Marlin or Winchester?

[ColColt]

I've been looking over the Winchester 92/94 and Marlin 94 series in 44 Magnum. Which manufacturer does best with cast boolits in this caliber? I've read mixed reviews about Marlin's mico rifling.

[Wally]

I had a Marlin..I now have a USRA 94AE which IMHO shoots cast bullets better...ie more accurate. Best to size 'em to .431" ...the Marlin would probably work better if one used larger bullets--ie .433"+, but I don't know if they'd chamber. Also had a Browning B-92...it was not as accurate as the USRA 94AE.

[Old Goat Keeper]

Microgroove rifling will shoot with or out shoot ballard rifling (like the Winnie has) IF you size the cast slug to .002 OVER groove diameter. Just ask any of the guys over at Marlin Owners!

T-o-m

[ReloaderFred]

I have both the Marlin and Winchester in .44 Magnum. I much prefer the Marlin. It's more accurate and much smoother to operate.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[EDK]

Get a MARLIN...preferably a new in box old stock or a used one! REMINGTON is allegedly having quality control issues. Ballard rifling is supposed to be an improvement over the micro-groove, but I can't see a practical difference. I don't know what caused WINCHESTER's problems...you'll have to read up on the various 1892 clones from various vendors.

Glenn Fryxell's articles at lasc.us will show you what you need. RANCH DOG makes some d*** good moulds specifically for MARLINS. That new 44 round nose flat point mould that you are so justly proud of will also work nicely...a gas check might be nice, but not necessary. Do a little reading on the LYMAN 429640 and MIHEC'S version of it. The 260/270 grain round nose flat point seems to be "the sweet spot" for my 44 MARLIN Cowboy Rifles and assortment of VAQUEROS and BLACKHAWKS. We're a little smarter about diameters and boolit fit than we were years ago.

Your choice of rifles may be limited. There are MARLINS on gunbroker, etc. BUT I haven't seen many in the sales rack in the local gun shops I frequent in a long time...Not too many WINCHESTER lever guns in pistol cartridges either.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[runfiverun]

lets see... i got a 92 rossi a 92 browning and a 94 win ae in 44 mag.
the 92 brownie is oal testy but will feed most anything under the 610 and is more accurate with boolits than the 94 which only sees swaged jaxketed stuff nowdays.
the rossi stainless 92 is the one that gets shot the most.
and the marlin got sold for another rossi but in 45 colt cause i needed a carbine to go with the two rifle models.
once i count what leverguns i got it seems i prefer the rossi 92's with rnfp boolits.

[skeet1]

I have owned and used both the Winchester 94 and I currently own a Marlin 94 both were in .44 Mag. I consider them both equal in accuracy and only the user can decide which of the two different models are best for him. In my case I prefer the Marlin solid top action with Ballard type rifling however the Winchester angle eject 94 is very good.

Ken

[Wally]

I have owned and used both the Winchester 94 and I currently own a Marlin 94 both were in .44 Mag. I consider them both equal in accuracy and only the user can decide which of the two different models are best for him. In my case I prefer the Marlin solid top action with Ballard type rifling however the Winchester angle eject 94 is very good.

Ken

Ken,

I've found the USRA to be good to about 100 yards... I scoped mine and tried at 200~250 and was humbled by the experience. Whats so odd is that the .444 Marlin with equivilent loads is so much more accurate at those ranges..I have never figured out just why.

[cajun shooter]

The Rossi 92 is overlooked by so many people and they have made them since the 70's. I am glad to see that one poster has found that out. The better ones are the early ones that were imported by Navy Arms, Interarms, EMF Hartford. The late ones that are made by Taurus I can't speak for.
The one problem that I have with Marlins and this just applies to using them in SASS matches. They are designed to throw the empty brass to the front right of the shooter. You may not cross the firing line to retrieve your brass. When I shot a Marlin I could fire 10 rounds and only receive 1 empty back. The 92 design is stronger than the 94 as it is a scaled down 1886 to fire revolver rounds.
I have shot both the Ballard and Micro groove Marlins and received like performance.
As far as any one telling you what size bullet to shoot, that may only be found by slugging the bore of each rifle.

