What caliber is for me?

[birdadly]

Hi Booliteers. I'm bored at work and love reading the forums here. I would like some direct feedback and to give you another place to chat about guns :) I do hesitate asking, as I don't want a Ford/Chevy thing, but moreso just your opinions in regard to what I'm looking for. Here goes!

Background:
I don't shoot a lot, 2-4 times/month. I shoot semi-auto handguns, .22 up to 45ACP. I shoot some trap, but just for fun. I own one rifle, a Remington 700CDL 280 for deer hunting, and have only shot it at paper and bottles about 25 times.

Want:
I want a second rifle. I believe I would like a bolt action, but am not against semi-auto. This will only be for target shooting at the moment. Price-wise, under $700 + scope.

Use:
1) I want this rifle/caliber to be accurate mostly at 100 and 200 yards, with the ability of 300 yards as well. A range I recently joined has 100 & 200 yard paper targets, and 200 & 300 yard gong targets.

2) I don't want a lot of recoil. I'd love to look through the scope, pull the trigger, and never take my eye off the target as the boolit hits right where I'm aiming! (obviously I have some leeway here, it can kick some, but minimal perhaps if possible at this yardage?)

3) I want to cast and reload this boolit. (currently I only reload 45ACP but want to learn rifle reloading)

This is less about brand and more about caliber, as I don't have much background with rifles except for what I read and hear. I'm guessing the answer will be something around a .223? I suppose the recoil issue may be gun related, like does a heavy barrel help with that?

As mentioned, I've read about this sort of stuff, and there's plenty more for me to read, but this time I just wanted a little direct feedback. I've tried to think about any questions you may have for me, and tried to answer them, so I think I will click 'submit' now :) Thank you all so much for your time! -Brad :coffeecom:

[stubshaft]

308 Winny

[waksupi]

I am personally a big .35 caliber fan. That being said, if you would want a low dollar rifle, I would look for a surplus 8X57. I do believe it is one of the best commonly available chamberings available for cast, being not terribly overbore as some are. They are accurate, lots of boolit designs available, and as I say, they are cheap. Add a scope, and it will do all you are looking for, plus it would be a very effective North American hunting rifle if you choose to use it for that. Stick with heavier weight boolits, for best results.

[MBTcustom]

Just my two cents. I love 300winmag for shooting just like you describe. I dont mind the intense recoil at all, but I'm a pretty big fella and it aint nothin compared to .416remmag.
While I was reading your post, I was reminded of a rifle that a guy at the range had. He saw I had a chronograph and asked if I would shoot his rifle through it. I asked him what it was chambered in, he told me it was 300 weatherby magnum. I benched the rifle and prepared myself to be stomped. I was amazed at the lack of recoil. He had a compensator on that rifle and I tell you that I could shoot that rifle off my nose with no ill effect. We're talking .22 magnum recoil!
So I would recommend you buy a savage bolt action in 300winmag and send it out for the compensator.
The down side to this recommendation is that you will always need ear protection when shooting this rifle. That same guy was shooting that same rifle in the booth next to me and when he would shoot, my rifle jumped off target from the energy being thrown out the sides of his rifle.

[GRUMPA]

I think I would go with a 30-06 from the stand point that it's just so darn common. Last I looked for j-words their was over 250 varieties to choose from. But like any choice in life can be best solved with trying something out before you buy kind of a thing.

By that I would ask around, a friend or someone that has something your looking for and shoot theirs. Like a lot of people here I let other people shoot mine but I'm right with them when they do, just because they are curious and/or are interested in something of the same caliber.

30-06 brass can be had for a song in relation to other choices out their. And as far as recoil is concerned, I don't care who you are their will always be that flinch-ittus when your using something your not used to.

My personal choices are simple, I go with what is very common. Nothing will be hard to find or hard to get and the combinations for loading are thru the roof.

[waksupi]

My objection to the larger case capacities, is that they are all over bore. Definitely not the best for cast boolit shooting, where we want as near to a full case of slow powder as possible, for best results.
I have found the .358 Winchester nearly perfect on bore size, with my most accurate loads all being pretty much full, to slightly compressed loads.

[GH1]

If you're looking for an accurate bolt gun for not much money perhaps a Misin-Nagant is what you need.
GH1

[Kraschenbirn]

Uhmm...for someone who's going to be a beginner at both rifle reloading and boolit casting (at the same time), I'd suggest either the .308 WCF or the 7mm-08. Used rifles are fairly common in both calibers, brass is plentiful and relatively inexpensive (you can easily form 7-08 from milsurp 7.62x51), there's a wide selection of boolit moulds for both, and either is pretty straightforward to reload.

