Buffalo classic 45LC or 45/70? Trying to decide.

[DanWalker]

Hey guys. Looking for opinions. Trying to decide which one I want to get.
I'm wanting to use it for plinking, as well as hunting. I like the 45LC because it's short and handy, but don't know how accurate it is. I've heard good things about the 45/70, but not sure if I want to drag all that barrel through the sagebrush and timber.

[RonE]

If you shoot pistols and have a single action Colt and are already loading .45 Colt, the decision is easy. If on the other hand you shoot mostly rifles, I would suggest the .45-70.

Ideally, you would have one or more of each.

[superior]

Dan, I own both a 45Colt and a 45-70. They both are extremely accurate. The Colt is a Blackhawk and the 70 is a guide gun. I can hit a nickel sized spot with the 7.5" RBH offhand at 20 yards, almost every time with the first load I ever tried (255gr. Lee over 14gr HS-6). That same load blew a half dollar sized hole through a fox and went through a small mesuite tree after exit. It still had gobs of power to spare. I don't load any real hot loads, The 45-70 is a no brainer but if barrell length is hindering your getting one, I wouldn't hesitate to get the Colt.

[justingrosche]

Dan, I have the 45 Colt Buffalo Classic. It's a damn fine 100 yard rifle. around 2- 21/2" at a hundred with the supplied open sites. I havent shot the long barreled 45-70 Buff classic, but a few of the shorter handi rifle version which were OK.

[white eagle]

I'd get the buffalo classic 45 colt
just because it is shorter

[superior]

I've been re-thinking the question, putting myself in your shoes...Which would I get? If I didn't have the 1895g, I'd go for the 45-70. The name "Buffalo Classic" invokes visions of buffalo hunters sitting around the campfire, melting down slugs recovered from Bison carcasses for use the next day. As good as the 45Colt is, to me, the 45-70 and the word buffalo go together like baseball, apple pie and Chevrolet.

Some will find this helpful
some will not

[DanWalker]

Well, I already have a 45LC blackhawk I've taken a few head of big game with. I reload for both 45 colt and 45/70. I'm really thinking the 45 LC Buffalo classic, set up with some sort of a ladder sight might be just the ticket. Our average shot on Antelope and deer where I hunt is 150 yards or less. Yeah, you can shoot a LOT farther than that if you want to, but I enjoy stalking in close. Where I hunt, 150 yards isn't terribly difficult for a guy who's patient and stealthy enough.

[redneckdan]

Go with the 45 LC. I had a 45-70 and I'll tell you what, the sucker will kick the stuffing out of you. I parted it out and made enough on the sales to buy a ruger #3 in 45-70. Even with full snort ruger loads that #3 is no where near as bad as that BC. And the highest I ever went with the BC was a 400gr at 1400fps.

[Boz330]

Go with the 45 LC. I had a 45-70 and I'll tell you what, the sucker will kick the stuffing out of you. I parted it out and made enough on the sales to buy a ruger #3 in 45-70. Even with full snort ruger loads that #3 is no where near as bad as that BC. And the highest I ever went with the BC was a 400gr at 1400fps.

Dan,
I shot some of the Ruger loads with a 405gr bullet through my Ruger #3 and immediately went to the trap door data. The only gun that I ever fired that hurt worse was a 577 nitro express. I used the gun for deer and I figured if those loads would kill a deer 1873 they still would and they did. I don't mind recoil if it is necessary but my Mamma didn't raise no masochist.
That 45LC Buffalo Classic is a nice looking rifle and with modern powders can be loaded beyond the 19th century 45-70 velocities and they took everything on the continent with it.

Bob

[ButcheN]

I've been re-thinking the question, putting myself in your shoes...Which would I get? If I didn't have the 1895g, I'd go for the 45-70. The name "Buffalo Classic" invokes visions of buffalo hunters sitting around the campfire, melting down slugs recovered from Bison carcasses for use the next day. As good as the 45Colt is, to me, the 45-70 and the word buffalo go together like baseball, apple pie and Chevrolet.

Some will find this helpful
some will not

superior: you hit the nail on the head (well all but it should say FORD, but nobody can be perfect.......lol..........)all joking aside the 45-70 is the way to go just the name says it all "Buffalo Classic" it just has that 405gr buffalo bullet written all over it. Although I like the 525gr paper patch for the long shots.
And you don't have to shoot hot loads when your shooting something that is already as big as some rounds mushroom to, your going to get the kill.
But hay that's just me......

