To Hard ?

[wolters4]

I just tried my first cast Boolits out. These where 290 GN .44 HP cast with WW with 3% tin added and dropped into water. These where shot out of a .444 Marlin with 35 GN H4198 (1650 FPS). They went threw 7 full milk jugs and stopped in the 8th. The first 3 completely blew up and the next 5 had only a hole going threw them. I was hopping to get some sort of mushroom but no such luck. The remains of the boolit was 187 GN.

Are these to hard or brittle?

Thanks in advance for the inputs'...

35076

35077

[para45lda]

Looks like the HP portion separated from the base. May be too hard. At 1650 you could go a lot softer lead and air cooled IMO.

Wes

[Char-Gar]

When you water dropped those bullets you made them way, way, way to hard to expand. They were so hard they were brittle and what you got is what happens to brittle bullets when they impact. With your alloy and the bullet air cooled you might have some expansion.

I am tempted to go on another of my anti-water dropping rants, but your experience will teach you far more than my rant.

[Bret4207]

I think even straight WW might be a bit too "hard/brittle" depending on exactly what it's make up is. You have what appears to be a very deep and wide cavity. The faster you push it the less likely it is it'll remain together, harder alloys won't help much because they tend to be more brittle. You might want to go to a 50/50 WW/pure lead even.

Truthfully, with a 44 cal boolit and what appears to be at least a 30 cal metplat, what makes you think you need a HP?

[wolters4]

I read that Mihec's HP molds where great so I picked up one. This was my first casting.

[largom]

IMO way to hard and you don't need the hollow point. In my 45-70's I mix 60% lead to 40% WW and air cool the boolits. Your hard hollowpoints probably shed the nose in the first or second water jug.

Larry

[Bret4207]

I read that Mihec's HP molds where great so I picked up one. This was my first casting.

From what I hear they ARE great! Alright then, the next question is what exactly do you want to do with the boolit? Water does not mimic flesh if hunting is your aim. Water is just convenient for us to use. So don't take water tests as gospel for what the boolit will do. It's easy enough to go to a softer alloy, just stop water quenching and see what happens. You can cut the alloy with softer or pure lead too if you need to. Pure lead is extremely ductile, it flows rather than breaks up. I guess what you need to do is see what the boolit does w/o HT first off. And then there the question of accuracy. Hows it shooting now?

[44man]

Yes, at that velocity they are way too hard for deer.
I don't know what the hollow point at that hardness will do in a deer though.
I can tell you that if you go to a 50-50 alloy, they will tear the shoulders to pieces. I am still experimenting with my 45-70 at the same velocity and I am going to try a 75-25 alloy.
It takes little to go from a hole punch to utter destruction.
Hard boolits seem to work fine at around 1350 fps.
I like hard for accuracy and they kill super at my velocities but faster boolits do not work with hard. Now a softer nose and a hard base will work all across the velocity ranges. A 50-50 nose and a hard alloy at the base CAN be water dropped without harming expansion yet maintain accuracy.
I still have much work to do to get it right for deer.
This is what a 50-50 Hollow point, oven hardened, at your velocity does to a deer. The exit shoulder was a total mess and this is the rest after I removed the shoulder.

[onondaga]

I shoot a 329gr .459" plain based RN-F at 1610 fps out of my .458Win Mag.. My alloy is COWW and Lino at 7:3 . MY boolits are towel dropped and not water chilled. The hardness consistently tests at 14 BHN after 1 month.

I am thinking my Boolits are softer than yours and yours look gas checked also. Your hard alloy is likely not needed due to the gas check at the velocity you are working. My boolits expand double caliber and retain 100% weight in similar testing.

I'd recommend testing your lead hardness with and without water quenching. PM me if you would like to send me a few of your chilled and a few of your towel dropped boolits for free hardness testing.Just eliminating the water chill may be the answer to better expansion and 100% weight retention for your gas checked boolit at that load level. Wheelweight alloy with 3% tin added can certainly water chill hard enough enough to make brittle boolits that fragment. Towel dropped boolits with that alloy would almost certainly be a lot less brittle and unlikely to frag on you. Plus, your gas check will certainly give you a good seal if your fit is .002" over groove diameter and that makes alloy hardness much less critical and more tolerating of a softer alloy at your load level with a gas check.


Gary

[Frank]

44man:

A 50-50 nose and a hard alloy at the base CAN be water dropped without harming expansion yet maintain accuracy.
I still have much work to do to get it right for deer.
This is what a 50-50 Hollow point, oven hardened, at your velocity does to a deer. The exit shoulder was a total mess and this is the rest after I removed the shoulder.
Can't wait till you try that softer nose recipe. Those will be an interesting experiment.

onondaga:

Towel dropped boolits with that alloy would almost certainly be a lot less brittle and unlikely to frag on you. Plus, your gas check will certainly give you a good seal if your fit is .002" over groove diameter and that makes alloy hardness much less critical and more tolerating of a softer alloy at your load level with a gas check.
Right, the air cooled will work in the rifle, but not the revolver. Now, the water dropped with the soft nose will work in the rifle and the revolver.

[44man]

44man:

Can't wait till you try that softer nose recipe. Those will be an interesting experiment.

onondaga:

Right, the air cooled will work in the rifle, but not the revolver. Now, the water dropped with the soft nose will work in the rifle and the revolver.
I have figured out a way for a seamless boolit but it might take two people. I have to get Bioman here to help cast. It does not involve more heat, just speed and a level mold. It will be a dump, dump from two pots very fast. I have not tried it yet. The nose can't set up before the hard is poured.
Setting boolits in water to anneal the nose is a crazy situation because water sucks the heat.
I tried heating the mold after the pour and that is crazy too. Takes forever for one boolit and then the mold is too hot for the next.
I have a soft nose pot but the time from it to the hard lead is too long.