.38 Hi Velocity through a Ruger GP frame?

[Wheeler]

I recently acquired a Ruger GPNY. Basically a GP100 frame, chambered in .38 Special, double action only, a special run for the NYPD that never made it to the streets as NYPD decided to transition to 9mm semi-auto pistols.

My question is, will a GP frame, cylinder and forcing cone handle the pressures generated? I've always thought the .38 Hi Velocity was a .357 Mag in a .38 case.

Wheeler

[Treeman]

.38 spl High Velocity was more peppy than most of the current crop of 38 spl +P but it isn't loaded to .357 mag pressure levels. Even if it were your GP would handle it without issue. Fire at will.

[Wheeler]

.38 spl High Velocity was more peppy than most of the current crop of 38 spl +P but it isn't loaded to .357 mag pressure levels. Even if it were your GP would handle it without issue. Fire at will.

Yippee!!!!

[Hammerhead]

.38 spl High Velocity was more peppy than most of the current crop of 38 spl +P but it isn't loaded to .357 mag pressure levels. Even if it were your GP would handle it without issue. Fire at will.

Any solid info on that?

[MtGun44]

GP100 is normally .357 Mag, so a variation of that should be up for any kind of .38 ammo
you can dream up. I have no doubt that the only change was to use a shorter reamer in
the cylinders, so the gun will be fine at pressures lower than the normal ammo it was
designed for - plus Rugers are generally very robust guns, too, it will digest .357 mags for
a very long time without issues.

Bill

[GP100man]

The GPs cyl is the same as a 357mag just cut shorter so the longer .135" cartridge would`nt chamber.

But be careful "hotrodding" 38 spec cases ,there`s still some ballon head cases (I found 2 in a batch a yr. ago that was given to me) & pressures spike more qwiker in smaller spaces , so ladder up slowly !!!

The 38 case even though (at least the modern version) is constructed the same the shear lack of space does`nt allow safe mag performance .

This has been my findings , even useing the 358156 boolit !!

YMMV

Safety First !!!

[Wheeler]

I used to run 5.6 grains of W231 under a 158 grain SJFP through my 686 in IDPA. I would come across case failures fairly often. I have a .357 Mag load using 8.2 grains of W231 under a 125 gr. SJHP. I'm not really sure about the pressures involved at 8.2 grains but that's a pretty stout load, based on the decidedly unscientific mothod of measuring felt recoil.

I can't see pushing anything past 8.2 grains and to be honest, don't know if I want to go that high due to the discomfort level of shooting. I had planned on using surplus military brass which has a slightly thicker case wall.

[subsonic]

There is a decent ammount of .38-44 data out there, which is basically ".357 in a .38 case" data. You can find data from old Handloader articles and google Skeeter Skelton to find others that are pretty hot. If it isnt too long for the gun, i like 12 gr of 2400 or AA9 behind a 170gr 358429. There is a lot of data for the 358156 mentioned above crimped in the lower groove to give nearly .357 loads with a .38 case. Going from memory, so it would be good to double check me, 14gr of 2400 behind the .358156 crimped in the rear is a popular +P+ .38 load.

[Wheeler]

Is 2400 and AA9 a flake or granulated powder? I recently discovered that my Dillon does not like flake powder at all while working up some magnum loads with W296. On a slight tangent, they sure were nice to shoot out of a Winchester 94 but close to painful out of my 686 with Hogue grips.

[subsonic]

AA9 and 2400 are both ball-type powders. AA9 is a little faster and a lot cleaner than 2400.

[Wheeler]

Thanks for the info.

I've been loading with W231 for so long that I feel like a newbie when I start looking at any other powder. This will be a slow process (by design) for sure.

[subsonic]

You can use your 296 too, there just isn't much data, if any. There are warnings about reducing win296 too much and resulting squib loads = bore obstruction.

[Wheeler]

W296 + Dillon powder measure = inconsistent loads. As much as a full 1.4 grains variation. If I go that route, I'll have to look into another press or at least another way to get powder into the case, which sort of defeats the advantage of the Dillon progressive.

As always, I'm open to suggestions. This is a learning process for me.

[Treeman]

Hammerhead, A former Ruger engineer (Ed Harris) has stated that the .38 special versions of full size Ruger double action revolvers (Speed six/Security six and GP100) all recieved the same heat treatment as the .357 mag versions. Furthermore, testing at Ruger consistently showed that catastrophic failures required pressures in the area of 100,000 psi-That is not a license to overload the guns but indicates a substancial saftey margin built into the designs. WHile various handloaders and experimenters such as Elmer Keith and Phil Sharpe built some Magnum level .38 special loads and pitched the concept to S&W. The .357 mag was introduced as a "New Breed of Revolver" and the early .357 factory loads were HOT-much hotter than the 38/44 factory loads. There isn't much pressure data available about those old 38/44s but George Nonte published test results in Shooting Times back in the early '70s that listed handloads that duplicated 38/44 ballistics at 25,000 CUP. Dave Scovill in his book "Loading the Peacemaker puts the pressure ceiling for 38/44 loads at 30,000 psi. Anyway you want to slice i tthe 38/44 factory loads are under the pressure ceiling of the .357 mag even in its current gelded form....and Ruger built their full size guns for the original 42kCUP specs. I would unhesitatingly shoot ANY factory.38 special in a GP with no trepidation.

[GP100man]

296/H-110 keep the case at least 85% capacity filled !

2400 at 14.0 grs. under a checked 358156 gave very stiky extraction in 2 GPs
Skeeter`s load that is touted as THE 38-44 load is 13.5 grs of 2400 under the 358156

The GP cyl will handle the 358429 easily even in 357 cases !
& plenty of data available for te Keith .

I researched a bit (but have`nt actually measured em) & found the original drawings Mr. Keith submitted to Lyman had the 429421 & the 358429 the same idenical length just different dia.