Stevens' .25-50 CF "rolling block"

[offshore44]

I was out looking for tools this weekend, and one of the shops that I stopped at had a .25-50 Stevens rolling block rifle for sale. Pretty cool little thing. It looked to be in about 85% or so condition, no rust and no big buggers in the wood. The rifling actually looked to be in pretty fair shape as well, or at least I have shot Mausers with worse bores.

It sure looks like it was a shutzen rifle. Same butt iron and sights.

I've got a couple of questions for the crew. Can this thing be shot with any accuracy, if it checks out? Can a person get brass for it? It looks like it takes small rifle primers...but I don't know for sure.

If anyone has any ideas on this thing, I would be glad to hear about them. Information, anecdotes, tall tales, whatever...

Thanks a bunch!

[Jon K]

Sounds like a Stevens Model 44.....but 25-50??? Never heard of it, and sounds awful big for a Stevens 44 action.

Jon

[Reg]

25-20 Single Shot caliber. A good round. Dies, brass, etc, are out there. If the bore is in good condition, it will most likely shoot better than you can hold it.
Could be either a Model 44 or 44 1/2. The 44 1/2 is the most desirable but do not sell the old Model 44 short.

[smilie=f:

[Jon K]

[LEFT]


44 1/2 is a Falling Block.

44 is a Rolling Block. 25-20 SS/25-21/25-25, and even a few 25-20 WCF(Conversions, or late special order).

There has been a few posts here on the 25-20 SS. I have one, I'm using current production Jamison brass from BACO.
I'm waiting for NOE .260 80gr. It shoots pretty good now, but I
think it will shoot even better with a .260 boolit. Bore groove is .260 at the breach end.

Jon

[uscra112]

Model 44 isn't really a rolling block. The hammer doesn't support the breechblock in any way. But it ain't a falling block, either. Perfectly safe in .25-20SS if the rifle is in good condition, and loaded rationally. Stevens even sold 44s in .32-40, but that was a little too much - they shot loose rather quickly. .32-20 is my personal limit for the 44 action. (I've got five or six of 'em, mostly .25-20SS.)

.25-20 SS is quite an accurate number, very popular as a squirrel rifle on the old B.P. days. A few guys are using them for 200 yard target competition in the ASSRA. They use AA #9 and breech seat a plain base cast boolit, per their rules. Usually 100 grains, but common 86 grain boolits shoot well. M.o.A. groups are quite possible with a good one, if it's not too windy. Dies are a bit pricey, but available.

If it's got a Schuetzen buttplate, I'd snap it up in New York minute, unless the asking price is north of, say $750. Even at that, I'd give it a real serious look. Collector-grade Schuetzen-styled 44s are bringing anything up to $2K nowadays.

For several years I was using a Model 44 1/2 Stevens in .25-20 SS with a Fecker scope for chucks on the farm. Never missed one, but my longest shots were only 70 yards or so. I quit using it only because of the ricochet problem - J-words that are properly frangible at .25-20 speeds just aren't made. Had to give up some shots for lack of a solid backstop. (I now use a .22 Lovell R2, a wildcat based on the .25-20SS case, with V-Max or Blitz J-words.)

[offshore44]

Yup, it really isn't a rolling block per se...but that was the closest description that I could come up with. They shop is asking $2,000 for it, but the guy is ready to get it out the door. so who knows.

I've looked at it twice now, and each time the fella behind the counter drags out a .25-50 cartridge that goes with it ($8 a round) and shows it off. The rifle and the round are labeled .25-50. That round is almost as long as my little finger, and about as big around as a pencil. Very noticeable taper to it. It is interesting, but a little rich for my blood.

Still looking for a single shot... Something with a hammer. It would be nice, I suppose if it shot .44 Rem Mag like my revolver (cast, of course!). Maybe something in .35 - .38 caliber that could shoot paper patched would be nice. I'm pretty ignorant in this arena.

Well, thanks for the info folks! I do appreciate it.

Edited to add: I've got Grandpa's slide action Marlin .25-20, the barrel is pretty shot out. He used it a lot!

[excess650]

Stevens 44s were made in 38-55, and those early CF 44s had a different hammer that helped keep the block closed.

The .25-25 was a longish, straight cartridge. The only longer, more tapered .25 of that era might have been the .25-36 Marlin or .25-35 Winchester. The 28-30 was also a longish, tapered cartridge.

[uscra112]

Never heard of a .25-50 cartridge. Standard Stevens .25 cartridges were the .25-20SS, the .25-21 (got one of those, too) and the .25-25. But two grand is collector pricing for that one. You can often fine plain-Ed Model 44s for $600 or so. (I don't think I've ever paid more, and I have several.)

