Rossi 92 load strength question

[greenmntranger]

Was wondering how stout a load you guys are firing in your Rossi 92's. I know that the same receiver is used for the .454 Casull, but I have read that those guns got a different heat treating.
So what is the stiffest load you guys are running through your 92's?

[Jeff H]

....So what is the stiffest load you guys are running through your 92's?

I don't know about the other guys, but I see a significant enough increase in velocity between pistol length barrels and carbine/rifle-length barrels using book loads with the .357 that I don't need to try to find something above book.

That may be a different story with the .44 mags and/or .45 Colts, but I don't have one of those.

[rbertalotto]

I have two Rossi / Puma 1892 rifles. A 45LC and a 454 Casull. I sure wish we could find out for sure if the 454 has different heat treating. I find it hard to believe they would go to the trouble of only trating certain actions and not all of them............

[Ed Barrett]

Several friends of mine have loaded for their Rossi's in 357 to some hot loads that I won't publish here. My 357 adds an extra 350fps to top pistol loads. Between the longer barrel and no cylinder gap, it's all I need for deer. These loads took 4 deer last year with no problem. I use my .454 for hogs, I don't know if they heat treat the .454's any differently. From what I can see the thickness of the of receiver walls are not different. The design of the 92 and clones show the genius of John Browning, it’s a scaled down 1886 Winchester. The 86 was chambered for some pretty big cartridges for their time. If the action was a bit longer it could take even more powerful cartridges. The .454 is about the max for length.

After all that, all I can say is work the loads up very slowly. remember all the guns can take one proof load, just don't make it a steady diet.

[Gee_Wizz01]

I have two Rossi / Puma 1892 rifles. A 45LC and a 454 Casull. I sure wish we could find out for sure if the 454 has different heat treating. I find it hard to believe they would go to the trouble of only trating certain actions and not all of them............

Since you have one of each, if you could find someone with access to a Rockwell tester, you could have each one tested, you could get a real good idea, assuming both are made from the same steel. Either way you would know if one is harder than the other.

G

[helice]

GMR
I have a stainless LSI Puma in 45 Colt. I've driven a 250 grain J-word with a load of Lil'Gun that was a full grain less than published maximum. The Chrony reported 1850'/s and the butt plate reported that was far enough. The 44 Mag. and 45 Colts can make a 92 no fun to shoot from a bench. I don't see any point in hot-rodding it past Max Published. Every time I take people out to shoot, the M-92 in 357 Mag wins the popularity contest.

[Old Goat Keeper]

I have one of the Rossi 454s and use a sissy pad on it with full tilt loads. It gets pretty rough off the bench. But to stay on subject it was reported on anothe forum that the receivers and bolt for the 454 model DO receive a special heat treatment to take that high pressure. Industry standarrd pressure is 53,000 CUP! And yes the receivers ARE their standard 92 model cept for the extra heat treatment.

T-o-m

[220swiftfn]

Mine gets downright painful with full bore loads...(crescent butt plate) But they take Ruger and TC loads just fine (assuming that you're talking about 45 Colt)

Dan

[Link23]

i load my 44 mag pretty hot, around 1800 FPS and it shoots good, you can def. feel it i do that with the lee 310 big mammas

Link23

[garym1a2]

The .357 takes about all the 2400 you can put in a case. But, I find 6 grain of Unique to be a good all around load and 3 grain of bullseye to be a fun plinker in the 38case.

[greenmntranger]

Thanks for all the input guys. I cross posted this question on a couple sites and have got back the same answer. The Rossi will handle just about everything my shoulder can.

In searching for info on the .454 Casull heat treat question, I found some anecdotal, "I read this on the company web site" statements but nothing conclusive.

GMR

[BAGTIC]

I have two Rossi / Puma 1892 rifles. A 45LC and a 454 Casull. I sure wish we could find out for sure if the 454 has different heat treating. I find it hard to believe they would go to the trouble of only trating certain actions and not all of them............

The difference between the H&R SB1 and SB2 actions is due to the difference in heat treating. They start as the same alloy. Got this from the factory several years ago.

[BAGTIC]

I have one of the .454. I like the recoil pad and also the tube feed. I wish the same gun were available chambered for the .45 Colt.

Anything I am going to shoot could be handled with a heavy .45 load and since my shoulder surgery that is all I want to risk in such a light gun. .45 Colt brass is cheaper, more readily available, and the slightly shorter length would permit ballistically more efficient bullets with longer ogives. IMO the .454 is gilding the lily.