Bill

[67bear]

257 Roberts?

[izzyjoe]

i personally would say the 8x57, cause it's a great cal. and as waksupi said those rifles are easy to find. but if you are a beginer, i'd say that a 308 or 30-06 would do you very well. brass is more common. so you would do well with a savage in 308, or 30-06.

[bruce drake]

257 Roberts?

I own a 257 Roberts chambered rifle (a rebarreled VZ-24 Mauser) and its a great rifle to shoot cast and jacketed in.

Lyman has a 100gr mold for the rifle and sometimes you can find older Herters copies in 85gr and 100gr size bullets as well.

Commercial Jacketed is a limited to 85gr and 117gr for varmints and deer respectively.

I will put a plus one into this chambering. Its the chambering I taught my wife to shoot on as well when she stepped up from 22 Rimfire.

Bruce

[white eagle]

I have to go along with the 308
fits yer parameters to a "T"
perfect for cast and easy on the shoulder
and pocket book

[birdadly]

1. Thank you all for your time thus far!

2. I am really surprised (from lack of knowledge I'm sure) of these bigger calibers most are mentioning. I really thought I'd be down near a very small caliber like the 223 for a lighter-recoil, paper-puncher like this.

'Easy' would be okay, as yep I'll be a beginner at both reloading and casting for rifle. I like the idea of the 308 as it's common. A friend mentioned that it's what military snipers use? If so I guess that's a neat 'plus'. I was just assuming it packed a punch though.

I know what I need to do. A friend once showed me a list of calibers that included, something like, their force, or recoil, or felt recoil, or something... that would put these calibers into perspective for me I believe as some I am very unfamiliar with. (257 Robers just sounds like a cool caliber!)

161: I'm not afraid of the consequences of this venture!! 6 years ago a buddy and I each bought our first handguns as a new hobby. A year later we each bought a shotgun... he ended there, but now I'm up to 6 with no intent on stopping! -Brad :mrgreen:

[bowfin]

I really thought I'd be down near a very small caliber like the 223 for a lighter-recoil, paper-puncher like this.

I think the deal breaker for the .223 is the boolit casting requirement when it comes to people recommending it to you. Lots of people can and do cast for the .22 centerfires, but I think there is a lot less margin of error in small caliber, high velocity cartridges.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i would get in ENCORE in 308 win

[cobbmtmac]

birdadly,

I recommend 30-06 or the 308W. If you check with the old timmers on this board , I believe that you will find the cosensus is; larger caliburs such as .30 and .35 are much easier to cast, than the small caliburs such as, any 22 or 24 cal.

I have 5, 30-06's, 2 Springfield 03's and 3 Win. model 54's, I shoot all of them with a 200 gr .cast boolit, I happen to have an Ohaus mould 30-190-S that I love. But a very common mould is a Lyman 311284 and there are several others. Anyway, I use 16grs. of Alliant 2400 powder and they are all very accurate, in fact actually more accurate than I am. I do shoot an inch or better 5 shot group at 100yds. from time to time.
This load gives you around 1600 fps. and a very light recoil.

There are a lot of bolt action 06's out there. Win, Rem, Savage, Ruger and more. Also, there are plenty of old Military such as Springfield 03's and 03-A3's. Sometimes a good sportized one can be the ticket.

Just my 2-cents worth,

[JDFuchs]

I will throw out my suggestions. I want to say open you mind to a marlin 30-30 It can do quite well for your requirements very easily available for both brass and a great rifle can be had for less then your $700 range. But a 308 will do just as well if you want a bolt gun. Since you will be casting reloading them for yourself you can make as light of loads as you want. I have 30-30 rounds that compare to 22lr in recoil. When i bought my 45-70 I grabbed a box of factory ammo to try it out that day and was about ready to sell it until I made some far more kind hand loads with Trail Boss.

I would suggest the 308 over the 30-06 since it has a smaller case capacity. So it can be loaded lightly while still filling most of the case.

[Wayne Smith]

I'm gonna agree with JD most of the way, but suggest you look for a bolt 30-30. You have a cartridge with close to the optimal case capacity for cast boolits, a longer neck to hold the boolit, the ability to use all nose styles, and the stiffness of the bolt action. My second choice would be a single shot in the same caliber. The down side is that they are not common except possibly in the Contender/Encore platform.

If you want to go to a greater capacity round look at the 30-40 Kraig but you have brass availbility issues, or the 260 Remington, but you have limited choices in boolits.

[birdadly]

Some nice new info, thx gentlemen. I'm more than happy NOT to go with a 223, as yes those boolits would be small wouldn't they. A friend is also getting a rifle for the exact same reason I am (to shoot together), but he is limited in gun price, ammo price, no reloading, no casting. So he plans to go with a 223 and buy his ammo from the store (cheap stuff).