[DanWalker]

After watching my buddy trying to crawl through the sagebrush with a 34" barrelled shiloh sharps last year, I can tell you, nostalgia aint all it's cracked up to be when it comes to long heavy octagon barrels.

[ButcheN]

After watching my buddy trying to crawl through the sagebrush with a 34" barrelled shiloh sharps last year, I can tell you, nostalgia aint all it's cracked up to be when it comes to long heavy octagon barrels.

HAHA I can see where there may be a problem there. (I can just see it in my head.) Then a handy rifle would have been a lot better. Good point.

[bobthenailer]

A small local gun shop in my area has a buffalo classic ? the target model in 45/70 in 98% condtion for $270.00 out the door !

[cajun shooter]

Bob, That's a steal for a rifle that will shoot with the big boys. It will however let your shoulder know that it is taking a beating. This gun is best for shooting in open areas off the sticks or a tree stand with rifle rest. It is out of it's intended use when taken into a heavily wooded or swamp area. The short 22 inch barrel model will work perfect for this but you will give up all that LR accuracy.

[Springfield]

Putting on a leather buttstock cover with a bit of foam in it takes out a LOT of the discomfort of shooting a 45-70 BC. I also have a 45 Colt BC and I don't hunt with either, but it seems to me they are worlds apart as far as being effective for hunting. I usually just shoot my 38-55 BC, kinda split the difference.

[Swede44mag]

I put a magnum kickeze on my Marlin Lever Evolution 45-70 it don't hurt anymore.
Better mount it right though the scope will give you one heck of a black eye and a cut nose if you don't.

Ask me how I know while I had blood running down my nose last deer season.
Darn near knocked me out to boot went to the dock and was back out for more the next day.
They keep telling me that a 45-70 don’t kick all I can say is bull-puckey.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have a H&R Handi-Rifle in the Target Classic mode. It came with a Williams receiver sight on the back and a Lyman Globe sight with insert on the front.

In 38-55 with a hand cast 250 Gr FN Lead boolit over 34 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 Blackl Powder it is a joy to shoot. Accurate to about 1" at 100 and 4" at 200 with these sights and my old eyes.

With a better rear sight I am sure this would be a decent gun for hunting or plinking.

As a benefit you can also load this gun with modern gunpowder and get velocities of upwards of 2000 FPS. With the blackpowder loadings of up to 1200 FPS it is a soft recoiling fun rifle to shoot and the brass is readily available at Starline.

[DanWalker]

I also have a 45 Colt BC and I don't hunt with either, but it seems to me they are worlds apart as far as being effective for hunting.
Care to expound upon this? Do you feel the 45 colt BC is inferior? Is it too short and whippy?
Just curious as to why you feel this way. Thanks.

[Catshooter]

Dan,

The 45-70 BC is a wonderful gun, but short it isn't. Light and handy, nope, not here


The Colt BC is all three.

Both are real shooters.


Cat

[Taylor]

I have both.after having both,I believe it would be hard pressed to decide between the two.They each have thier functions.

[tacklebury]

I have both, I like the .45 Colt for deer in thick spots or brushy areas, because of the length and weight. Also, I shoot the .45 Colt for plinking also. Keep in mind though that they no longer produce the .45 LC (since 2008), so when they are gone, they're gone. If you're unsure get the colt now and .45-70 later. I use the .45-70 in the early season, when I hunt mostly fields and open areas and it shines for accuracy and power past 100 yards. I do load special .45 Colt rounds using Reloader7 which push the big 300gr. XTP magnum bullets I load a good bit faster than any pistol will send them, making it kind of a mini .45-70. ;) I like carrying the carbine better for much of my hunting though and I carry my .45 Colt New Model Blackhawk for closer off hand/finishing shots, but past 50 yards, I typicall use the carbine.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/tacklebury/45colt300grxtpmag.jpg
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/tacklebury/HR_45colt_bc.jpg
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/tacklebury/nmbconvertibleboxed.jpg

Unfortunately, due to a data crash haven't got pics of my .45-70 remade, but I love that gun also. Loaded up right, I use it with bullets ranging from round balls up to 405 gr. for a variety of game.

Good luck deciding, but either one is a great weapon.