[Doc.Holliday]

Evening;
My stoutest load in my Rossi 92 Trapper ; 45 colt; is 22 gr of 4227 with a CCI 350 primer and 250 gr Dardas RNFP cast bullet. Use this load at your own risk
Works for me and my gun and will dispatch anything I ask it to
I also have a Rossi Ranch Hand using this recipe.
Regards
Doc.

[Snyd]

Thanks for all the input guys. I cross posted this question on a couple sites and have got back the same answer. The Rossi will handle just about everything my shoulder can.

In searching for info on the .454 Casull heat treat question, I found some anecdotal, "I read this on the company web site" statements but nothing conclusive.

GMR

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_5_49/ai_99145185/


"When the Puma .454 arrived, the first thing I did was to call Glen Ruh at Legacy Sports International to ask him how Rossi had been able to adapt the 1892 design to the hot Casull cartridge. Ruh explained that the metallurgy and heat treatment had been modified to handle the high pressure and that the carbine had been thoroughly torture tested by H.P. White Laboratories using standard factory ammunition."

Standard factory 454 ammo is usually 65000psi stuff. I shoot 335-355-425gr at 1800-1700-1500ish.

[Four Fingers of Death]

You will run out of shoulder before the gun runs out of strength.

[pmer]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

Here is a good article on the Rossi and it kinda ranks other lever actions in strength too.

I have one in .45 Colt and it handles 300 grain boolits at 1600 FPS with no trouble. Execpt mine shoots Ruger/TC loads lower than SAA loads.

[greenmntranger]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

Here is a good article on the Rossi and it kinda ranks other lever actions in strength too.

I have one in .45 Colt and it handles 300 grain boolits at 1600 FPS with no trouble. Execpt mine shoots Ruger/TC loads lower than SAA loads.


Thanks for the article. VERY informative. With all the input, I am now confident I can shoot ANY commercial ammo and most any handloads I am willing to mix up

[Four Fingers of Death]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

Here is a good article on the Rossi and it kinda ranks other lever actions in strength too.

I have one in .45 Colt and it handles 300 grain boolits at 1600 FPS with no trouble. Execpt mine shoots Ruger/TC loads lower than SAA loads.

Must be getting out of the barrel quicker or something like that.

[Bret4207]

IME the little Rossi get's rather violent on the back end with full house factory stuff. Even with a recoil pad it's just not fun. I think that will be the limit.

I can't think of anything in the northeast I wouldn't take on with my little Puma 44 and a 260 gr Keith boolit.

[Andy_P]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

Here is a good article on the Rossi and it kinda ranks other lever actions in strength too.

I have one in .45 Colt and it handles 300 grain boolits at 1600 FPS with no trouble. Execpt mine shoots Ruger/TC loads lower than SAA loads.

The notion that the Rossi Puma M92 in 454 Casull has undergone a "special heat treatment", sits clearly in the category of "Gun Folklore". I imagine someone once thought "it must be different from the other Rossi M92's due to the much higher pressure of the 454 Casull" and because upon inspection it appreared identical to one chambered in 45 Colt, it must have the "special heat treatment". That's very commonly used "logic".

[rbuck351]

I have a Puma in 454 and my std load is a 310 gr cast at 1950 with a caseful of Lil Gun. Recoil is a bit stiff. I don't know if anything special is done with the metal in the 454 but what ever they did is working well for me.

[Naphtali]

According to a thread on leverguns.com of several years ago, while dimensions of Rossi 45 Colt and 454 Casull actions are the same, Rossi heat treats its 454 bolt, locking lugs, and receiver differently. When I talked with their tech support several years ago, I discussed that I wanted my 45 Colt Rossi to be able to use the same ammunition I handloaded for my Freedom Arms 97. So long as overall cartridge length is not greater than 1.610 inches, Freedom Arms Model 97 in 45 Colt is rated by them to have identical pressure limitations as old model Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt revolvers. Braz-tech informed me that my requirement was no problem. I have been doing this for more than seven years without any issues.

Hope this helps.

[kydave]

August 3, 2024 FYI:

This morning I received a response from Mackenzie, Customer Service Specialist at Rossi in response to my question:

"Does the receiver for the 454 Casull receive a different heat treatment than for the .45LC?".

Mackenzie responded:

"The heat treatment is the same for both."

[Harter66]

My research...... Well it fits with all of the above.....more or less .

There have been 2 receivers/parts sets used .
The serial number reflects the Magnum receiver and parts with an M . Such assemblies are suitable for full power 44 mag and smaller dia mags . It is also used for the 454 AT SAAMI ratings and factory loadings .