I decided to buy guns (going forward) that I can cast for (as I'm having a blast doing it). So now I realize this has me in the direction of a larger caliber rifle, which is fine. But this brings up a possible valid point... if I go up to say, a 308 or a 30-06, those are just as 'big' as my 280 for the most part correct? One day I hope to cast for my 280 so I can hunt with cast... should I just do that now and for the reasons I've stated in this thread? Or would a 280 shoot/feel a ton different than a 308 would?

Granted then I can't buy a new gun! -Brad

[shdwlkr]

From what you have stated for use of this new rifle and by the way I would look for a good used one before getting a brand new one.
I would look at 257 roberts, 308, 270, 30-06, 280, 30-30, 358, as they will all meet your needs and if you decide to do more that targets they are up to that also.
Don't let anyone tell you this caliber or that caliber is better for you as they don't know you as well as you know you.
For a long time many tired to get me to buy a magnum caliber, well I had one as a kid growing up and stupidly sold it or traded it and have never found one I could shoot worth a darn since so I just don't buy them.
I have also found for me shooting beyond 300 yards just isn't going to happen so I look for calibers that work in the under 300 yard range for most things and if I want to shoot farther I work on how to do it with what I have.

[Larry Gibson]

+ another for the .308W. Find an older used rifle with a 12" twist barrel. That was the standard for many years and there are lot's of different makes. If you are just bench shooting you might find an older match rifle with that twist also. The heavier match rifle will allow shooting off the bench and seeing the hole appear in the target given a proper scope and load. That twist will work best for cast bullets, especially when you go to 300 yards.

Larry Gibson

[snuffy]

Hey Brad, if you'd like to try a rifle you already have, I have a Lyman 287405B, it's a loverin style boolit.(Loverin style boolits have multiple small lube grooves, looks like you're shooting a miniature culvert.) :grin:

This one casts a 140 grain semi-spire point boolit. I can loan you the mold, or make some boolits sized to .284, lubed with carnuba red. Then, if it works out for you, you could get a sizer and make some yourself. It's a gas check boolit.

I used it once for my .280, didn't stick with it, but I got it to 1.5" @ 100 after load development. Load? It was 25 years ago, I lost any notes I had in 4 moves since then.

Let me know if you're interested, I'll cast some up or get the mold to you.(Guy's we live about 25 miles from each other).

[MBTcustom]

One day I hope to cast for my 280 so I can hunt with cast... should I just do that now and for the reasons I've stated in this thread? Or would a 280 shoot/feel a ton different than a 308 would?
I think you could easily do everything you are trying to do with your 280.
The 280 remington is a 30-06 necked down to accept a .284 diameter projectile. The realy cool thing about this rifle, is that they managed to shave off some recoil but kept the knockdown power about the same as 30-06. I just talked to one of our contractors that shoots this cartridge and he loves it.
There is no reason in the world why you could not get this rifle to do everything you are trying to do. The one problem I see is mold selection. You will always have more choices in .308 caliber than any other. That being said, I just looked on midwayusa and they have lots of molds for this caliber rifle in all the most popular configurations so you probably can't go wrong.
One thing I would caution you about is shooting lead in a barrel that has been a dedicated copper jacket slinger. Use a high ammonia cleaner like Sweets 7.62 to remove all the copper before you start running it with lead boolits.

If you get this rifle going and are ready for the next step, I would like to second Waksupi's recommendation for a .35 caliber rifle. They are definitely a diferent class rifle than the .308, and they are an absolute joy to cast/paperpatch for.

[cwskirmisher]

One thing you said in your original post was that you wanted another rifle. The 280 is definitely one you already have that should meet all of your criteria. Another I would suggest is the .243. Not so small that is is difficult to mold boolits, and there are several good molds available. The caliber has pip-squeak recoil, even with the heavier boolits in the caliber (~100+grains), and is a very accurate round - certainly has potential to be sub-MOA at 200 yards. The 6mm caliber has been a top choice for many BR shooters. It can reach out to 300 easily without significant drop as it has a fairly flat tragectory when loaded to max velocities. Not sure that's so true with Pb rounds, but it is still worth considering.
Certainly all of the recommedations that have been suggested are workable - the .30 cals specifically have the widest flexibility (30-06 and 308) and selection of rifles available. I have loaded 110 grain 'plinkers' in 30-06 and it's like shooting a .22LR. So there is lots of room for experimentation. Hard to beat the .30 cal versatility. But for something different, the .257R is cool, and I can't fault any of the others - but I wouldn't go for the Magnums, that just defeats the purposes you set out in your post - YMMV.

[rond]

.243 comes to mind as a light recoil round, also 7mm-08.

[Mk42gunner]

Brad,

For what you are wanting, a heavy barrelled .308 Winchester fits the bill perfectly. You can buy a new Savage with a decent scope for that price, or probably find one fo the older Remington 700 Varmint models with a good scope on it already.

