SMLE No.4 mk1 ,45ACP conversion

[badge176]

So I had been scheming toward a .45 ACP conversion to be built on a small ring mauser action with a barrel and magazine well adaptor from Rhineland Arms. A friend of mine was aware of my plan and was unashamedly jealous of my having found the barrel kit at all. This same friend is well aware of my love of the SMLE (I have a couple), and when he stumbled upon a No.4Mk1 conversion (on a Savage made "US Property" lend lease action to boot!) he snapped it up. Shortly thereafter a partial trade of my action, barrel kit and stock with a little cash to boot, and the SMLE (or really Short, 1911 pistol Magazine Lee Enfiend) was MINE!!! I wears tastefully simple military wood -shortened (sporter-like fore end with no upper handguards), and stock sights (might need some tinkering with those down the road once loads are figured out)

So if the .303 action can gracefully support the pressures of the .303 British rifle cartridge, and the case head of the .45 ACP is fully supported in the chamber (unlike original design 1911s), then am I correct that I could reasonably expect to safely use .45ACP +P? How about .45 Super with its beefed up web?

I had looked into sending the planned small ring mauser to Johnny Rowland of TX fame for chambering to the .460 Rowland and the pressure limits were compatible (but not overly generous for margin). Rowland seemed excited to see what it'd push em out at!

The .303 runs at about 49,000 PSI and the Rowland at 40,000 PSI. I recognize that I don't need to make a .44mag outta the .45 ACP, but I would like to push this one a bit (safely) to increase the utility of the carbine beyond mere plinking (and "home defense"?!). I even considered it potentially being a low recoiling brush deer rifle (50 yards at tops) for my "aspiring little hunters" in the family (heavy gun + fat Boolits going not super fast= less recoil). I'm also excited about the variety of CBs that I cast for the .45 Colt that I could attempt to run in this little bolt carbine (SWC, RFN, etc) that a 1911 might just choke on!

I was going to post photos but the camera screwed up my SD card ("locked" or "unreadable"), so that will have to wait... But dang all is it pretty (in a homely, military sort of way)!

[longbow]

That might be interesting especially if you have enough length for the 480 grain .45 Caliber Subsonic Bullet shown here about 1/3 down the page:

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/SubsonicBullet.html

I have been thinking about something like that in .44 mag. I guess rifling twist may be an issue for such a long boolit at low velocity.

Should be low noise, low recoil and pretty big thump on the receiving end if doable.

Just a thought.

Longbow

[Four Fingers of Death]

Now, I have a nicely sporterised SMLE that has nice enough wood and a reasonable barrel and I need it like a hole in the head as I have another nice SMLE sporter with a low powered scope. I also have squillions of 45ACP cases and commercial cast boolits and only only one Ruger convertible revolver. 1911 mags make this project easier than a lot of other conversions.

[303Guy]

My theory is that bolt fase thrust should be similar so internal case diameter ratio needs to be considered. Force (Thrust) = Pressure X Internal Case Base Area. However, do take into consideration the rate of pressure rise. The faster the pressure rises the lower the peak pressure should be. To do with shock loading.

[Larry Gibson]

I've a Rhineland conversion on a M98 action and have done 3 others (2 M98s and 1 M93). A friend also has a conversion on the SMLE and he shoots +P .45 ACP ammo in it all the time. The psi of even +P ammo is pretty mild and compares to .303 load with 180-220 gr cast bullets using "the load" with Red, Dot or loads using Unique, etc. powders. I wouldn't be conserned about shooting .45 ACP in the SMLE at all. His took a bit of tweaking to get the feeding right (they all do) but his works very nicely.

Here's a photo of mine and a "Chinese Officers M98 .45 ACP" I did.

Larry Gibson

[leadman]

At one time I had a custom contender 18" barrel in 45acp. I was amazed at the velocity obtainable in this barrel. I was using a compressed load of Blue Dot with a 185gr HP and got over 1,800 fps easily.

My 200gr SWC load for my 1911 gained 300 fps when shot in the Contender. So just and increase in the barrel length will give you plus p velocities without any extra powder.

[Von Dingo]

It looks like Rhineland arms is back in business. Any word on their new products?

[badge176]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35296&stc=1&d=1314579148

[badge176]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35297&stc=1&d=1314579559

[nicholst55]

On a related note, some 8-10 years ago a company was supposed to be making a repro of the DeLisle carbine in .45 ACP, complete with integral suppressor. Does anyone remember what happened to them?

[Four Fingers of Death]

On a related note, some 8-10 years ago a company was supposed to be making a repro of the DeLisle carbine in .45 ACP, complete with integral suppressor. Does anyone remember what happened to them?

The fun Police would have put them out of business!

[curator]

I have a Rhineland .45ACP conversion on a No4Mk2 action. A fun little carbine and accurate too. Using .45ACP+P brass I do puch the envelope some using .255/280 grain .45 Coltslugs up to about 1200 fps. I don't see much point pushing faster as I have carbines chambered in .44 RemMag and .45 Colt. I really made it so I could teach rifle shooting at my range which is only rated for .22rf of handgun-level ammo. "Pistol-caliber" (.32-20, .44-40) rifle is allowed but not centerfire rifle rounds like .22 Hornet, .223Rem, etc.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_13864e5bd2ddb9caf.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1967)

[Artful]

On a related note, some 8-10 years ago a company was supposed to be making a repro of the DeLisle carbine in .45 ACP, complete with integral suppressor. Does anyone remember what happened to them?

you must be thinking of http://www.valkyriearms.com

The company filed bankruptcy, the owner is known to be a shady character.
Lots of people have been scammed by her and lost a fair amount of money.
Her later work has a poor rep for quality, especially the DeLisles.
I see the website says Valkyrie Arms is now under new management.
I'd be very careful if I was interested in doing business with them.

I bought my SMLE conversion parts from
http://www.specialinterestarms.com/

Richard also has made a few Integrally suppressed guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV-PYKAlx3E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiZ8tqeHOfk
compare to original
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMei19G_hqA

Had to add picture of my work in progress
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/FAL/SMLE45SIAConversion_zpsd36e4ef1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/FAL/SMLE45SIAConversion_zpsd36e4ef1.jpg.html)