Universal Clay same as Unique in .45-70?

[GrayFox]

In one of the recent posts a load of 16.5 grains of Unique was said to be a good shooting load in the .45-70. Would the same or a close load of Universal Clays work as well? I've had great loads using this powder in .45 Colt. Once fired new brass looks like it was unfired--no soot inside or out. Also, if it would work would a dacron puff add consistency to the load? This would be for hunting, not a carefully handled load shot off a bench which would be one reason for the dacron.. Thanks for any input. GF

[35remington]

Around 16 grains should be a top load with a 405 cast bullet of conventional style that seats similarly to the Lee version. I'd start a grain or two low and stop once my chrono hit 1250 or so with that bullet weight.

Do yourself a favor. Try several rounds with the powder near the primer, then near the bullet when shooting over the chronograph. Report back your findings.

That should let you know where to go regarding velocity variation and its significance. Here's a hint.......I find Universal surprisingly position sensitive in my loadings, more so than Unique. See if you experience the same thing.

[Hammerhead]

I love Universal but it doesn't seem to like low load densities. I've had good results in .44 spl, but that's as large of a case as I use it in. It excels in small, high pressure cartridges like the 10mm, .40s&w and 9mm.

In .44 spl I use a fiber wad under the bullet to take up a little of the extra space, seems to help.

If you try it in .45-70 use a firm crimp and consider magnum primers.

If you don't get complete burn you'll know it because your gun will be full of 'corn flakes'.

[Rocky Raab]

I like Universal, also. I find it to be a wee bit (perhaps 5%) faster than Unique in MOST loadings. It also does not work as well in low density loadings - such as the now-world-famous "10.0 Unique Cast Bullet Load" we all love.

But when loaded to its own likes, it is wonderfully easy to dispense, accurate, clean, and economical.

[Hammerhead]

I find it to be a wee bit (perhaps 5%) faster than Unique in MOST loadings.

That jibes with the article in Handloader. It said basically that the reason Universal is listed as slower than Unique in burn rate charts is that Universal is slower in shot shells. In metallic cartridges it said Universal is faster.

I'm also wondering if it isn't peak pressure that determines how well Universal burns and not case volume because in .45acp I get a lot of unburned powder with Universal. With .44 spl I have to load it stiff to avoid the corn flakes. With the high pressure pistol cartridges, it always burns completely and super clean.

[Rocky Raab]

ALL powders have a design "window" of pressures. Run them too low (as with reduced charges) and you get unburnt kernels, soot and all the other familiar symptoms. Larger case volume require more powder to get within that window, assuming all other factors are equal.

Some powders still burn with reasonable consistency even though they don't burn completely. 2400 is a good example of that. Some people take the simple but incorrect step of using a hotter primer to "fix" the dirty burning. That's a poor fix, because it adds pressure without adding gas volume to sustain that pressure. The right fix is to just add a bit more powder. If that results in too much velocity for a given load, one should switch to a faster powder, almost all of which are designed with a lower pressure window.