One thing that hasn't been blatantly stated is that most cast rifle loads are loaded considerably lighter in velocity and recoil than factory level jacketed loads.

One good thing about going used on the rifle is that you save a little money to spend on molds and other equipment.

Robert

[birdadly]

I had to take yesterday off as it was my birthday! But now I got to read your latest thoughts and again thanks!

My 280 IS a beautiful rifle and that's one reason I bought it. It's last year's 700 CDL special edition, beautiful wood with stainless steel fluted barrel. I surely wouldn't mind using it MUCH more than I am at this point.

My thought was that I would want a smaller caliber for more repititious shooting. I actually didn't know what 'Mk42' said, that cast loads are lighter generally than factory. So perhaps my 280 would even feel like a lighter shot then, which would be cool.

Snuffy. Perhaps I should take you up on your offer. I can start with, and learn, on my 280. I do like the idea of a smaller caliber, and as 'cwskirmisher' mentioned, I DID say I want a second rifle :) So while learning on my 280 I can look into the other calibers you've all mentioned. I'll send you a PM and we can discuss what to do, thanks so much for your offer!

'goodsteel', thanks for mentioning the bore cleaner. The gun has only seen about 25 rounds, but yes, all factory rounds, so maybe I should clean it out.

Please feel free to keep the comments coming as this will simply be one more place for me to read and learn about rifle calibers ;) -Brad

[wiljen]

300 Savage or 35 Remington both meet your requirements and neither is particularly heavy recoiling. I would go for the 300 savage as the range of molds available in 30 caliber is 2nd to none.

[357maximum]

My take on what you are wanting to have in a new playtoy violates a few of the parameters in your original post, but here it goes anyway.


For a fun, low recoil, cheap to shoot cast boolit plinker that allows for seeing the boolit hit.........


I recommend the Thompson Center Encore/Contender platform. Buy the rifle frame/wood and then have Match Grade Machine (old virgin valley) make you a 1 in 16 twist 20 or 22 inch FULL BULL BARREL in 38 special or 357 mag. You will have a blast with it, there is a gadzillion moulds available, and you will learn alot about trajectory/wind drift. Not to mention just having a good ol time. A 38/357 "rifle" in the right hands is a very capable 400 yard target gun as long as your range has good overhead clearance to allow for the rainbow the boolit will travel. A 357 mag rifle is also very potent deer medicine at short ranges if you ever decide to stoke the rifle a bit. Truly dual purpose......if you needed another excuse :kidding: .

I have a heavy barrelled 38 special rifle built on an H&R single shot frame that a dear friend built for me and I love it for doing exactly what you are thinking about doing. I am forever indebted to him for turning one of my dreams into a reality. :smile:

My 38 special rifle can almost be reloaded while the boolit is in flight on 400 yard targets when down loaded properly.

Pop............................................... ...................................BONG ;)


An old remington 788 in 30/30 would be my second choice for your "WANTS" if they had not somehow become a "collectors item".

[Wayne Smith]

One of the reasons I mentioned the 30-30 is that thousands of them are available used, but most of them are lever actions. I did find one Savage bolt in 30-30 on Gunbroker, and they are frequently available. The smallest I currently cast for is .25. I can't imagine using it for deer with a cast boolit, but it would be useful for many other uses.

I'm having a lot of fun with my Steyr 1895 models in 8x47R and the Frankenstein boolit at 2300fps. Very light, handy straight pull bolt with a 19"(?) barrel on it. Not a light load, but very adequate if it is adequate enough. Using cheap military powder as well. Inexpensive rifle and very inexpensive ammo as well.

[superior]

30-30

[Moonie]

I love my AR-15 in 6.8 SPC, powder capacity is about the same as the 30-30 it is ideal for shots under 400 yards has little recoil, really not much more than the AR-15 in 5.56.

[birdadly]

If you're looking for an accurate bolt gun for not much money perhaps a Misin-Nagant is what you need.
GH1

Well gang, I unexpectedly bought myself a cheap plinker Birthday gift this weekend. I was at Gander Mtn. looking over their rifles, no intentions of buying anything, about to leave and then told the sales guy (a nice fella that I've spoke to twice now about guns and reloading) "I don't know anything about that gun (pointed to a Mosin Nagant) but let me look at that and please tell me about it". Long story short, I walked out the door with it.

They've sparked my interest in the past simply because of their age I suppose. So they had them on sale for $99. It came with some goodies: 2 mag pouches, sling, bayonet and an oil can. The serial numbers seemed to match (maybe not the bayonet) so I figured that was good. The barrel showed rifling so figured that was good too.