[ColColt]

Speaking of Navy Arms reminds me of the Remington Rolling Block carbine in 45/70 I had back in the 70's. It was a great shooter but that short barrel coupled with the brass crescent shaped butt plate was rough on the shoulder. I ended up selling or trading it.

I see no one has mentioned Uberti lever actions. They look good-especially the 1873 Winchester clone but, I don't believe they make a 44 Magnum. It seems most here like the Marlin over the Winchester.

Glenn Fryxell's article on lever guns is good. Somewhere on that website I recall him saying something about (at least his Marlin) them being velocity sensitive with the Micro groove 1:38 twist and how dropping the velocity in the test he did gave better grouping. I can't recall the specifics of that test. I don't know if all that is pertinent now since from what I've seen on Marlin's website, this particular model doesn't have Micro groove barrels but rather, a 6-groove Ballard type rifling. That, of course, is a new one but still has the rather long and slow 1:38" twist.

I'm not at all familiar with Rossi and for some reason when I see that name, I think of revolvers.

One last item I wondered about. Is the Marlin drilled/tapped to mount a Lyman/Williams peep sight? I'm sort of partial to those as my first introduction to a peep sight was in the M14 and I did well with it at 21 and now many decades later, I'm sure it would work even better. Anything would have to beat that buck horn sight.

[Greg G]

My Marlin is drilled and tapped for a scope mount. I have a Williams peep sight mounted in the rear two holes. It just bolts right on. I really like the peep sight. Quicker and more accurate for me. I find it impossible to focus on the factory rear and the front sight. one ends up fuzzy.

[EDK]

The older MARLINS are drilled and tapped for side mounted receiver sights....I don't know when the change occurred. The newer ones used the holes for the rear scope mount base..looks awkward...solution is to drill another hole to the rear of the existing ones. Do some looking over at marlinowners.com for more info.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[skeet1]

Wally,
I have never owned or fired a .444, all I can say is both the Winchester and the Marlin in ,44 Mag. would shoot the Lyman 429244 into an honest 3.5 to 4 inches at 100 with open sights. That is good for my eyes.

Ken

[northmn]

I like the Marlins better as they are far smoother than a Winchester, but a Winchester has a nice feel to it. Some Winchesters and their clones have had accuracy problems when the barrel heats up and contacts the barrel bands. As to micro groove rifling, the 94 and Ballard riflings shot about anything where some seem to have to play a bit with microgroove. My Marlin CB shot well with 309 sized bullets. Personally I think they are both pretty great rifles.

DP

[Freischütz]

My Marlin wouldn't feed cartridges with 429421 crimped in the crimp groove - too long for the action.

[ColColt]

Would this boolit be too long for the Marlin 44? OAL is about 1.655" when seated at the crimp groove. It's the 43-260B from Accurate Molds.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF4160a.jpg

[Matthew 25]

Seems I'm in the minority opinion, but I love the heck out of my Win 92. I have a Win 94, and I agree that the 94 is not a smooth and silky machine. But the 92 is as smooth as I have known and has held < 2" 100 yard sandbag iron site groups (although not with lead, sorry).

[Frank46]

Better make up your mind fast. Winchester doesn't make 94's except for the really high end crown and marlin has stopped making them. Look for a older marlin or winnie w/o the crummy safety..Last show saw squat for older marlins or winnies. Frank

[calkar]

That stupid 1:38 twist was a factor for me. Mine would not stabilize cast boolits at low/med. velocitys. I could deal with the oversized .4315 bore, Thanks to Ranch Dog. The only time my Marlin shot well was when the load rattled my teeth, so it would not work for 40 rnd. matches.

[Ziptar]

My advice is for the Marlin.

I can't comment on the caliber, I bought pre-saftey micro-groove 1:32 twist Marlin 1894 44 Mag but, I sent it off and had a 45 Colt 1:20 twist microgroove barrel swapped onto it without ever firing it first.

When I started shopping for a lever I looked at allot. What made me finally choose the Marlin over the Winchester was the action.

The Marlin design is much simpler than the Winchester. Simply remover the lever screw and the rest just slips out. I also didn't like the gaping hole that opens up on the bottom of the action on the Winchester action, I could just see all kinds of stuff getting up in there.

The Marlin is just as smooth to me but its built like a brick out house.

If cost is a factor, you'll pay much less for a Marlin, the round barrelled 44 Mags are everywhere.

