25 Auto

[dk17hmr]

Anyone shoot cast in 25 Auto?

My dad has two 25's we dont shoot them enough for the molds to even be paid for with the savings on j-bullets.

Just interested in how well they shoot. Dads are arent very accurate past arms length but they are good pocket guns, you know what they say "first rule of a gun fight...bring a gun"

I think it would be interesting to have a carbine chambered for 25 auto, might be good for rabbits and squirrels.

[lovedogs]

I really don't see how that little pipsqeak has held on for so long. It is an interesting little thing though. My guess is that you probably won't find many that are anywhere near accurate. They are itty bitty little pocket pistols, not meant for any long range shooting and not powerful enough for much of anything. Have to admit though to having the same kind of thoughts you're having. I've not wondered about rifles or game, but an economical plinker. Kind of like having a baby brother to the .30 Carbine. We gun lovers can get some real strange thoughts sometimes.

[Poygan]

I cast for the 25 with a 2 cavity mold I got from someone on this board. I haven't experimented with it too much as it is a bit dinky to cast, size and load. I suspect the factory loads are on the anemic side based on some limited penetration tests as compared to some of the 35 grain JHPs I loaded. I have a Beretta Jetfire and it does shoot surprisingly well.

Its virtue and probable longivity is due to its tiny size and concealability. True, its rather puny but its better than shouting "go away" and was a nice companion on long motorcycle trips.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I believe that the .25 Auto has held on for so long because it is a much sturdier round than the .22 LR. Rule no. 2 about gunfights, "bring a gun that feeds."

[9.3X62AL]

I came across a 25 ACP die set a while back, and got all sorts of grief from the Peanut Gallery here about handloading the caliber. Well, I don't. I do use the sizer die to neck-size 25-20 WCF cases, but that's about it. I think Curmudgeon hit the nail on the head--feeding reliability advantages over a lot of 22 Short and 22 LR pocket pistols is likely the reason for its continued popularity.

I've used a few 22 LR pocket pistols over the years--a stainless Walther TPH once went on a neck chain or hat cord under my body armor for Onion Field Insurance at work. That little critter was reliable with Remington HVHP's, and (for its size) pretty accurate. It would keep all shots inside the 8-ring of a B-27 target at 25 yards, if I kept a close eye on business. I now have a blue-steel version that needs more range time--but it ran pretty well on its maiden flight.

[wills]

Anyone shoot cast in 25 Auto?

I think it would be interesting to have a carbine chambered for 25 auto, might be good for rabbits and squirrels.

We need to see if Buckshot can build a Mauser in .25

[9.3X62AL]

Oh, please don't! He would assume I put everyone up to it, and my supply of H&I dies would dry up forthwith.

[Bent Ramrod]

I used to load for a H&R .25 Auto. The Ideal 252435 bullet wasn't so good as the nose was pretty short of "bore riding;" most of the shots keyholed. I found the 257420, sized down enough to fit in the case, a little better.

Not a lot of scope for creative handloading there; if I recall, all my loads were 0.8 gr of Bullseye or somewhere near. The H&R had a nice big sloppy chamber and a somewhat pitted bore (and no sights) but it did OK because of the very ergonomic grip and the way it held. Don't recall any jams, even with cast bullet loads. Never lost a case to full-length sizing, either; they seemed pretty stout.

Finally traded off the little H&R to somebody who already had the .32 version and needed to complete the set.

A friend had one of those Colt vest-pocket size .25's and it shot very accurately for such a small gun. Never tried anything but factory ammo in it, though.

[Bret4207]

Sad to say, but I have a lovely little Beretta 25 auto. The sucker can shoot too! The biggest problem is the sights. On the old SHooters board there was talk of converting a 10/22 and Mk2 Ruger Peestol to 25 and seeing what it would really do. Any gun is better than no gun. I've taken a few skunks, coons, cats with the 25 and 35 gr HP. It's better than a 22, but not up to the 22 mag or anywhere near the 380/38S+W/32S+W Long.

