and it's a stone cold killer on game.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/MarkoR/P1010853.jpg

[wellfedirishman]

I must say that the 500 JRH (lower one) does look very handy, almost like a 50 caliber Blackhawk. That is very neat.

[Whitworth]

Thanks! It is a great cartridge and a handy revolver! I am really happy with it.

[ole 5 hole group]

Here's a look at the chunky monkey vs the JRH. With really, really heavy loads the JRH will chew on your trigger finger a little, while the Smith just massages your palm a little.

How do you guys post such big pictures, as opposed to the thumbnail that I get?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_70364e6630e538d8d.jpg ('http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2045')

[saz]

Here's a look at the chunky monkey vs the JRH. With really, really heavy loads the JRH will chew on your trigger finger a little, while the Smith just massages your palm a little.

How do you guys post such big pictures, as opposed to the thumbnail that I get?

What kind of sight is on that Smith? Looks like a burris or luepold. I didnt think the heads up type sights would hold up to the recoil very well.

Tried an Eotech on a barrett 50bmg once on a bet to see if it would hold up, it didnt last more than 35 rounds.

[ButcheN]

add one more for the 50 JRH it will not have that boolit jump from the case to the cone that the 500 s&w has. Isn't there a space from the front of the boolit to the end of the cylinder because that is the same size cylinder as the 45-70? (If not sorry for my stupid mouth) but I like the size of the 50 JRH handgun better and no jump. but if you are going with the long cylinder go with the 45-70 it's a great round. I have contender in ssk 45-70 and an encore in a mgm 500 S&W both are great rounds to shoot but if I was going to get a BFR, and I am thinking of getting one, I would get the 50 JRH (but I may get a 475 linebaugh because I don't have a 475)
but all this is my 2cts worth.

[44man]

add one more for the 50 JRH it will not have that boolit jump from the case to the cone that the 500 s&w has. Isn't there a space from the front of the boolit to the end of the cylinder because that is the same size cylinder as the 45-70? (If not sorry for my stupid mouth) but I like the size of the 50 JRH handgun better and no jump. but if you are going with the long cylinder go with the 45-70 it's a great round. I have contender in ssk 45-70 and an encore in a mgm 500 S&W both are great rounds to shoot but if I was going to get a BFR, and I am thinking of getting one, I would get the 50 JRH (but I may get a 475 linebaugh because I don't have a 475)
but all this is my 2cts worth.
Boolit jump is nothing to worry about at all. It has never proven to affect anything. The BFR .500 S&W and the 45-70 are both super accurate. Those thoughts have had gun companies make cylinders too short.
The difference to think about is gun size and weight and your use.
Long ago when dead soft boolits were shot, then maybe, jump was a factor.
I have always thought that MR should come out with a mid range frame and cylinder but not because of jump, because of a smaller gun that is easier to carry and handle.

[ole 5 hole group]

Saz, that's a leupold DeltaPoint with the 7.5moa delta. It has held up fine for the past year with both full on loads and normal target shooting loads. I'm able to shoot just about anytime I desire, so I've given this sight a good test on the Smith, as well as my BFR's in 454 Casull and 500JRH over the past 14 months or so.

There's several other people using that sight on 454 casull's, 475L and the 500 Smith and the vast majority can take all the punishment you want to give it - there's always a couple that don't hold up and we always read about those, as most people don't bother to comment when everything is going good.

The sight is super light (0.5 oz) and I made a mistake by not purchasing the mount kit for $50.00, as I've been told the mount for the Smith is a lot lighter than the Weigand I have on there now, which is 5.5 ounces making that setup 6 ounces overall. I might just take a hacksaw to the mount someday.

[Frank]

Whitworth:

oh, and it can be shot offhand a bit more effectively.
Can you elaborate? I think you are right but I don't know if it's the barrel length or the weight.

[saz]

Saz, that's a leupold DeltaPoint with the 7.5moa delta. It has held up fine for the past year with both full on loads and normal target shooting loads. I'm able to shoot just about anytime I desire, so I've given this sight a good test on the Smith, as well as my BFR's in 454 Casull and 500JRH over the past 14 months or so.

There's several other people using that sight on 454 casull's, 475L and the 500 Smith and the vast majority can take all the punishment you want to give it - there's always a couple that don't hold up and we always read about those, as most people don't bother to comment when everything is going good.

The sight is super light (0.5 oz) and I made a mistake by not purchasing the mount kit for $50.00, as I've been told the mount for the Smith is a lot lighter than the Weigand I have on there now, which is 5.5 ounces making that setup 6 ounces overall. I might just take a hacksaw to the mount someday.

WOW! That sight only weighs .5 oz? I may have to get one just for my M-4. The accupoints are tough as nails, but a little heavy and bulky. I am not really surprised that it is the Loopy on there, they dont tend to make junk.

[Whitworth]

Whitworth:

Can you elaborate? I think you are right but I don't know if it's the barrel length or the weight.

It's a big chunk of revolver -- it weighs a lot and it's really long so it doesn't necessarily balance well. I do a lot of offhand shooting and this is an important factor to me.