[DanWalker]

So, do you consider it accurate and shootable enough for deer sized game to 150 yards?
How are the sights?

[geargnasher]

I have the Classic Carbine .45 Colt, identical to the one in Tacklebury's picture, and it's a shooter provided you do some things to cope with the excessivly long throat. Don't plan on shooting anything factory in it and getting any accuracy. I worked up the Lee .457-340-RF sized .453" and seated to crimp in the first lube groove backed by case full of Reloder 7, I don't know the velocity but it was supersonic. 1.5" 50-yard ten-shot groups are the norm with that load and a 4 MOA red dot. The factory sights are decent, but very cheaply made and not consistent.

Since the H&R SB2 frame is good for lots of pressure, I was able to take the .45 Colt to its potential, maximizing boolit weight and velocity. If you think "outside the box" of normal .45 Colt loadings you can easily achieve trapdoor springfield performance from a super-short, extremely light and fast-handling little pack rifle, and even with the steel buttplate and no extra weight in the stock cavity it isn't too gawdaweful to shoot. Get the .45/70 target rifle, and get it fitted for a .38/55 barrel too, then you'll have it all!

Gear

[shovel80]

I always figured one was more of a handgun cartridge, and the other a rifle cartridge!
Terry

[tacklebury]

So, do you consider it accurate and shootable enough for deer sized game to 150 yards?
How are the sights?

Accurate enough for deer, yes. The sights are good quality Marbles front contour and rear buckhorn. I don't really care for the buckhorn and am looking at getting a Skinner Peep sight for the rear, but haven't done so as yet. I think if you want to extend the range to 150yards, I'd probably go with the 240gr XTP Magnum if you can find them. The 300 starts dropping pretty good, but is still doable if you aim at the top of their shoulder. Still has plenty of power, but depends on how good you are at Kentucky windage. ;)

Oh and here's a pic of my BC I took yesterday. Finally got around to doing it. ;) It currently has a scope on it as I'm working on a new load development. Couple reloading buddies suggested, it'd be better for working my Ladders, so I'm giving it a try. I don't like hunting with scopes, but it's something new anyway.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/tacklebury/hrbuffaloclassic4570leftscoped.jpg

Here's an updated one of my 45LC Classic Carbine:

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/tacklebury/hr45lcclassiccarbineleft.jpg

& Blackhawk:

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/tacklebury/rugernewmodelblackhawkconvertible45coltright.jpg

[Lonegun1894]

I do not have and have not fired the BC .45 Colt, but have the BC .45-70 and several leveractions in .45 Colt. I would go with the .45-70 just for the sake of the heavier boolit, but that's just me. I use the Lee 450gr FPPB sized to .458 at 1300ish FPS to basically duplicate the old loads, and it is as gentle a rifle to shoot as my .30-30s. It isnt as flat as a .30-30, but it also passes through anything flesh and blood I've shot with it so far--jackrabbits, coyote, deer, and hog. Having said that, inside 125 yds, maybe 150, on game the size of deer/antelope, I dont think it makes much difference. I personally prefer the .45-70 for shots over 125yds, but can usually get much closer, so dont feel handicapped by my .45 Colt rifles. Also, the .45-70 will use somewhat more powder and lead to accomplish the same task, if that is a concern for you. As to the comments about .45-70 recoil being on the harsh side, it can be, which is part of the reason I toned it down to the 1873 load levels--a 450 grs at 2000fps (dont ask) was NO fun at all, at least not for me. The slower loads drop a bit more, but as just as if not more accurate and I trust the rifle to 250yds, but haven't tried it beyond that yet, so it may surprize me someday.

[G. Blessing]

Another option; get the .45LC and re-chamber to .454 casull....

Looking into doing that right now myself.

G.

[ShootingLooney]

Best to just keep n mind the distances you are going to shoot. Where are you hunting or shooting?
The .45 Colt is a good 50/75/100 yard cartridge, but it won't buck brush as well as the .45-70.
Remember also that the .45-70 can be loaded DOWN, and with lighter boolits if you are recoil averse, or loaded UP for longer range and/or deadly game. I shoot a 500 gr. Postnel style, out to 500 yards, and yup, it whacks the snot out of me, but mostly the 405 gr., and she will take any North American game animal to 600 yard if you are up to snuff.
Also note that pre 1900, at the Sandy Hook Trials, they shot the .45-70 against the 577-.450 Martini, both loaded with 80 grains of powder [.45-80-405] out to 3,520 yards- yup, two miles!
And people today say the .45-70 is a "good 100 yard cartridge"?!