The current load data for 454 shows it at 65kpsi . Factory I suspect is closer to the 36 kpsi of the 44 mag.

Like others I've run a bunch of 20-25kpsi loads through a 2013 and 1986 examples with M receivers to no detriment .

The 1-32" twist is another matter 1200 fps 454424s consistently upset and turn into curveball riser between 78-82 yd where coincidentally on the 4,000 ft MSL range they were hitting 1100 fps . Of course I've been told that I'm wrong but at 900' MSL they do the same thing about 55 yd . Kind of sad when at 4,000 ft elevation soft balls had a hard way to go at 75 yd . No such situation exists with the loads backed of under 1050 fps but drop sucks . If so you're planning on using your best Ruger load to extend your range with this it doesn't work if it's an SAA your pairing it with it's ok.

[Texas by God]

I had a Rossi PUMA 44-40 and I tried some “back of the Lyman book loads” with enough 2400 to supposedly launch the 200 gr jacketed bullets around 2000 fps!
The action held fine; the brass looked ok-but after a few shots the mag tube jumped about 3” forward….and my shoulder said stop.
I put that in the OK that’s enough of that category!


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[Shawlerbrook]

Steve’s Gunz is the authority on the Rossi 92.

[Griff]

My 45 Colt Short Rifle eats up Ruger Only level loads like popcorn thru a goose. It does fine big pig duty. Although it's general diet are cowboy action loads.
329303

[oldbear1950]

I have to be honest, have not fired any 454s in my Rossi, only because I do not have the brass. I have loaded 45 colt, and fired factory 45 colt, and they all worked fine.
I do know I can load any level 45 colt load and it will work fine in the Rossi. Truth is I may never load any 454s but is nice to know I can if I want too.

[jreidthompson1]

"The 1-32" twist is another matter". As info the current models list 1-24" twist. https://rossiusa.com/rifles/lever-action-rifles/364-r92-brazilian-hardwood-45-colt-polished-stainless-20-in

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[Bazoo]

Not in a Rossi, but in a Winchester 92 in 44 Mag, I run full power 44 Magnum loaded with W296. Pressure wise, It's probably in the 34,000-36,000psi range.

I've heard of folks pushing them into the 50,000psi range, but I've not done so. I don't know that I will, though I find it interesting. I reckon that'd be one way to get a short batch of brass to stretch.

[AlaskaMike]

Not in a Rossi, but in a Winchester 92 in 44 Mag, I run full power 44 Magnum loaded with W296. Pressure wise, It's probably in the 34,000-36,000psi range.

I've heard of folks pushing them into the 50,000psi range, but I've not done so. I don't know that I will, though I find it interesting. I reckon that'd be one way to get a short batch of brass to stretch.

I'm not sure how much I'd push .44 mags in a Rossi. .40 to 45kpsi is probably my comfort limit, and I don't think that would give much performance above 36kpsi.

In the .357 mag though, I routinely shoot 45 to 50kpsi loads. There is much more steel surrounding the chamber in the .357 vs the .44.

I'd love to ream out a .357 Rossi to take .360 Dan Wesson loads just for fun.

[MT Gianni]

Not in a Rossi, but in a Winchester 92 in 44 Mag, I run full power 44 Magnum loaded with W296. Pressure wise, It's probably in the 34,000-36,000psi range.

I've heard of folks pushing them into the 50,000psi range, but I've not done so. I don't know that I will, though I find it interesting. I reckon that'd be one way to get a short batch of brass to stretch.

In Pet loads Ken Waters listed his top loads with a Marlin. The contender manual for 357 with a 10" bbl showed higher velocities from each manufacturer. You pays your money and takes your chances.

[kaiser]

It was either Paco Kelley, Pearce, or one of the other pundits that stated that the '92 .357 Mag would take 50,000 PSI. Since I've got .357 Mag pistols that won't take that kind of pressure and stay together, I don't push the SAMMI specs in the rifle! The longer barrel of the rifle in any of the pistol caliber gives an average of 300 to 400fps more velocity with virtually the same powder charge. My .45 Colt rifle becomes a "magnum" compared to a pistol of the same caliber; I can live with that.

[Bazoo]

I believe it was in Handloader that I read about 50,000 PSI loads for the 92 rifle. Thanks for the reminder.

[danmat]

go read Paco Kellys articles on 92 actions at leverguns.com
Pretty eye opening

[barnetmill]

The Original 92 Winchesters are often said to be extremely strong. Stronger a '94 for example. With modern steel I would think the same to be at as strong in a Rossi 92.