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Buckshot
06-09-2005, 02:11 PM
...........Glen, one of the Burrito Shooters brought a pretty nice little 5 shot Iver Johnson breaktop in 38 S&W last Tuesday. It's nickel plated and that seems about 90% or more. Better yet it is very tight, and like a lot of these, it doesn't appear to have been shot very much. The bore is very bright with maybe a touch of staining.

It is a combo SA & DA capable. Regardless the initial cost or the regard some have for these 'Nightstand' revolvers, the fit and finish would have to be described as superb. Looking down the frame at an angle there are no dips or dished spots around screw and pin holes from polishing, and very few machine marks are evident.

Glen was asking what it was worth and Larry, our resident expert suggested about $80 or so. A couple years ago he became enamoured of these old bedroom pistols and has collected quite a few. One of his best examples is a Mulwin & Hulbert (Merwin & Hulbert? Something like that) that looks as if it had been made yesterday. Problem here is that it is a 38 Rimfire! One of Larry's I've shot is a S&W breaktop in 32 S&W, for which he paid for documentation and it's a 1st model shipped in 1878 to a hardware store in Chicago. It's in perfect condition.

I don't know if Glen was disappointed in the price quote or if he didn't have any intention of selling it, so he just put it back in it's rug. Larry would have been on it like a chicken on a June bug. It did have a broken spring or something as the trigger didn't return in DA mode. Truth to tell I wouldn't have minded having it :-) I suppose a good load would something like 1.2grs of Bullseye :D

...............Buckshot

NVcurmudgeon
06-10-2005, 05:59 PM
Was it Elmer Keith in "Sixguns," anyhow somebody who talked to some of the oldtimers, who said that those little .38's killed more men than the big holster guns. The story went that while the victim was keeping a good eye on the shooter's Colt SAA, he overlooked the concealed .38 until too late!

Jumptrap
06-10-2005, 07:45 PM
Was it Elmer Keith in "Sixguns," anyhow somebody who talked to some of the oldtimers, who said that those little .38's killed more men than the big holster guns. The story went that while the victim was keeping a good eye on the shooter's Colt SAA, he overlooked the concealed .38 until too late!

Well, a 38 (of any description) to the guts would have a tendency to ruin anybdy's day, especially if it was 100+ years ago and no ER on the nearest corner to fill you back up with red ink and antibiotics. There has been so much published on what it takes to blow a man's $hit away but brother, let me tell you, somebody starts poking holes in you with a 25 automatic, a .32 short or a 380 auto stands a great chance of changing your immediate destiny! For a pocket gun, a 380 is difficult to beat. I ain't out to face the Dalton Gang, kill drug frenzied Moro tribesmen, just to get some punk off my ass....if need be. I promise, the first BANG will have a rapid response to that gesture, even more so if his vital juices are filling his shoes like Bud flowing over the rim of a chilled glass.

45 2.1
06-10-2005, 09:45 PM
Without antibiotics, a blackpowder cartridge of any kind would lead to a nasty infection which would kill you. That more than anything else was the killer in being shot in frontier conditions.

DanWalker
06-10-2005, 09:46 PM
Well, a 38 (of any description) to the guts would have a tendency to ruin anybdy's day, especially if it was 100+ years ago and no ER on the nearest corner to fill you back up with red ink and antibiotics. There has been so much published on what it takes to blow a man's $hit away but brother, let me tell you, somebody starts poking holes in you with a 25 automatic, a .32 short or a 380 auto stands a great chance of changing your immediate destiny! For a pocket gun, a 380 is difficult to beat. I ain't out to face the Dalton Gang, kill drug frenzied Moro tribesmen, just to get some punk off my ass....if need be. I promise, the first BANG will have a rapid response to that gesture, even more so if his vital juices are filling his shoes like Bud flowing over the rim of a chilled glass.
AMEN.....
I have a charter arms snubby in 38special that's been my companion through a few bad times and bad places. Never had to use it on human flesh yet, but it put down two feral hogs, one of which had decided,since I was on hands and knees and tangled in vines it was a good idea to charge me from 10 feet away. A 158gr jhp changed his mind. I've had to show it to a couple miscreants on occaision, but luckily nothing serious has happened.

Willbird
06-10-2005, 11:24 PM
I thought the quote was that more men had been killed by smith and wesson 32's than any other gun.

There was a guy in the town I grew up in, his estranged wife shot him 9 times in the chest and abdomen with an H&R 999 pistol, he took the gun away from her, and finished loading his **** in the car (he was moving out)...he fell off a barstool and died several days later from the internal injuries. Story has it he was an OX of a man

Bill

Bret4207
06-11-2005, 06:22 AM
Those Iver Johnsons and H+R's were well finished guns for the common man. Any tool finished to the same specs today would command a premium price. There are limitations with the old girls: Don't load hot, ever, at all, never, don't do it. Watch the timing, alot of them get crud in the little nooks and crannys and spit lead. Comes from sitting in a drawer or tool box for 75 years. Don't expect a IJ 32 short to compete with a S+W M16. They shoot well for their price, but they aren't target guns ( excepting the H+R Target models). Wear safety glasses and don't load hot.

I'll agree that ANY gun is better than no gun and having been on both ends of the argument I can say with certainty that even a lowly 22 looks pretty big when pointed in your direction. Although my testosterone level may be questioned, I admit to carrying a Beretta 25 in my Carharts pants pocket quite often. No worries about the shirt riding up and scaring people at Wally World. The outline could be anything from a cell phone to a package of Zingers. Do I WANT to use it for serious purposes? Nope, been ther, done that off duty crap. But it's there if needed and has put down a few car struck animals on my way to work. The little snot makes me wonder about those NAA 32 and 25 rounds. Too bad they cost so much. Be fun to see if they work as advertised.