[9.3X62AL]

25 ACP in a full-sized rimfire handgun.......or a 10/22. Just dunno. I suspect the factory ammo is significantly underloaded from Browning's original idea of a bullet at 850-875 FPS. Even at full potential loadings, how much faster could a 50 grain FMJ or 35 grain JHP get going? I imagine SOMEONE has tried this somewhere, and the lack of discussion or documentation on this idea might be a measure of the experiment's outcome. The silence is deafening, in other words.

We have also discussed the re-birth of a 25 caliber rimfire with updated ballistics from the old rounds--seeing the prices of the 17 HMR and 17 Mach 2, I suspect it would die a borning from ammo costs. No doubt about the 25 rimfire cartridge's value as a small game harvester, but such uses are not commercially viable these days. Folks that want such calibers just dig up a 25-20 or 32-20, like many of us here--or adapt their methods to the 22 LR. Non-casters and non-reloaders are the probable big market for the 17 HMR, enough cheaper than the bulk-packed 223's and enough accurate for a lot of varminting. It's no equal of the 22 Hornet, but has usurped the Hornet's role to some degree. The 17 HMR's are accurate--more so than the 22 WMR, from what I've gathered--but I can still reload 223's with j-words for around the same cost as buying 17 HMR's, even less cost for the Hornet, and less yet for the 243's with castings. This last platform has been a real enjoyable project for me, yielding some of the best cast boolit/rifle accuracy I've obtained, and whacking rats with vigor.

Ok, I'll stop now. Starting to ramble here.

[fourarmed]

Back in the 30's Charles Askins, Jr. had Pachmayr convert a High Standard target pistol to .25 acp, and shot it in the "Any Centerfire" category at Perry. He won the national pistol championship that year. After that, they changed the rules so that it had to be at least .32 caliber.

[Scrounger]

When I came across that story the caliber was .22 Velodog. Here is a link to a good story about Askins by Skeeter Skelton. Well worth reading.
http://www.darkcanyon.net/The_Legend_Of_Charley_Askins.htm

[Lloyd Smale]

If i consentrate real hard my 25 berreta will put gold dots into 2 inch at 25 yards off of bags. Thats as good as some of my single action will do .

[mel]

I agree it isnt my idea of a great round either but I have a seecamp that is undetectable when worn well. It is not very powerful but I would not want to take one to the noggin from 10 feet. Better than a knife and easier to carry.
My 2 cents worth.

Mel

[dk17hmr]

My dad loads for his two 25's. One a Baur the other a Sterling. He loads them pretty hot at 1.1grs and a 50gr FMJ if I remember correctly. They both feed every round out of the mag. The load is a flame thrower and you can barely hold on to the pistol...lol

I still think is would be a fun cartridge in something like a Handi Rifle. No recoil more punch the a 22 and probably equal noise level.

If only I could find a barrel the right bore diameter and long enough to make a sleeve for my NEF.

[kywoodwrkr]

I've been reloading the 25 ACP since I don't know when.
Use to buy once fired-primer test bulk brass and there were always a bazillon 25s in the bottom, or so it seemed.
I bought a Hollywood carbide sizing die back before everyone else had them.
Use the 252435 HP as the mould of choice.
Originally converted a Herters 243 sizing lube die.
Getting a powder measure to throw the small powder charge was a trial and error method.
Have a little blue powder measure which was originally for pistol powder and I move the brass insert up enough to throw the charge I need.
And the 25 is all that powder measure does!
Actually was looking at a couple little 25s last weekend.
Just couldn't convince myself to pay the required $.
Maybe this weekend.
DaveP

[Bret4207]

The hard part with the 25 Auto, and 25 Stevens RF for that matter, is the .251 bore. When we were discussing it on Shooters the guy with the idea said he had a line on .251 liners. If one could be found a Handi rifle would be a great platform to test fire. I would think the 35 condum loads could be pushed well over 1200fps, maybe faster. Accuracy would be the main question.

I've got a guy with a Stevens Marksman 25 Stevens Long I've been trying to buy for 10 years. The 25 Auto allegedly can be fired in the Stevens, as the 32 Uto can be fired in the 32S+W Long. Extraction is iffy. Be interesting to try.

[deadguy]

I keep seeing people comment that 25 auto has a bigger punch than a .22lr, and I wonder how this could be so. How does a 35-50 grain bullet moving at 850-875 fps have more punch than a 40 grain bullet moving at 1200-1450 fps? Am I missing something here? Please clarify.