Anyway, so about this thread I've started. I love all of your opinions and I thank you for them! I am currently leaning towards this path: I'm taking 'snuffy' up on his offer to make me up some boolits for my 280, so I'm going to learn and work with that rifle to get me into rifle reloading and casting.

At the same time I'm going to be shooting and saving up for reloading/casting for this Mosin Nagant (assuming it's feasible to cast/reload for 7.62x54R, which I'll start reading about hopefully soon). It's a totally new caliber for me. The only thing I know is it was tough to find ammo for it yesterday. Gander had some steel-cased and Cabelas had 2 odd-brand brass to choose from. I bought one box of the brass kind.

But, this also means that I will be saving up for a 3rd rifle for next year and I'm, currently, leaning towards the 308 which a lot of you have mentioned, the majority actually. I think it's because I still feel young in this hobby, and in time, I will venture out to different calibers not only just to own them, but because I will be more familiar with them and know what they do and exactly what I want.

Thank you all! -Brad :-P

[Rocky Raab]

Clearly, butt-ugly rifles don't bother you ;) so while you're looking for yet another rifle, keep a Savage 340 in .30-30 foremost on your list. It's not only a superb cast-bullet cartridge, but offers a much larger variety of moulds - all of which can be loaded for the 340, regardless of nose shape.

[bruce drake]

Go to the Military Rifles section of this forum and you will be amazed at how many people here own and shoot those Mosin-Nagants. Boxer primed brass can sometimes be hard to find but once you lay in a supply, shooting and reloading cast bullets will give you a very long brass life.

Once you know the proper sized bullet to fit your rifle's barrel, you'll enjoy shooting the rifle.

Bruce

[acoop101]

I know I'll probably start a s^^^ storm but worth considering is something in 7.62x39 it is still cheap and it can be had in a bolt gun or in a semi-auto. WHile reloadable brass does demand a premium it is not as rare as hens teeth though.

[badbob454]

seconds on the 7.62x39 or a 308 say 110 gr boolit but...er hmmfp i was thinking of the 223 or a 22 hornet for this guy low recoil easy on the pocketbook and 223 brass aplenty / not so much the 22 hornet and casting is easy with a NOE mold I.M.H.O.

[NickSS]

You have gotten some good advice. I have and do shoot cast in 6.5, 284 (7mm), 30, 303, 8MM, 38, 40, 45 and 50 cal rifles. In 30 cal rifles I load for 30 Carbine, 7.62X39, 7.62X 51, 7.62X54R, 30-30 and 30-06. I have gotten good accurate loads for all of them. Your 280 will work fine with cast and you can develop loads that will shoot fine at 300 yards without too much trouble. The only trouble you may run into is scope elevation. Some scopes do not have enough elevation to allow for higher trajectories of slow moving cast bullets. I had to take a leopold scope off my 30-06 to get on target at 2000 yards not enough up in the scope that works just fine with full power jacketed loads out to 400 or more yards. If you want a new rifle all of the ones mentioned will work but to be honest with you military rifle will be more work to setup for a scope than a factory made sporting rifle unless you find a used one that someone else spent the time and money to setup. I personally would look at sporting rifles in one of the following calibers: 7.62X 39, 30-30, ot 308 Winchester. For what you want even a single shot rifle would work and H&R as well as Rossi make such rifles and they are dirt cheap and shoot well. I personally bought a CZ 527 in 7.62X39 for exactly the same purpose you want a rifle for. Shooting the lee 160 gr bullet sized to .312" and pushed by 20 gr of AA 1680 makes for a very pleasant and accurate combo that I have fired with great accuracy out to 200 yards and the rifle cost me much less than $700 new.

[adrians]

30-30 ,, ,, .308.

[hicard]

Anything based on the 308 case such as 243, 260, 308 or 358 would do nicely. I think the 260 is overlooked way too often. I don't get to hunt often but I have been most successful with that rifle as it comes up to the shoulder naturally and shoots flat as anything and kills way beyond its paper ballistics.

[birdadly]

Hi gang, since this thread got more attention I thought I'd jump in and give an update.

Snuffy ventured over for a visit and helped me reload my first-ever rifle rounds. He brought with him about 55 sized and ready to load boolits for my 280. We loaded them up with 4 different amounts of powder. The best group at 100yds was 4 shots w/in the size of a quarter with the last shot flying 3" from the rest. I imagine my scope was still zeroed from last year's shooting with factory rounds, and these lead rounds dropped about 10" below POA. I was surprised, but I guess it makes sense :)

I've also been shooting the Mosin, about 60 rounds of factory so far. I bought 100rds of factory in order to get used to the gun and then to have the brass for reloading. I'm awaiting an NOE mould from a Group Buy at the moment and look forward to finding a lighter load than factory rounds :)

I still plan to stick with the 280 for now, as shooting those 20 rounds of lead was awesome since every shot I wasn't thinking of the $1.80 (factory round) I just sent downrange :) I do, however, wonder if I can find a hunting boolit that will work well for range plinking up to 300 yards, or if I'll need 2 moulds, one for hunting and one for plinking. It's a beautiful gun so both it and myself will appreciate more time on the range together :)

Thanks fellas. I'm still keeping a record of everyone's suggestions and I really appreciate them and the advice you all have been sharing! -Brad

[wgg]

Use what you have to begin with then try others.

