half jacket boolit molds

[0802]

Can someone educate on half jacket molds? I saw some old half-jackets for sale and it piqued my interest. I see a few references on here and a couple in the internet in general, but not much on using the molds. Didn't seem to find anyone who still makes half-jacket molds and don't recall anyone actively selling half jackets now. Why did these fall our of favor? Inability to size to desired diameter? Were boolits cast without the jacket and the jacket added later (like a GC) or was the bullet poured with the jacket already inside? Don' t really have an interest in producing these, but was interested nonetheless.

Thanks,
Josh

[ron brooks]

I think they were for the core and nose of half jacketed bullets then swagged into the half jacket, but it wouldn't b the first time I was wrong.

Ron

[singleshotbuff]

0802,

I may be wrong (was once LOL), but I think the half jacket molds produced basically cores that were then swaged into the half jackets. At least some of them that I have read about. I doubt it is something that could be done on a lubri-sizer press, would probably require a HEAVY DUTY reloading press or a dedicated bullet swaging press. I'm sure someone with more knowledge in this area will come along soon and set me straight, this is just my $0.02 from what I can remember.

I'd like to follow this thread, as I have always had an interest in swaging Jword bullets. I have just never wanted to lay out the cash for the equipment.

SSB

[singleshotbuff]

lol Ron, great minds think alike. Even about being wrong LOL.

SSB

[ron brooks]

Single shot,

:-) That was just what I was thinking. You must be one smar person to think like you do (like me) :-)

Ron

[schutzen]

Corbin sells dies for swaging full or half-jacketed bullets. They use cut or cast cores swaged into a copper jacket using a heavy weight reloading press. I used an RCBS Rock Chucker and it did fine for
.357's and .44's. The only reason I don't swage jacketed bullets today is the cost of the jackets. They are almost as expensive as a jacketed bullet. If you buy jacketed bullets in larger quanities
(10K+), they can even be cheaper than the jackets for swaging.

[0802]

OK -- I didn't catch the part about swaging in the thread I ready, but saw references to it elsewhere.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=1883

Look at post #20 -- not much info regarding the molds themselves . . .

I'll do a quck search on swaging to get up to speed before I ask for help on that. But I'm still wondering why no one does it anymore (or do they)?

Later . . .

OK, found this current thread and I think I've gotten this completely answered. At least the answers are in the thread, now I've just to understand all the information.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=10172&highlight=swaging

Really good information on this site. Appreciate the fact that no question is dumb and egos are small. Not common other places I spend less time in.

Thanks,
Josh

[floodgate]

0802:

One of the first proponents of the half-jackets was Jim Harvey (as his "Half-Jacket Jugular" bullets) who also promoted the "Prot-X-Bore" zinc washer base bullets. If you'll keep an eye out for Lyman moulds Nos. 357511, 357512, 429510, or 429513 on eBay, these cast the cores in .38/.357 and .44 Mag./Spl. (check the Lyman Bullets pages under "Research and Data" on CASTPICS), and you MAY be able to squeeze them together in an ordinary lube-sizer; Lyman listed them as gas-check bullets in their Second-Edition "Cast Bullet Handbook". Speer was the first big-time maker to promote these, around 1960. One problem with the early designs was that the groove-diameter belt on the core against which the HJ cup set was first into the bore, and without any lube present, severe leading was the result. Later designs reduced the diameter of the core so that no lead was in contact with the bore, and these seemed to work OK - but then you're in Corbin territory, with BIG $$$. Still worth tinkering with, though; maybe Lee Liquid Alox would solve the problem. If you get into this, let us know how it works out. I think "half-length gas checks" are still legal here, provided you cast the cores!

floodgate

[Bullshop]

Say fellas if any of you are interested I ran a C&H swage kit here a couple weeks ago but got no takers. Its a press complete with all tools for 45, 357, and 9mm. There are two 45 dies and also includes core cutter. I gave a last call and still no takers so its now on ebay. Asking $125.00
BIC/BS

[leftiye]

The drawback that I remember abut half jacketed bullets is the front bore diameter part is lead against the bore= leading. Trick is to get the two die swaging set that forms the point or ogive, and use jackets that turn the corner onto the nose before ending. That's just another configuration for swaged jword bullets (half jacketed).

