boolits sticking in sizing die

[singleshotbuff]

Gentlemen,

I am attempting to size some boolits from .313" down to .309", using a lyman die in my Lyman 45 lubri-sizer. The boolits are water quenched, cast of 50/50 wheelweights and range lead. I cast them several weeks ago, and they are pretty hard.

These d@mn things keep sticking in the die and tying up the whole press! I have to take the die out and knock the boolit out with a hammer and punch. The die is new, just got it from midway. I oiled the inside of the die after the first boolit stuck and even tried to size an oiled boolit, neither of which helped.

Any ideas? I'd hate to have to size them down in steps.

Thanks in advance for any input.

SSB

[Maven]

Ssb, You may have to resort to rolling your unsized CB's in a good [case] resizing lube before you size them to .309". If that doesn't work, you'll also have to size them to .311" and then .309". A third possibility is to purchase a Lee .309" push-through sizer die and eliminate double sizing and maybe even lubing as well.

[BABore]

For one, your going to soften the bullets by running them full hard into the die. Your also likely to bend the bullets slightly.

If I had to do it, I would oven anneal the bullets, size them, then heat treat them again. You could also anneal, heat treat, then immediately size/lube them.

My normal procedure, with WD bullets is to run them through a push through sizer, then through the luberisizer with a die 0.0005 over. GC's are put on in the push through.

[singleshotbuff]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the quick responses. I seem to recall running into this problem before with water dropped .452" boolits and I annealed them to soften them for sizing, then re-heat treated them.

How I annealed them escapes me at the moment, can you gents please refresh me on annealing and re-heat treating (if needed)?

Thanks

SSB

[sundog]

"Any ideas? I'd hate to have to size them down in steps."

That's your best choice at this point. What might have worked best is sizing immediately after casting, or air cooled, size whenever, and then heat treat. You'll have hard boolits doing it the second way. sundog

[cbrick]

singleshotbuff,

Annealing is the easiest part. Simply place them on a tray and put them in the oven at about 450 degrees (with ALL lube removed). Leave them there for about an hour and then turn off the oven. Just leave them in the oven untill they are cool. They will be the softest that "your" alloy will allow.

If you want them hard again after sizing, put them back in the oven for an hour and when you take them out as fast as possible submerse them in cool water, wait a day or two and they will once again be hard. How hard depends on the alloy and the oven temp.

To lube them after HT use a die .0005" to .001" larger than the die used to size them.

Shame that you water dropped them first. Sizing hardened bullets is tough on the bullets, tough on the lubrisizer and tough on you. How come you want to size them down so much? Sizing .004" is a bunch and depending on what your bore slug measures (.308"?) sizing to .310" would be a bit easier on all of the above mentioned tough on things. Kinda sounds like your using a .303 Brit bullet in a 308?

Rick

[Char-Gar]

It is not a great trick to size a bullet .004 without damaging the bullet in a nose first push through die mounted in the top of a loading press. I have been doing all my rifle bullets this way for several years. I then lube them in a Lyman machine, easy work as the bullet is already sized.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I routinely size Lyman 314299 down from .314" to .310" with no trouble, but the only alloy in stock arund here is WW + 2% tin. I remember sizing the last of my linotype down .002" and it took some effort.

[454PB]

Water quenched boolits don't get hard immediately. When I quench them, I size them within hours while still relatively soft. This also prevents the resoftening that happens if they are sized weeks latter.

[David R]

I squirt the pile of boolits with one shot or RCBS case lube. They slide right through.

David

[Dale53]

Keep in mind that trying to greatly size down HARD bullets with your Lyman or RCBS sizer is really hard on the sizer. You can seriously damage them (yeah, they actually break). When you have a serious size down, it is MUCH better to use a Lee push through sizer. You will not hurt your large and powerful loading press nor the Lee sizer. Even with the push through dies, I definitely recommend that you lube the bullets before trying to size. You can use a spray case lube or pan lube before sizing. I have often sized large, soft, BPCR bullets, with a push through sizer without problems of any kind.

spraying with such as WD 40 is not going to work well. You need a "high film strength" lube such as bullet lube or case lube.

Dale53

[leftiye]

Sounds like rolling no a pad in lanolin would help a bunch, whatever sizer. The original owner of hawk bullets (I think it was) suggested mixing RCBS case lube with lanolin as a good swage lube.

Yet, if you've got a big reduction in diameter to make is can't be gotten around that it would go a lot easier with soft lead. The lead on the outside of the boolit that you swage when you size becomes soft lead at that point anyway, and will lead your barrel. When you smear (reads swage) lead it breaks down the crystalline structure of the metal, and it is at that point as soft as pure lead. A good reason not to size if not necessary, and to heat treat AFTER sizing.