[TCLouis]

Savage rifle in 308, take left over money and buy best optics you can with the remaining money.

[snuffy]

Brad, I looked at the groups you sent me in the PM. My take on them is perhaps we should have weighed each boolit. I visually sort any boolit I make, but get real critical for rifle boolits. My rejection rate for those was well over 50% BEFORE sizing/lubing. The next time you try them, weigh them, sorting into like weight groups and loading all the same weights for each powder increment.

Some of those could have had internal voids, that would explain the flyers that ruined what would have been quite impressive groups. I'll get busy soon to make another run of those "culverts", so you have enough to sort for weight.

The SR-7625 seems to be a good powder for those loads. If we had weight sorted, we could say that there were two sweet spots,(discounting the one flyer in each otherwise great groups). Next time you could load closer increments in the area of the two good groups to refine and verify those loads.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_179634e77490b48d6e.jpg

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_179634e7748f75ceb7.jpg

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_179634e7748fed5a7e.jpg

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_179634e77490b48d6e.jpg

I hope you don't mind me transferring those pics over here, the rest of the guys may have some insight into what to do next.

[Northface37]

I would def consider getting an AR-15 (.223). I just recently got one at the beginning of summer and i shoot around the same amount as you do. As you are probably aware of, the AR-15 semi auto is the what I call civilians version of the Military Issued M-4 which is automatic. I believe that many of the soldiers are now carrying the Ar as well. That being the case, you know that the rifle is going to be able to do the job and certainly meet your specific requests. The range that I shoot at goes out to around 125 meters and I can tell you that for target and plinking you will not be disappointed.

I also own a 30.06 and recently got a 300WSM. I can tell you that for what you want the 300 has way too much recoil for what your wanting. The 30.06 isnt too bad however it still cause you to as you said lose sight when you fire. 30.06 is a great gun though. popular for sure. You will be able to shoot the .223 all day long, even my wife can shoot it.

however, with all my experience, i have not had as much fun shooting any rifle like I have my AR-15.There is nothing like spending an hour sending 100 rounds down range. Now, looking at the price, if you want to buy new, the AR will probably end up costing you $800, I happened to get mine for a really good deal uesd, and it performs like if it were brand new. These rifles are built to take a beating and will last. You can also put many different accessories on these rifles to customize them to fit your personality.


Where to look:

I would look at budsguns.com, cheaperthandirt.com, cabelas from time to time will have ridiculous sales on these (have to check often tho), also some local gun stores may have a trade-in that you may find a good deal. gunsamerica.com, these are to just name a few.

The .223 is certainly no stranger to the casting/ reloading world. If you happen to run into problems on your journey there are plenty of knowledgeable folks on here to help you out.



Before you buy, do your research, once you have settled on something, shop around and keep going back to the same places. Good luck and happy hunting!

[superior]

Handi-rifle in 223

[Wayne Smith]

Brad, you got a mentor, an a good one! Next you need to find Grafs.com if you haven't already. As for your next one, you have found the milsurps. Look at the 98 Mausers (8x57) and the Swede Mausers (6.5x57) and I'll be suprised if you haven't found your next rifle.

[birdadly]

snuffy's a great mentor indeed! Thanks for posting the pics, I don't mind at all. Sorry for my delay in replying; I've been spending a few nights in the ER with the GF recently. Also, I'm working on a new casting/reloading area so that's been keeping me busy as well.

But yep, I'll weigh the leftover boolits and sort them out. Then I'll work around that 12.5 grain mark and see if it dials itself in.

I wish this would be a decent boolit for deer hunting, as I think it would motivate me to get these prepared a little quicker. I'm wondering what I want to do with hunting. I have 8 (I think) rounds of factory left that I'm thinking I should just wait til after deer season to work up these lead loads? rather than going back and forth between lead and FMJ?

Anyway, that's something I have to decide. But I'm keeping busy in the meantime. Sorry I have no other real update for the thread, but just thought I'd chime in.