As an aside, speer used to (might still) make a half jacketed semi wadcutter bullet. The ones that I fired through a pinion juniper here in Utah (we call em cedars= real hard wood) didn't deform atall, some kind of hard lead core!

[Lloyd Smale]

if anyone comes accross a .41 core mold please let me know. Those speer half jackets are one of the best 41 bullets on the market.
The drawback that I remember abut half jacketed bullets is the front bore diameter part is lead against the bore= leading. Trick is to get the two die swaging set that forms the point or ogive, and use jackets that turn the corner onto the nose before ending. That's just another configuration for swaged jword bullets (half jacketed).

As an aside, speer used to (might still) make a half jacketed semi wadcutter bullet. The ones that I fired through a pinion juniper here in Utah (we call em cedars= real hard wood) didn't deform atall, some kind of hard lead core!

[Bass Ackward]

Why did these fall our of favor? Thanks,
Josh


Josh,

These half jacketes had to be run wide open. The fear was that the lead core would seperate and the light jacket which still had the friction of copper, would remain in the bore undetected. Speer still warns of this in their manuals, so apparently, it did happen to someone.

[Bullshop]

Lloyd Smale
I have core molds and lead wire but rairly use them. What I do is use a Lee six in the weight I want and re swage them. This gives several options. You can change the cal., 44 to 45 works good. You can change the design from solid to HP, and change a PB to GC. You can prelube to keep the grooves open. If your shooting a 41 it is real easy to use a Lee 6 in 40 cal as a core mold. You could prelube then swage with just a gas check for a realy nice 41 cal boolit. Using a swage with your existing molds realy adds versatility. The only problem you may have is finding a Lee design in 40 cal that would be heavy enough.
BIC/BS

[Swagerman]

C-H sells this stuff in half jacket, and even the swaging dies.

They use to sell some weird zinc washer bases that were to be swaged onto the bottom of the cast bullet...but I could never get them to work at staying attached.

Swagerman

[jhalcott]

NEI or Veral Smith made a mold that used a short piece of tubing that was inserted into the mold before the lead was poured in. It was a lot of trouble, as the tubing had to be HOt when the lead was poured. The dia was 3/8th" and length was barely 1/2". A couple guys bought them in .375 cal., one of them probably STILL owns his.

[Bullshop]

0802
The core molds I have cast only a straight cylender that is slightly under the diameter of the swage die. Some of the molds are adjustable, and some cast cores are adjusted to weight using the core cutter. Some of my nonadjustable molds give two perfect cores when cut precisley in two.
A smooth sided mold looking like a boolit was likely to be used with the tubing cast in.
BIC/BS

[floodgate]

Lloyd:

Lyman never made - so far as I know - any of those Harvey HJJ core moulds in .41; they faded from the market before the .41 Magnum appeared. But this would be a real easy lathe boring job, starting with an old, smaller single-cavity mould, starting from the dimensions of the half-jackets - IF you can find any of those. No. I don't attempt reboring moulds, but others here do.

floodgate

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive been doing just that. Casting .38 bullets the weight i want and then swaging them in the .41 die. I was just conserned there would be voids in the bullets. Im glad to hear it works well.
Lloyd Smale
I have core molds and lead wire but rairly use them. What I do is use a Lee six in the weight I want and re swage them. This gives several options. You can change the cal., 44 to 45 works good. You can change the design from solid to HP, and change a PB to GC. You can prelube to keep the grooves open. If your shooting a 41 it is real easy to use a Lee 6 in 40 cal as a core mold. You could prelube then swage with just a gas check for a realy nice 41 cal boolit. Using a swage with your existing molds realy adds versatility. The only problem you may have is finding a Lee design in 40 cal that would be heavy enough.
BIC/BS

[Bullshop]

Prolly less chance of any voids going from 40 to 41 than from 38 to 41. The 40's as cast should give .007 to .008" clearence to enter the die easily and swage up easily. Still finding the right weight 40 is the problem.
BIC/BS