I picked mine up at a gun show for $300.00.

[jlchucker]

Microgroove rifling will shoot with or out shoot ballard rifling (like the Winnie has) IF you size the cast slug to .002 OVER groove diameter. Just ask any of the guys over at Marlin Owners!

T-o-m

I agree. I bought a new Marlin 45-70 around 1982 or thereabouts, the vintage just prior to the lawyer-safety. I started using cast bullets in my handloads for this same gun right away. I hadn't read anything about the microgroove/lead bullet issue at that time, but did notice that this gun shot my home-cast bullets just as straight as Speer 400's. At that time I read a few of the more popular gun magazines, and never saw anything about the microgroove issue. If your boolit fits the Marlin barrel, and your load is a good one, your Marlin with or without microgrooves will shoot the boolet pretty darn straight.

[ColColt]

I do like the looks of the Marlin but I'll need a good peep sight to exchange for the semi buck horn. Maybe a Skinner Express.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I like the short action of Marlin 1894's for they were designed for handgun cartridges.

I like the Winchester 1894 for 30-30, 38-55 type cartridges, because it was designed for longer rifle cartridges, then adopted & modified to handle short six-gun type cartridges. I guess it works OK this way and is a strong combination. But it don't feel the same as short actions to me.

I have owned 94s in 357 and 44 mag. They both worked fine. When I had the 44Mag, it was some time ago and we'd never heard of 44Special brass, so I never thried it. The Trapper I had in 357 feed and shot 38s and 357s very well. They are not as smooth as the 92s, but there is not much in it.

I wouldn't go out of my way to buy a 94 in a pistol cartridge, but the two I have owned and four that my friends own (2x44Mags, 2x44/40s) work fine. Three of the friend compete with their 94s, they are not world beaters, but the guns work ok. I used a 94 in 45Colt a year or so ago when my rifle fell apart (forgot to nip up the screw, D'Oh!) worked well.

If you think you might mount a scope in the future, the Marlin is the only option (well, apart from a late model angle eject 94). If you are happy with open sights and want a bullet proof rifle, the Win 92 or the Rossi 92 would be my choice.

I have them all, old Winchester 92s, Rossi 92s, 30/30 94s, 1866 Uberti and an 1873 Uberti (both 44/40) and a Marlin 44Mag, but do not currently own a 94 in a pistol cartridge. They all have their good points.

[ColColt]

I'd love a 1873 Uberti but they want blood for one. a Rifle in 45 Colt and 357 always seemed odd to me but not in 44 Magnum. I guess it may be in part because a lever for the 44 magnum has been out so long compared to the other two. I see a 45 Colt in a S&W 25 or a SA but a rifle? Just me I reckon.

[EDK]

I'd love a 1873 Uberti but they want blood for one. ...... I see a 45 Colt in a S&W 25 or a SA but a rifle? Just me I reckon.

Go over to lasc.us and read Glenn Fryxell's article on 1894 MARLINS...and all the others sometime later. With handloads, the 45 Colt will kick some ***, but there are dimensional problems with the cartridge in a lot of guns. There are some horror stories about how much the casing expands in a sloppy MARLIN chamber. I'd like one (or two) but would want custom barrels and chambers...ditto for a couple of RUGER Original Size VAQUEROS and BLACKHAWKS.

SAAMI specifications on 45 Colt are all over the place...then throw in the foreign guns and the antiques floating around. John Taffin gave some specs on the rim and extractor groove on older brass that explain why there are no original 1873s, etc in 45 Colt.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Unless you are a SSSA or similar shooter, where the 73 shines, I would shy away from the 73. It is a great rifle, but not overly strong, so heavy hunting loads are out. I have one in 44/40 and will use to hunt with (eventually!), but I will be using a case full of carefully drop tubeed black powder.

I use a lot of Trail Boss in mine, but when I finally work my way through my huge stock of 44 cal commercial boolits (when I just about get through them, someone gives me a heap more as I am one of the few huys with a high calibre pistol license). After that it will Big Lubes cast by me and Black powder.

You have to be so careful with these toggle operated guns, one hot load will stretch the internals (ask me how I know this, :( ). But, with the Marlin and the 92s you have a very strong gun (especially so in the 92s).