[fourarmed]

The .22 long rifle won't do that velocity out of a 2" barrel.

[fourarmed]

Scrounger, an excellent article, and much more authoritative than the one I read. Thanks.

[dk17hmr]

Well...I have found:
Liner for .25 Colt Auto, .243" bore, .250" groove, 1-14" twist, 6 grooves, 7/16" OD, per inch it cost $4.20

at

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(tmkpu0v0nhmsq2a4mahdovi5))/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=14&subID=142&styleID=483

7/16=0.4375" if a guy were to use a 45-70 barrel there would be about .0125" of play, sounds like about enough to epoxy the liner in.

Using an NEF 22" 45-70 barrel, I would cut it down to 16.5" or so to keep the price of the liner down, I cant see velocity getting much higher out of a barrel longer then 16.5 anyways.

I gotta believe it would be a great little gun built on a NEF rifle. If only I had the money, I could do all the work myself even.

[Ranch Dog]

I spent some time with my Jimenez Arms JA-25 and love the little pistol.A little polishing here and there and this $80 pistol feeds and shoots great! I have a set of Lee dies and special ordered a Factory Crimp die... I run these on my 4-hole turret with the Auto-Disk powder measurer but use the Micro-Disk instead of the standard disks. It does a great job. I use MagTec brass and the hardess part of the reloading process is simply finding and picking up the spent brass. This leads to WHY I LIKE THE 25 ACP... you can't reload a 22LR! I'm one of those that enjoy the reloading just as much if not more that the shooting!

Last year when I was ordering a group buy worth of molds and the 25 ACP Factory Crimp die I mentioned that I would like to come up with a TL boolit mold for this caliber. Lee sent me a mold they had on the shelf, a 252-50-RN. It is a two-cavity mold that shoots great. I went ahead and did the work on a TL252-50-RF and would like to see it in a 6-cavity. Actually would like them to take a 6-cavity block and make it a 9 or 12-cavity mold. Partly to generate a little heat to help the mold cast a pretty boolit. This is one of those that you need a heating pad to keep the mold hot. That little boolit just doesn't generate much heat.

[9.3X62AL]

It appears that A LOT more people are reloading the 25 ACP than I would have guessed. Not only that--we have discussion about gang molds and companion rifles to service the caliber. Are we a bevy of shooting cranks, or what?

[dk17hmr]

Shooters on crank?

Its all in good fun.

[Nueces]

dk17hmr,

THANKS for that T-of-the-W link. They have 45 Colt liners in 7/8" OD, just about exactly the largest diameter on a New Service barrel. I didn't even ask out loud! :drinks:

Mark

[Bret4207]

Doug- Way back when, before cell phones, PC's, Ramen Noodles and even before Hillary was the smartest woman in the world, we used to read something called "books". Some of these "books" were written many eons ago, way back before polyester, disco (you can google that), and safe sex. One of the terms used back then was "gun crank". Actually a "crank" was any kind of a hard core hobbyist be it a gun guy, car guy or boat guy. Thats where the term crank comes from and it might give you an idea of just how incredibly OLD Dep Al is. I mean, he's so old he remembers when you only got cartoons on Saturday mornings, when McDonalds was still working on serving their first million, when gas cost 35 cents a gallon and when you could bring a gun to school without causing the FBI to show up. He's even older than ME!

[9.3X62AL]

For the record--I have personally sold gasoline for 15 cents/regular and 19 cents/premium while working at a full serve gas station. I am able to actually use a rotary dial telephone. I have taken deer with a 30-30. I have attended a goat rope in Texas. They exist.

When you are as super-annuated as I am, you properly regard the snide remarks of youthful miscreants like Bret as the product of the combined influences of a mis-spent youth still in progress and long-term over-exposure to human frailties. I was once prone to such outbursts myself, so I fully understand. He did get the definition of "gun crank" correct, though--it was accidental, I'm sure. :-)

[Bret4207]

As usual I understand about 10% of the words Al used. I'm pretty sure thats 'cuz when Al was a boy everybody was still talkin' in Latin or Aramachic or whatever they used to talk back when Moses was still buildin' duck skiffs. He just hasn't caught up to the modern days like me. Come on Al! It' the 90's man! Get with the program.