[fcvan]

Several months ago I purchased the classic carbine in 45 Colt. I picked it up for $229 and truly enjoy reloading for this rifle. So far I am pushing the Lee 255RF at 1400 fps and will start playing with H110 or 296 to see how far I can go at 45+P pressures. Just for grins and giggles I had a blast shooting round balls at 950 fps. Good fun.

As noted in other posts, you can send the action to the factory for a rebarrel with the 32" 45-70 for $120 plus shipping. You will have to buy sights which are available from most places like MidwayUSA. If you dont want the 32" tube, you can get the 24" 45-70 barrel for $96 which includes sights. I am planning on the 32" this winter when my shooting is hindered by weather. The H&R website says its about a 30 day turn-around.

[rockrat]

+1 on the rechamber to 454 casull. You can still shoot 45 Colt. Go to Greybeards and ask them about rechambering.
Some have even gone to the 460 S&W, but that round would be a handful in the Handi.

[shovel80]

(Quote)...Keep in mind though that they no longer produce the .45 LC (since 2008), so when they are gone, they're gone.

I'm pretty Darn Sure....the .45 LC "Long Colt"...and the .45 Colt are the Exact Same Cartridge!!...The term "Long Colt" I believe was undertaken in order to not confuse it with the .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol)...!
Terry

[Catshooter]

Terrry,

You are correct in that the Long Colt and 45 Colt are one and the same.

However, the 45 Colt pre-dated the ACP by many years and if one was worrying about differentation, wouldn't one modify the newcomer? There were and are lot's of 45s. You'll find quite a contraversy in the actual origin of "Long Colt".

After you have studied cartridge nominclature for awhile it becomes fairly apparent the no one has really cared much, well, about much of anything! Clarity, differentation, just plain ease of buying yer dang ammo across the counter, logic (!), you name it.

But we do have the internet now and that may help. Who knows? For many years I thought that we knew who invented the Boxer priming system until the internet.

Welcome to the forum by the way.


Cat

[TCLouis]

If ya have the Colt in pistola already, go for it.

In the rifle it is significantly bigger performer than folks think.

Least that is what I read.

I have 45-70s, but then one was my Dads and it just grew from there.

If I could get 57s, 44s at a price I was willing to pay I'd have at least one of each

[canyon-ghost]

In a Buffalo Classic, I'd think that a 45 LC would be more enjoyable to shoot.

[Okie2]

I have both the 45/70 and 38/55....Have shot deer with both (under 100 lb Oklahoma deer...little)....the 38/55 killed it just fine...the 45/70 at 20 yards messed it up more than I had imagined! I changed the sight of both gun....38/55 with tang venier...fine for target...not so much hunting. The 45/70 has an aftermarke peep with larger aperature and added a fiber optic for the front sight...really nice set up for hunting. I wish I had it in 45 LC for close range...can really hop up for close hunting....wish I had thought of it. Forgot to add...on the 45/70 I added a really nice recoil pad & added lead to the opening...calms the recoil quite a bit.

[geargnasher]

Just chrono'd some loads this afternoon, here's a target from the same load I shot a little over a week ago for the PP postal competition:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_89094e597bd333b83.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1960)

That's from my NEF Classic Carbine with a 20" barrel and a 4MOA red dot sight. Five rounds Chrono'd at 1326, 1313, 1296, 1309, and 1324, that puts it easily in the Trapdoor Springfield class with the 340-grain boolit. Can't get any more powder in the case and it still burns a little dirty, might try IMR 4198. Steel buttplate isn't too tough on the shoulder even at these loadings, but I'll put it up against anything in North America to 100 yards with the soft boolits.

Gear

[tacklebury]

Nice results Gear. 8) I can shoot a few of mine with the steel bp, but after that, I pull out my slip-on Limbsaver small recoil pad. I've shot 70 in a day with only slight soreness. ;) I cannot bring myself to modify my wood, as I love the look. ;)

[geargnasher]

There is no disputing the 45/70 is more versatile, but the .45 Colt is pretty capable with it's +P load tolerance, brass is cheaper, and it does more with less powder due to the smaller case. Also, the .452" groove will handle light, .45 pistol boolits down to 160 grains or so, and few such moulds exist for .457" grooves. All this is only a consideration if economy of powder and lead and low-recoil plinking is a priority.

