goex cartridge powder

[bigted]

quick question here...has anybody had trouble getting great accuracy out of the cartridge powder from Goex?

looking back over my notes i see that this is the only powder i have used for all my experiments with cartridges. i have a bunch as a result of a trade and was pretty sure that i could get a load developed with it for my guns...but no luck so far. was just wondering if there is some reasson that this powder is the culprit.

ive got some 2 f goex that im gonna switch to and start over but just wanted to know others experience with this cartridge powder...also maybe this powder has been badly stored as i dont know the history of it. my storage keeps it dry and cool but maybe it hasnt gotten this treatment all its life.

thanks

[Don McDowell]

All of the Cartridge I've ever shot has been very accurate. It's velocity has been a little lower than some of the others, but the accuracy has always been top notch.

[littlejack]

Bigted, after hearing that the Goex Cartridge was going to be a thing of the past, I switched to Goex FF. I haven't looked back. My Uberti shoots very fine with the FF loads. I haven't clocked the loads yet, but I believe that the loads are running a little faster. I may even be getting 1100 fps. WOW!!!!!!!!!!
Jack

[littlejack]

Hey Don, I have been busy doin honey-do's for the wife.
I will start on the pp loads when the list gets shorter. LOL
Jack

[Don McDowell]

Been there done that, still doing it.....
Hope they treat you nice when you do get to try them.

[littlejack]

Yes Sir Don, thanks.

[John Boy]

Grain size ratio differences for Goex CTG and FFg
Goex Cartridge – (05-37) 02OC07B
12 mesh – 0.62% retained
14 mesh – 0.03% retained
20 mesh – 97.54% retained
30 mesh – 01.70% retained
Through – 0.11%

Goex 2Fg
20 mesh - 79.2% retained
30 mesh - 20.8% retained

Reason CTG is slower is because it has no 30 mesh grains, usually the basic grain size in FFFg powder

[WARD O]

Goex powders usually like some compression - have you been playing with that?

Ward

[montana_charlie]

i have a bunch as a result of a trade
Is all that you have from the same lot number?

CM

[bigted]

ive played with the compression as far as the different grainage perscribes and when more compression is needed then an 1/8th inch... i compress with a compression tool before seating the boolit.

ill have to check the lot numbers charlie...never occurred to me that it may be different mix of lot numbers.

so has goex stopped making the cartridge powder then?

thanks all and ive got some more ground to cover i guess before i give up on the cartridge. just occurred to me that this is the only constant in all my foolin round so thought just maybe it could be the culprit

a quick question if i may...how to i go about getting more compression with say the 61 grain load when the load column is...61 grains [drop tubed] over a 38cal primer wad of yellow notebook paper...an 1/8th inch felt over powder wad ...my lyman 457125 520 grain boolit greesed with 50/50 bee wax/crisco and around 1/4 cup peanut oil added when rendered under low heat///pan lubed?

do i just add another felt over powder wad to add compression? guess i never thought to try that either.

[Don McDowell]

Ted you need to get that charge up to 70 grs.
I use a lyman M die to compress the powder, just pour the powder in the case, thumb your wad on top and then run it into the M die to the depth needed to seat the bullet without putting any pressure on the nose.

[Tammany42]

Any reason for not using FFFg (2F)? It burns cleaner and has a better pressure curve. Just my two cents?

[Gunlaker]

Ted you may have tried this already, but when I was playing around with loads in the 63gr range a few years ago, I found a dramatic increase in accuracy with the use of magnum primers. Generally these days I use higher powder charges which seem to be a little less sensetive to primer type ( although I still find that a primer change can easily be worth an inch or more at 200m ). I'm currently fine tuning a load for my CSA 1885 in .45-70 that's using 82gr of Goex FFg Express and a tapered driving band bullet seated way out. There is maybe 1/8 inch compression on that load :razz:

Chris.

[Old Caster]

When Goex is poured into a case, the column height of it will vary more than some other powders. What you need to do is pour the charge very slowly into the case through the funnel which will settle it even better than using a drop tube and it will then be a consistant height. I'm talking about 8 second or more, pours, or about as slow as you can pour it. This makes the compression more consistant. A powder that is way worse about this same thing is Pyrodex. This is the reason so many people have trouble getting Pyrodex to shoot well in a cartridge gun. In my 40/65 Pyrodex can vary about 1/4 inch or more in height if you don't pour the same every time. It likes to be compressed somewhere about .170 to .190 so it can't have very much of a varying column height. Goex is just as important but won't vary as much. Swiss won't vary no matter what you do and I think that is why so many people have good luck with it and so many don't like Goex as well.

[cajun shooter]

Ted, I purchased a case when I received the news of no more being made. It has been so far my most accurate powder with one exception and that is Swiss. I get tickled when loaders try to compare Goex and Swiss as they are two different powders from the start.
The swiss grain size is quite different from the American grain size. What they call 2F is closer to Goex 3F. The 1 1/2 Swiss is close to Goex2F. They use the best wood and take more time in the complete process.
When Hodgdon took over the Goex plant, I was very worried that the sport shooter of black powder may be in for hard times. Recent events have proven that my beliefs have come to be fact. They fired several top people that had several years at Goex. I was told by an inside source that one entire shift was laid off with one man with about 5 years on the job left to run the plant. My guess is that all of this has led to the recent explosion and shut down.
Ted, The first thing that must be done is to anneal all your cases. This step alone will shrink groups. If you drop tube 68 grains of Cartridge into the Starline cases. Then use a .030 Walters wad over the powder before using your compression die. You need to compress the powder so that the 535 gr. Postell will seat to the last driving band.
This load has put one large hole at 100 yards and very close to the same at 200 yards. The lube used was NASA. I have also had good results loading the 44-40 with Cartridge powder although I don't use it for SASS. It is the victim of another poor decision from Hodgdon.

[Gunlaker]

Also Ted, don't forget that there are lots of things that affect accuracy in these rifles other than just the load.

Getting to 2 MOA is easy. Getting from there to 1.5 MOA and a bit less has taken me a fair bit of effort and experimentation in some rifles. I can't say regarding 1 MOA as I have no BP rifles that will yet do that consistently :-)

With respect to things that are not load related, here is what I've been doing.

1) resting the barrel consistently. All of my rifles shoot well when rested about 2" in front of the forearm. I've got quite a few different rifles from a 34" standard weight Shiloh, heavy barreled high walls, and a 30" bull barreled Shiloh and it works for all of them. The light barreled Shiloh is quite picky regarding this. The heavy ones less so.

2) fouling control. I almost always wipe rather than blow tube. 30% Ballistol , 70 % water. Reasonably tight fitting patches, one wet pushed all the way through, one wet pushd to muzzle, pulled back to breech and then pushed out muzzle, and one final dry patch.

3) my best targets have almost always been shot in the morning when the air is calm and the light is good.

Chris.