Willbird
06-11-2005, 10:39 AM
You can buy a Makarov bbl for the 32NAA, thats not terrible expensive.


Bill

9.3X62AL
06-11-2005, 01:16 PM
I came across one of these Iver Johnsons in 38 S&W some years back, and it's a decent little pocket revolver. It had been carried a lot from its finish wear, but not shot much at all. Timing was good, so I cobbled up some low-intensity 38 S&W ammo for it. I think this revolver was the inspiration for getting the RCBS 38 S&W Cowboy die set, IIRC.

I launched some 95 grain Makarov boolits to around 600 FPS, sized @ .361". 25 of these all stayed on a B-27 silhouette at 25 yards, so I moved to the 7 yard line--and the little roller could keep everything inside the head at that distance. It'll work, all right.

I am sort of casting about for a solid frame revolver in 38 S&W. One of the S&W Victory examples would be nice, as would a Colt PP. I had a chance at a Colt "Banker's Special" a few years ago (PP x 2" in 38 S&W), but didn't want it enough to spend $450. My Enfield #2* is rugged as can be, but its DAO trigger is a challenge to master, for sure.

floodgate
06-12-2005, 01:16 AM
Bret, Al: Yeah, those Iver & Richardsons were nicely-made. But the trigger springs are a weak point, and the staked-in pinned assembly is another; don't EVER take one apart if you don't absolutely have to, as they'll be a lot looser after re-assembly. But you're right; if you are not a volume shooter and just need a "piece" for self-defense, they'll do the job. I've heard two views on the .25's: (1) Don't shoot him; you'll just make him REALLY mad! And (2), from an ex-cop who had been shot six times in the back with one - "It didn't stop me, but it sure HURT!" floodgate

crazy mark
06-14-2005, 12:09 AM
I like the 38 S&W ctg and the guns to shoot it in also. I have 2 - IJ breaktops, one with an exposed hammer and my GreatGrandmothers with a concealed hammer, an H&R 926, and a Colt PPS that is marked RHKP. I know people will say that the PPS didn't come in this caliber but that is what the barrel is marked. The H&R 926 has no ejector rod and a funky loading gate. I have put many rounds down range with the H&R and the Colt. I haven't shot the concealed hammer yet but plan to in the next 2 weeks. I even have the original box of ammo she bought with it back around 1941 or so. Mark

lar45
06-14-2005, 02:14 AM
I just got these off of auction arms. Still have to wait a week until they show up. Is the 32 S&W cartrige similar enough to 32 H&R mag to use the same brass and loading dies?
http://pictures.auctionarms.com/5862165543/9c2c2319a08ac1d0b83e0aaeac7d2eba.jpg

http://pictures.auctionarms.com/5862165543/de5e39cd03bc8989efd868b204bc6aac.jpg

I think they'll be fun to shoot.

Scrounger
06-14-2005, 09:58 AM
I just got these off of auction arms. Still have to wait a week until they show up. Is the 32 S&W cartrige similar enough to 32 H&R mag to use the same brass and loading dies?
http://pictures.auctionarms.com/5862165543/9c2c2319a08ac1d0b83e0aaeac7d2eba.jpg

http://pictures.auctionarms.com/5862165543/de5e39cd03bc8989efd868b204bc6aac.jpg

I think they'll be fun to shoot.

I THINK so, Lar. Look at the photo below: I interpret that to mean you can use it on .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, and .32 Magnum. There's 4 dies in the box, I don't remember what the extra on is for. Anyway, these dies are listed on AuctionArms; if you want them, you can have them for $28 with the shipping.
http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Scrounger/rcbs.jpg

NVcurmudgeon
06-14-2005, 10:33 AM
The die set being marked for .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Magnum likely indicates that it is a .32 S&W set, with a spacer for use when loading .32 H&R Magnum. If the seater was correct for crimping .32 H&R Magnum, it could not crimp .32 S&W Long. This is how RCBS makes their die sets for .38 Special/.357 Magnum and .44 Special/.44 Magnum. If you are very fortunate, the fourth die is a seater for .32 S&W and you will be able to load all three cartidges with one die set.

carpetman
06-14-2005, 10:44 AM
I have an old Iver J break top with folding hammer. I think the patents on it go back to like 1886 and it was pretty crude shape when I got it. Never had any interest in shooting it. Thought about having a brass placard engraved with big letters that says JESSE JAMES and in fine print below that---never owned this gun.

KCSO
06-14-2005, 11:14 AM
32 H and R is 1/10 of an inch longer than 32 S and W long and S and W long is 1/10 longer than 32 S and W which is what these old revlovers are chambered for. The dies will work for all of them, but for 32 s and w the dies in some makes don't crimp. I shoot a 38 S and W and I have just donated to our local musuem the H and R 38 S and W that belonged to the first Sheriff of our county. As late as 1975 the Sheriff here carried an old lemon squeezer to work and thoght his 38 Short was good enough. Here in the hinterlands we had an ecletic mox of weaponry when I started, one guy had a bisley 38-40 one had a 38 super and one carried a 38 S and W. I am working on an article now on loading the 38 S and W the old time way, with a #3 Ideal loading tool and B/P. This outfit is slow, but makes as good a shell as you will ever need. 160 Gr .360 bullet and 12 grains of FFFg Black for 700 fps from a 3" H and R.

I was also privlidged to attend the autopsy of a fellow shot in the head with a 38 S and W. The bullet was fired at contact distance and entered the right temple and then made three complete circles in the brain pan and never exited. That doesn't say a whole lot for power, but it did the job.