4350?

[Mark Daiute]

Any of you suing IMR4350 with cast? I got intrigued by the idea of using this slow burning powder with cast in my Krags.

All the best,

Mark

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I have been thinking of trying it in my 7MM/06, WITH THE 168GR GC BOOLIT.
But have a lot of WC860 to shoot up 1st.:Fire::Fire:

[BruceB]

In my so-far-limited experiments with the .32 Special (a Marlin Model 36 and a Winchester 64) IMR 4350 delivered the best accuracy in both rifles. Bullet was the RCBS 32-170 in water-dropped wheelweight alloy, and the charge was 31.0grains. I'm at work and don't have the velocity figures handy.

Both rifles have aperture receiver sights, and the accuracy was just fine...clearly better than any other candidate powder.

[SharpsShooter]

I used it in the 8x57, but don't recall the load data. It did ok, but there were better choices in my case. It burns at about the speed of newspaper :D


SS

[Kraschenbirn]

36.5 gr (with a dacron filler) under a hard-cast Ideal 311291 sized .310 produces just under 2000 fps from my early 1920s-vintage "NRA Krag Sporter" Ironsight groups off a sandbag rest run around 2" @ 100M and, shooting prone (no rest), I can usually tag our 8" swinger plate 8 or 9 out of 10 @ 200M.

Bill

[357Mag]

Mark -

F.W.I.W .....

Surplus " D85 " powder is essentially " ball " 4350. DK if that helps ?

357Mag

[wiljen]

4350 is not a good reduced load powder so be careful with reducing charges below listed levels. If you want to reduce charges below what manuals list, you'd be much safer using 4895.

[madsenshooter]

Mark -

F.W.I.W .....

Surplus " D85 " powder is essentially " ball " 4350. DK if that helps ?

357Mag

I think he means DP85, that Accurate once sold surplus. This is a powder that likes pressure to burn. At CB level charges it burns very dirty, and leaves a lot of unburned granules in the case and barrel. They're little tiny granules. I debulleted a round that I'd loaded with it in my Krag once, I can still find some of the little balls in the nooks and crannies! Best use for this stuff is full power loads in 06 or 7.5 Swiss. Meters wonderfully.

[Ronb]

My 35 whelens shoot well with 60 gr and 240 boolits. 2300fps and about 1.5moa

[Mark Daiute]

Actually I was thinking it might make a good powder for cast loads approaching service velocities. Its slow burning... I was thinking 40 grains of 4350 and a 200 grain cast bullet-thereby filling or nearly filling the case whist still being gentle enough for the cast boolit...

All supposition on my part, I was hoping the same idea had occurred to someone else already who could share the results of their own experience.

[madsenshooter]

Mark, tmrw I'll be testing some 180gr loads with WW760 in my Krag. It's in the neighborhood of what you're looking for, and would meter better than 4350. Using the .308 data from Lee's Modern Reloading, shows 40gr of the H flavor 4350 yielding 2080fps and 41,800psi with a 200gr bullet. You'll need a very hard bullet. I sometimes find Lee's data a bit wishy washy though. Something slower, 4831 or some of the 50BMG ball powders, which are cheap, might get you there at a more reasonable pressure. In fact, if you search "WC860 Krag", you'll find some data. Wideners has WC867 for $49/8lb. I've heard it's a little faster than 860, but speed varies by lot. Well, the search didn't work out so good, tell you what, I have some 311284s and some 860, I'll put some together and get back to you tmrw with a report.

I've got em loaded Marked, 51.5gr WC860 under the 311284s, which weigh in at 214gr checked and lubed. I used a WLRM primer. It's supposed to rain tmrw, that's good though, I'll get the range to myself, and I won't forget to take my raindrop deflection chart.

[madsenshooter]

Got it done Mark. I got one velocity reading before the battery on the chrono died. I got 1962fps. You've got a 14gr lower weight bullet, and 867 is supposed to be a tad faster than the 860 I have, it ought to put you in there. I'm sure you've shot service loads, so I won't talk about the recoil. Now I had some dirty stuff in the barrel, I think that's what that big crimp groove on the 311284 is supposed to do, pick up crud like that. The group wasn't all that great, 2.4" ES, either way I measured, but in my haste to get them loaded last night, and being a bit lazy, I sized them .308 for a .308 bored rifle. I'm sure .310 or .311 would have done better. I try to get more done up soon. As mentioned Wideners has the 867. I might do some experiments with duplexing to clean up the burn.

Wow Mark, I got one of those 247gr bullets for the Whisper, the NOE 311247FN. It came up a little short, weight-wise, and in my alloy, weighs 214.3 naked. Lubed and checked, it ought to weigh pretty close to 220gr. I'll be working up a load that'll deliver 2000fps with it. I think this will become THE Krag bullet.

If you think you might not be into those slow burning surplus powders. Something about the speed of 4831 will get you what you want. Going back to Lee's book, and again using .308 data, he shows 41gr of H4831 giving 2010fps to a 225gr bullet @31600psi. Though I haven't tried it myself, I imagine the short cut version of H4831 ought to meter better than the longer.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_12364e693822dcca6.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2077)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_12364e69b14a72b6e.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2084)

[madsenshooter]

Mark, I did a little more digging in Lee's book last night. His pressure figures are based on jacketed bullets! We know that if we take lead and jacketed bullets of the same weight and load them with the same charge, the lead bullet will give more velocity and less pressure. So the best thing for you to do would probably be to start around 35gr of 4350 under your bullet and work up towards that 40gr. Hopefully, you have access to a chronograph to let you know if you've attained the velocity you're after. Sometimes, with cast bullets, it's a matter of "you never know until you try". I had some success with the 760 loads I tried the other day, so I'm going to try some of the DP85, which burns about 4350 speed, under the same bullet next trip out. A little less pressure to achieve the same velocity, with luck, better accuracy.

[tonyjones]

Mark,

The Accurate Loading Guide lists AA 4350 with Lyman 311467 (180 Grn.) in the .30-40 Krag. 39.6 grains gave 2,014 fps and 44.0 grains gave 2,289 fps at 34,500 CUP.

Regards,

Tony

[madsenshooter]

Hey Mark, I got around to trying the 40gr load of DP85 with a couple bullets. You'll want to start lower with the 4350 for sure! With the NOE 311247, which weighed very close to 220gr, I got an average of 2257fps. Pressure was high enough they were all over the target. With a 200gr Eagan bullet I have, I got an average of 2356fps, they too were all over. Also with the NOE bullet, I used a load of 5.5gr 10b101 under 44.5gr of WC860. That gave me an average of 2244fps. Pressure was lower and I almost got a group of it. I had several loads in that velocity range, my shoulder got a workout today. Could be they only had a few cracked locking lugs on that Krag 2200fps load they had in 1898. The soldiers probably just weren't too happy about shooting it!