Gear

[Okie2]

Can someone tell me if the LC45 is drilled & tapped for sights other than the current sights? Another set of holes where you might add a receiver sight? Thanks, Scott

[justingrosche]

Can someone tell me if the LC45 is drilled & tapped for sights other than the current sights? Another set of holes where you might add a receiver sight? Thanks, Scott
No, the 45 Colt Buffalo Classic is not, but I believe the 45-70 version is.

[tacklebury]

Can someone tell me if the LC45 is drilled & tapped for sights other than the current sights? Another set of holes where you might add a receiver sight? Thanks, Scott

Yes they are, mine has scope mount holes at the rear and the Marbles Buckhorn is what it comes with. I've mounted a scope briefly, but to me it looked so bad, I didn't leave it on long. ;)

You can also use the rearward screw holes to mount a Williams WGRS sight on it or the Skinner Peep. That's the one I'm ordering for mine. ;)

http://www.skinnersights.com/page_16.html

[geargnasher]

Can someone tell me if the LC45 is drilled & tapped for sights other than the current sights? Another set of holes where you might add a receiver sight? Thanks, Scott

My .45 Colt Classic Carbine is d/t for the weaver base, comes as a kit from H&R with screws and a clamp-on hammer spur so you can still thumb back the hammer with the scope tube in the way. If you wanted a receiver sight, you'd have to work with the screw pattern that's there, but it shouldn't be too hard to figure something out. IIRC Greybeard Outdoors' site has some excellent info on mounting aperture sights on these guns.

Gear

[justingrosche]

My .45 Colt Classic Carbine is d/t for the weaver base, comes as a kit from H&R with screws and a clamp-on hammer spur so you can still thumb back the hammer with the scope tube in the way. If you wanted a receiver sight, you'd have to work with the screw pattern that's there, but it shouldn't be too hard to figure something out. IIRC Greybeard Outdoors' site has some excellent info on mounting aperture sights on these guns.

Gear
Thats how mine came too Ian, I assumed they would be standard like that.
Justin

[forestgrump]

I have a Buffalo Classic that I shoot in military matches, it shoots better than me. I prefer to use my 1894 in 45lc or my 1895 Guide Gun in silhouette matches. Which gave me the idea, If I can knock down a 40lb ram at 200 meters with a 45lc. Why not use it for elk hunting. So now I have two lever action rifles for elk hunting. An 20" 1894 and a Guide Gun. The 1894 is a 175 yd shooter an 1895 is a 250 yd shooter. Buffalo Classic's are nice, but not walking through some of the brush we have here in the Coast Range here in NorthWet Oregun. Forestgrump

[Texantothecore]

I shoot .45-70 because it is quite literally as much fun as you can have with a rifle.
It'll go 1,000 yards accurately.
You can shoot bullets from 144 grn to 600 grn
You can hunt rabbit with them using a 144 round ball at 450 fps or go for a moose with 500 grn.
You can use them as a 48 gauge shotgun (load empty cartridge cases and substitute a simple wad for the shotcup).

and you can do all of these things in modern powder or blackpowder. The round just doesn't care...it just goes! Best round ever developed.

Just my thoughts.

[geargnasher]

Thats how mine came too Ian, I assumed they would be standard like that.
Justin

I missed the part about TANG sight. No, they are NOT D/T'd for tang sights unless something changed recently.

Tacklebury, thanks for the tip and links, I've been wanting to try a rear aperture on mine too.

Gear

[pls1911]

Mr. Forestgrump.
I respectfully recommend you not consider the .45 colt as a 175 yard elk rifle....especially when you're well equipped with a 45-70. Deer, pigs, and vermin to 100 yards with the right bullet and placement, the .45 Colt in a rifle will indeed serve you well, and perhaps for an rut goofy elk sharing your campsite, but the margin of error under normally expected conditions would advise prudence to prevail.
I have several of both, love both cartridges, and cast an reload for them as well... though the 45-70 in a handgun perhaps a bit less attractive.
Mr. Texantothecore...
I too am from Texas, and share your sentiment regarding the 45-70 as being as much fun as you can have with your cloths on... unless of course in your advancing years you decide to shoot nekkid when times are appropriate.
(see campsite reference above)
Yep, have some yarns too....