I think I'm going to stay away from the 223 at the moment guys, although I will have one in the not too distant future I'm sure. Wayne, thanks for the heads up on a possibly next milsurp purchase. I will surely keep my eyes open for those 2. In fact, two weekends from now we have a local gun show that I'll go to and specifically look for them :) -Brad

[atr]

my suggestions....
257 Roberts
or
7x57 (7mm Mauser)

[helice]

This has been a fun thread. It shows the kind of people we have on this forum. Exceptional advice and brotherhood.
I'm pleased that you have started working with the 280. It should meet your requirements nicely. You did real good to pick up the Russian Rifle. THey are great fun and will do anything a 308 will do with open sights.
My recommendation for your next rifle is similar to 357Max's post. You've got a couple of Bolt Guns. See if you can find someone with a Lever Gun in 357 Magnum (Marlin or Rossi Puma, etc). Buy a couple boxes of ammo and take it out for a test drive. It won't be a 300 yard target rifle but it's hard to find a gun that gives more fun per grain of powder. There's an amazing assortment of moulds for the 38s/357s and as 357Max said they make a fabulous deer gun. I know that this isn't what you said you were looking for but it seems to me that the guns you already have are what you were looking for. Maybe it's time to look at something different. Karl

[birdadly]

helice, I love your advice on a lever gun. One thing I've always had on my mind while starting my firearm collection is variety (6 years ago). I have 7 at the moment and the only caliber duplicated so far is .22, but one is a pistol and the other a rifle (AR-style).

I'm glad some of you agree that the 280 will do well for the requirements I posted about in this thread. I spent a decent amount on the rifle and I think it's fantastic looking and feeling.

I may as well ask in this thread, about a hunting mould for the 280. That's one thing I'm still getting familiar with, figuring out the names of moulds, sizes of calibers and which moulds go with which calibers :) Some seem to make a lot of sense and a few others seem to confuse me.

ie: Miha's 452-200 = a .452 diamater at 200 grains
ie: NOE's 316299 = a .316 diameter at 202 grains... so what is the 299? [smilie=1:

Anyway, is there a decent hunting boolit mould out there right now that I can pick up? My understanding is that I want a flat-nosed boolit, but I am unsure of weight. Or will I be waiting for some group buy to come along? My impression is that I want them sized at about .285, so I basically have been looking at mould numbers that include (285)...

Just to mention again, this is a Remington 700 CDL. Thanks fellas! -Brad

[NHlever]

While it is easier to get the larger calibers to shoot well with cast bullets, don't overlook the smaller calibers. I've worked with the .223 Rem., the .257 Roberts along with various .30, and .35 caliber rifles. The .243, and such might be good, but components like gas checks, and tools like molds can be hard to find. For longer range, it is easier to get heavier boolits to shoot well, but it's fun to shoot the little wild apples from trees with boolits in a .223 also, and there is no recoil. You would find that target loads with boolits in the 30-30 (which I liike), the .308 Win., and 30-06 is pretty mild until you get into very heavy for caliber boolits over 200 grains, and you will also find that the barrel of your gun stays cooler muich longer. When you are using well under 30 grains of powder, and often well under 20 grains, recoil becomes pretty pleasant. With it's longer neck, and thinner case I find the 30-06 to be a bit more versitile than the .308, and the case will seal with less pressure for some reason. (for instance the 30-06 cases will come out clean, and not sooty with as little as 10 grains of Unique behind a 115 flat nosed boolit, and it might take 2 -4 grains more for the .308 to come out clean. The longer neck makes it easier to find boolits that will not protrude into the powder space when seated for accuracy too. a) I have actually worked more with the .22 Hornet, and .223 (rather have a .222 when I find one) than I have with the 257 Roberts, but the latter is fun, and accurate too. For some reason it just seems that the case is just a bit larger than need be for a .25. I have a .250 Savage I haven't shot yet so it will be fun to see how that is to work with.

[helice]

Brad,
Oh my can I relate to the confusion. Some of the mould manufacturers have a pretty easy system of identification. Veral Smith at LBT makes just a couple of shaped noses and uses abbreviations to tell what's what. Ie WFN= Wide Flat Nose--LFN= Long Flat Nose etc. He follows the letters with diameter and weight.
Lyman (Ideal) started the cast boolit crazyness. They had all kinds of shapes for any given caliber. Each shape has a different number. Many rifles were made in 30 caliber. Some shape numbers were specifically designed for a specific rifle ie 30-06 or 30-40 Krag or 30-30. It gets confusing unless you have a chart of old Lyman moulds. Some of the OLD Lyman mould were exceptional but for reasons unknown Lyman stopped making them. Many of us here are delighted with a 30-30 bullet Lyman called the 311440. Lyman no longer makes it. But there are great mould makers represented here that have made copies of that mould. Because we know what the Lyman 311440 looks like - we know what NOE's version looks like. This forum has places to go to find pictures of those Lyman moulds. It's very helpful.