[Frank]

Whitworth:

It's a big chunk of revolver -- it weighs a lot and it's really long so it doesn't necessarily balance well. I do a lot of offhand shooting and this is an important factor to me.
Thanks. What I like about the long cylinder BFR is the way it balances off my leg Creedmore. Here is a 100 yd group but I discovered 2 shots that may have gone to the left. I can't wait to try the new load again. Now the .475 is also sighted in this way. It hits water bottles dead on 100 yards shooting this way. I need to compare them again offhand at 50 yds to see how the two handle. That was a good point.
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=4229

[Groo]

Groo here
When you get above 45 cal --- the bullet is so big that most any cartridge will be fine..
Remember that these guns will come verrrry close to the old Bp
rifles of the 1800's and they would drop anything on this side of the world...
I would think that Fit and Weight would be more important at this point..
Also these bigger bores are verry cast boolit friendly and don't need the higher [over 1200]
speeds to "Get'er done"

[subsonic]

Here's a look at the chunky monkey vs the JRH. With really, really heavy loads the JRH will chew on your trigger finger a little, while the Smith just massages your palm a little.

How do you guys post such big pictures, as opposed to the thumbnail that I get?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_70364e6630e538d8d.jpg ('http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2045')

5 Hole, what length barrel is on that BFR? Is that what they call a 5.5"? really 6 something...

[saz]

Groo here
When you get above 45 cal --- the bullet is so big that most any cartridge will be fine..
Remember that these guns will come verrrry close to the old Bp
rifles of the 1800's and they would drop anything on this side of the world...
I would think that Fit and Weight would be more important at this point..
Also these bigger bores are verry cast boolit friendly and don't need the higher [over 1200]
speeds to "Get'er done"


That is my thinking. I have hunted all my life with muzzleloaders, both inline and caplock, and it always amazes me how damn deadly they are with heavy conicals. The moose in my avitar was taken with a .50cal 495gr conical at 115 yards. That load only develops about 1050fps at the muzzle, but had complete penetration and broke the offside shoulder.

[ButcheN]

I just don't see how you could go wrong with the 475 L. you can go down to 480 R. From what I read it is a real killer. Nothing it will not kill with the right load. Not the long frame so ease of carry. The way I see it, it's a win win.
I have the 500 S&W, to much gun I have now found out they do have a 500 special and a light load S&W. But I think you can have a lighter gun and just as much killing power. I am a one shooter gun man and I am going to get myself a 6" full bull for my encore in the 475 L. I think it will a great backpacker.
But that is my 2cts. worth.
ButcheN

[ole 5 hole group]

Saz - when I got my 500JRH you had to order it from their precision center, so I ordered a 6" barrel - the 500 Smith next to it is a JR model with a 5" barrel.

[Whitworth]

I have the 500 S&W, to much gun I have now found out they do have a 500 special and a light load S&W. But I think you can have a lighter gun and just as much killing power. I am a one shooter gun man and I am going to get myself a 6" full bull for my encore in the 475 L. I think it will a great backpacker.
But that is my 2cts. worth.
ButcheN



Hence the .500 JRH -- all of the power you need, in a much smaller package -- the best of both worlds IMO.

[bearcove]

I vote 475 L. Just bought one.

[ButcheN]

Hence the .500 JRH -- all of the power you need, in a much smaller package -- the best of both worlds IMO.

Whitworth that is too true. But my 500 is an Encore but if I could go back in time. oh well. But I may go and add to my family and get a BFR 500jrh...........Is it true you can shoot the JRH in the S&W? I just realized that you may can. And I may get the JRH for my 6" bull barrel backpack gun. But then I wouldn't need the BFR.

Hay where can you get JRH ammo??

[Whitworth]

Yup, you can shoot JRH ammo in a .500 Smith, no problem. Grizzly Cartridge has 5 or 6 different loads for it and all that I have tested has been exceedingly accurate.

[sergeant69]

Here's a look at the chunky monkey vs the JRH. With really, really heavy loads the JRH will chew on your trigger finger a little, while the Smith just massages your palm a little.

How do you guys post such big pictures, as opposed to the thumbnail that I get?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_70364e6630e538d8d.jpg ('http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2045')
thats easy..........use a bigger camera! [smilie=s: sorry.

[subsonic]

And you can shoot 375 H&H ammo in a 458 Win mag

Not the same. Do not try this at home kids.

[Whitworth]

And you can shoot 375 H&H ammo in a 458 Win mag

Just like you can shoot .38 special in a .357 mag. What is your point if I may ask? The .500 Special can also be safely shot in a .500 Smith and it has a shorter case than the JRH.

[Ed K]

I deleted my post. I guess I was tired but I was trying to demonstrate a point and maybe went a little too far in doing so. Sure you can shoot a 500 JRH in a 500 S&W mag. The point I was trying to make is that here on Cast Boolits we go to such great lengths to get accuracy why would you ever want to do it? It's not like there's a bunch of cheap mil-surplus JRH ammo out there. I only shoot 357mags out of 357s and 44 mags out of 44 mag revolvers. There is not much cheap 38 special ammo out there and 44 special costs more than 44 mag! I load to lower pressures in those cases if I need to. Now it is well understood that a long throat is no problem but we don't want an already moving and under pressure boolit to have to align itself in the throat.

It is my understanding that while not recommended, a 375HH poses no safety issue being fired out of a 458WM. Not recommending anything - correct me if I'm wrong.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I always fancied a 444 in one of these. The only ones that seem to come to Australia are the 45/70 and the 30/30 (this may have changed, I haven't looked at them for awhiles). We aren't allowed over 45 cal either, apart from black powder rifles.

The 30/30 can be bought by anyone with a target pistol license here and consequently they are the most popular chambering, but the calibres above 38 need a high calibre license ( which I have, but I don't have the disposable or a big enough pistol safe, lol.

The 30/30s are a sweet gun apparently.

[bearcove]

I'd like one of the 22 hornets. But they must weigh a ton without all of those huge holes bored out.