If you want something that'll handle 44 Mag., and costs not much, maybe see if the New England Firearms break-open Handi-rifle can be had in that chambering? Some people are getting pretty good accuracy from them. And there's always the Thompson/Center Contender or Encore. I've got a Gen 1 Contender which has become an addiction. Three barrels and counting.

[offshore44]

Never heard of a .25-50 cartridge. Standard Stevens .25 cartridges were the .25-20SS, the .25-21 (got one of those, too) and the .25-25. But two grand is collector pricing for that one. You can often fine plain-Ed Model 44s for $600 or so. (I don't think I've ever paid more, and I have several.)

If you want something that'll handle 44 Mag., and costs not much, maybe see if the New England Firearms break-open Handi-rifle can be had in that chambering? Some people are getting pretty good accuracy from them. And there's always the Thompson/Center Contender or Encore. I've got a Gen 1 Contender which has become an addiction. Three barrels and counting.

Never heard of one either, until I actually held this one. Did a search for brass, and came up empty handed. Did find a couple of references to the cartridge being a target cartridge though.

When I was looking around, I did run across several mentions of a .38-55 cartridge. That piqued my interest... Plus the sticky thread here...

[pietro]

The 44-1/2 is a falling block.

The weaker 44 is known as a swinging block action - the dropping block's pivot point is below & ahead of the rear of the bbl.

.

[uscra112]

Never heard of one either, until I actually held this one. Did a search for brass, and came up empty handed. Did find a couple of references to the cartridge being a target cartridge though.

When I was looking around, I did run across several mentions of a .38-55 cartridge. That piqued my interest... Plus the sticky thread here...

You're saying that the case is actually headstamped .25-50?

A picture would be of the greatest interest. Or accurate dimensions. Base diameter, rim diameter case length, neck diameter, sketch of the headstamp, etc.

Phil

[GOPHER SLAYER]

OFFSHORE, I have never heard of the 25-50 cartridge either and I have studied single shots for decades. My book on single shots by Grant is still packed from the recent move or I would look for information on the cartridge. It must be one long case to hold fifty grains of any kind of powder.I have owned Steven's 44 1/2 and have one now in 22 rimfire but never a 44. I never wanted one before and I don't want one now. The action is just too weak. I saw one chambered for 32.40 that was factory engraved. It had been wrecked with a mild load of smokeless powder. A very good smith/machinest bought it, welded the action and chambered it for 22 rimfire. I would offer this advice to anyone thinking of buying any firearm, old or new, if you don't know a lot about the gun, seek advice from a more knowledgable person. Our money is becoming worth less everyday, but two grand is still a lot of scratch.

[offshore44]

You're saying that the case is actually headstamped .25-50?

A picture would be of the greatest interest. Or accurate dimensions. Base diameter, rim diameter case length, neck diameter, sketch of the headstamp, etc.

Phil

Yupper'! .25-50, mark on the rifle and headstamp on the cartridge. I don't remember what the manufacturers mark is on the cartridge for sure...sorry.

So it's a swinging block? Never heard of such a thing, but I have a pretty narrow set of knowledge in this arena, so that's not a surprise.

I'll take the wife's camera over in the next few days and see what I can get. The guy that runs the place is pretty nice.

I'll take some pictures of the rifle as well, if I can.

[pietro]

I finally dug out my old Stevens catalog No.51.

The .25 cal chamberings offered therein were:

.25 Stevens RF
.25/20 Stevens Single Shot CF (not .25WCF)
.25/21 CF
.25/25 CF
.25/35 CF

.

[bob208]

i have a 44 in .32-40 it does well with black powder. i would never try smokless in it. i had to make new pins for it.

[jon skorepa]

they also offered 22-15-60 long thin cartridge check out barns cartridges of the world also some manufacturer who made extra large bp cartridges and re-chambered rifles for their cartridges can't recall the brand sorry jon

[uscra112]

=offshore44;1368416So it's a swinging block? Never heard of such a thing, but I have a pretty narrow set of knowledge in this arena, so that's not a surprise..

I can't think of another one like it made in the USA, except for some .22 rimfire "boys' rifles", of which Stevens' own Favorite was the best and most popular. I've seen pics of one or two German actions that used the same basic layout. It's relatively cheap to make, but not inherently very strong, so it there wasn't much incentive to copy it, I reckon.

[HORNET]

Actually, the old Stevens Favorite isn't all that weak IF the breechblock actually hits the locking shoulders in the body and is cammed slightly forward when closing. That is what the slot for the front pivot pin is intended to allow and is fairly common on the old actions. Unfortunately, their designers didn't realize this when they revived it and almost all the newer ones that I've seen have about 1/16" gap where it should have contact. This means that they only lock up on the pins, a much weaker design.

[uscra112]

I have only one Favorite, a 1915-series. It is not "slotted" at the pivot pin, and I have no knowledge of any that are. Certainly none of my Model 44s are "slotted". What am I missing?