You ask for help for your .280. You can get a very inexpensive 130 grain Lee. Lyman makes a 135 and 160 grain pair. These three offerings are all round nosed and though they have been around forever, current thought is that flat point boolits work better. (I agree with this concept.) RCBS makes a heavy (168 grain) flat nosed gas checked mould that would (in my opinion) be a better choice. Check into BABore and NOE and Mehec to find out find out what they offer. I don't think Ranch Dog makes a 7mm slug but keep him in mind for other stuff when you get your lever guns.
Hope this helps. Karl

[bowfin]

The obvious answer is two rifles in each chambering, skipping some of the odder military and blackpowder cartridges...

...until next year...:grin:

[Three44s]

The gun:

You are never sorry to get a good Mosin Nagant ....... and particularily if you are a "caster".

Most folks here have one or more!

Savage rifles .......... the current bolt guns of most models utilize a nut that allows the owner with a couple of not very expensive tools to change their own barrels and set head space. Add to that the interchangeable bolt head and you got an EXPERIMENTERS DREAM!

Cartridges:

I'd say for the time being you'd probably want to go no smaller than .243 win for cast until you've got your teeth cut pretty well.

My personal favorite is the .338-06 ........ it's a great balance between j-word and cast loading ...... a lot of inherent accuracy and it's pretty over looked in my opinion!

The .35 Whelen ............ very Grand! Particularily in cast!!!!

The reason that casters lean towards bigger bores is that a small imperfection on a big slug amounts to a mosquitto bit on an elephant's rear end BUT a small imprefection on a small slug ..... is a big deal!

As you get your feet wet .......... you may well want to do the high wire without a net but right now ........... I'd keep the learning curve fairly flat.

Rifle and cartridge:

If you were to get a Savage 110 .......... you'd be set for the longer cartridges ......... you can do short ones too but there can be magazine issues.

If you got a Savage 10 ........... you are set for shorter cartridges only but in .243, .260 and .308 etc. your magazine issues will be few.

You can do the .223 quite easily in a short Savage and with some searching you can do them in the long actions but Savage has discontinued the .223 bolt head for the long bolt. Used bolt heads of this persuasion are found from time to time.

If you want to know more about Savage rifles ............. a good resource is the forum called Savageshooters. There is a member classifieds there that's available if you want to take the next step but it costs a few bucks a year.

The biggest expense there is the buying ........... ! I've got one corner of my man cave filled with Savage barrels I've found there ...........

............ guard your wallet!! But then, you only live ONCE!!


Three 44s

[Echo]

I guess I can add my opinions to the batch. A Handi-Rifle in 30-30 would be a distinct possibility. So would a Marlin in 30-30. A Handi-Rifle in 7.62x39 would be super, but I don't think they make them. These would all meet your criteria of low recoil, and there are jillions of cast boolit molds available for the 30 caliber.

[birdadly]

The obvious answer is two rifles in each chambering, skipping some of the odder military and blackpowder cartridges...

...until next year...:grin:

Finally some good advice!!! Haha just kidding fellas! I just realized there were some new posts here and thanks for them!

Something I didn't know when I started this thread was how much less powder goes into a cast rifle round compared to factory. The rounds Snuffy and I made up were best around 15.5 grains of powder... and I know it's a different powder, but this past weekend I made up some factory reloads and put in 48 grains! Well you're not surprised I'm sure, but I was!

Anywho, I have to imagine that plays into the whole recoil issue, that cast loads, in general, will have less recoil than factory rounds (which is what I was used to). Again, new to me only I'm sure :)

Speaking of making up those factory loads... so under Snuffy's guidance we made 20 rounds, and without his guidance I made another 20 rounds successfully... but my 32nd round... I got stuck in the sizing die.. ugh... I thought I was screwed until I came here and found out that it happens often and there's a tool for such an occasion! I swear I used the same amount of lube I had for the prior 31 rounds, but oh well. Now to buy the tool... -Brad

[shdwlkr]

Don't let that bother you think of going through a divorce and having just hours to get all your stuff and then when the dust clears try and remember what box anything is in.
I had to go through my mold collection recently and found I was missing some lucky for me the old brain kicked in what the box with the rest of them in looked like. Now if I can only find all my reloading dies?
Oh and don't forget the addiction to different molds I think I have almost 50 now and still buying more you can never have to many different molds to play with.
As for the stuck case I once did that and was so mad and walked away for a few hours only to come back out and out pops the case just like it was supposed to do.
The thing to be most mindful of when loading for cast bullets is that you don't double charge the case or some really not nice things might happen. Yes I did it once was lucky my double charge was still under max so all it did was thump me a real good one and what a fire out the muzzle you would have thought I had a cannon. Oh well sometimes dumb things don't hurt us then again sometimes it ends the whole deal for us.
be careful and have fun