I'm pretty sure he called me youthful though, so thanks Al!

[Lee]

Old?? Old?? Jeez, I am so depressed!!!:(
As a kid, I remember draining the gas hose on them 19cent/gallon pumps to feed the neighborhood go-cart.
Then the older neighborhood kid showed up with a - gasp! - Ruger Single Six in
22 caliber. I actually got to hold it and pull the trigger once on it! We ALL walked around with woodies for weeks after that. Din't know what they were, what to do with 'em, but walked around with them nonetheless, plotting and scheming on how to get our own peestolas...........................Lee:)

[MT Gianni]

Bret, with the term "bevy of cranks" I expect to soon hear how effective the 25 is on quail. Keep at it I'm enjoying and learning just not enough to go look for a 25 yet. Gianni.

[9.3X62AL]

No worries about me heading out to find a 25 ACP. And--there are sufficient shotguns in the safe for use on quail as needed.

/s/ Methusalah

[DanWalker]

The whole shoulder fired 25acp concept sounds VERY intriguing.
Reminds me of firing AT4 subcaliber training rounds. For those of you unfamiliar with this toy, I shall endeavor to explain. WAAAAAY back when, in the last century when I served on Active duty in USMC we had these nifty shoulder fired anti tank weapons called AT4's. Due to his diligent efforts to gut the military as thoroughly as possible, to finance his liberal domestic agenda, the soon to be first husband of the USA cut our training budgets to the point where we couldn't afford to fire live rounds in practice. Marines, used to be screwed by liberal politicians weren't deterred. Someone came up with the nifty idea of making up a 9mm single shot rifle that fit inside the launcher. It duplicated the trajectory of the missle, and cost only pennies per shot. The intriguing part is this: The sound of the instructor whacking us over the heads with his helmet when we missed the target was louder than the report from this rifle!
I can only imagine how quiet a 25acp would be from a 24"bbl!
This would be an awesome gun for hunting blue grouse and bunnies during concurrent big game seasons. You could bag a limit and never disturb the other game. It would also be great for urban pest control. Now all we need is someone to design a keith type SWC for 25 acp and we can all get to work on our rifles.
Here's another link to an outfit specializing in adapters and inserts and stuff.
http://www.mcace.com/rifleinserts.html

[dk17hmr]

We better be careful.....there are some people in this world that would use a rifle like this for evil. I can think of half a dozen of my friends, that might be tempted to use it to head shoot deer, which would be a pretty good use for it. Of course Im not talking about hunting situations but rather out the window of a 4 wheel drive.

It would be MI for deer hunting legal though.

On a side note, I have no problem with poachin to feed your family just dont be shooting my bucks, does eat better anyways.

[Ranch Dog]

The intriguing part is this: The sound of the instructor whacking us over the heads with his helmet when we missed the target was louder than the report from this rifle!

My little 25 ACP has a louder report than my 45 ACP. It downright hurts! It's on the order of my 218 Bee...

[DanWalker]

My little 25 ACP has a louder report than my 45 ACP. It downright hurts! It's on the order of my 218 Bee...
AT4 went,"BONK"........Helmet went,"WHAAAAACKKK!!!!!" I went, "OOOOOWWWW! !""@#@$%^!!!!!!"
I only missed once....

[mtngunr]

My most accurate .25's were the Bauer (Baby copy), and the '28 vintage JP Sauer und Sohn.....never grouped either at 25yds from a bench, but they were minute-of-pecan at 10yds which I found quite pleasing....I'll have another one of those vest pocket guns, one day......for fans of the vest pocket gun, if you haven't seen this great resource..... http://www.vestpockets.bauli.at/ .....hit the archive link and then thumbnails for close-ups of guns assembled, field stripped, and detail stripped, plus history......

[dk17hmr]

After all this 25 auto talk I was placin an order with Midsouth today and I noticed they had 35gr Gold Dot hollow points in .251 cal. Price was $4.87 for 100 bullets, I went to order 200 but they would only let me get one. My dad seemed happy because he sometimes carries his Baur, when he has to dress up.

He made the comment of having those at P+ levels.

I will report on them after we get and load them. Maybe Ill do an expansion test.