225 grain 45 cal from a 9mm!!!!

[BT Sniper]

I'll have some pics posted tonight but yes it can be done and it looks like a heck of a bullet. Even got the base of the 9mm to swell all the way to .451:shock:

I'll return later with pics.

Good shooting

BT

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

even got the base of the 9mm to swell all the way to .451:shock: BT

Now that's just crazy talk lol :twisted:

[GRUMPA]

And how many water buffalo did it take to sit on that handle to smoosh it to that size?

[DDriller]

Stop it! That is all. [smilie=1:

[GRUMPA]

Dang Brian has me wondering how he did it, all I got to swage with is a rockchucker. I would imagine with the amount of force required to do that if my chucker could talk it would be screaming at me.

[BT Sniper]

It's all in the tools and technique. Didn't take any more force then was necessary. Used my modified Lee Classic Press. I'll show you guys soon, got to upload pics. Just got back from taking family out for dinner. I'll use the RC next to make sure there is no problems. I expanded the case first before seating the core. :)

BT

[BT Sniper]

Of all the calibers so far the 45 has been the most challenging for me. There really isn't a readily avialble case that works perfect for a jacket, like the 40 or 44 cals, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done. Heck anything is possible. So if you guys have the patience we can use either a 40 S&W and/or a 9mm to make a very good looking 230ish grain 45 cal bullet with.

The 40 S&W is actually a very good canadite and we have several shooters here allready making great bullets with it and great results but to get the nominal weight of 230ish grains in a 45 with the 40S&W case takes a trimmer or we roll the case over on it's self while forming the bullet. Notching the jacket helps a lot to. For anyone wanting a 255 grain 45 cal bullet simply use the 40 S&W case as is with the 40 cal 175grain cast boolit for a core and you are good to go. Same receipt as the 44s we make.

A while back a friend of mine gave me some 9mms he had expanded to .445. Well it was a while for me to grasp the concept and achieve the same results but for a 45cal bullet of about 225 grains or less the 9mm will actually work quite well from the looks of it. IT takes a few extra steps and the settings of the dies is a bit more critical while expanding the case but as you will see the results look pretty good.

I had to give the 9mm an extra full force anneal to be sure it was good and soft. My BBQ may not have got them soft enough but a dirrect flame from a tourch while the case was sitting on a fire brick made things a lot easier.

So here you go....

First pic is process of expanding the body of the case same way you would expand the neck of a rifle case up to next calibers for wildcating. It took two passes in the universal notch die with expanding mandrels to get case up to .445. You see the standard 9mm on the left and expanded body in the middle. On the right is the finished jacket with base expanded out as well. This is the tricky part. Only hint I'll give you is I did not have the core in place to complete this step. :) It was not difficult and can be done on a good quality press but the setting of the die is a bit more precise as it can generate a lot of pressure if set wrong. You will be able to feel when to much is to much.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050980.jpg





Here you see the base of the standard 9mm next to the .451 9mm and 40 S&W
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050982.jpg





Last pic is of the two bullets, both 225 grains, one on left is from 9mm and one on right is from Untrimed 40 S&W. YEP UNTRIMED 40S&W is on the right. I was able to roll the top of the jacket into the HP and then form the bullet but that is another story all together.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050981.jpg




I'm making some pretty good progress with the 45 cal possibilities. Seems with have a few choices now to get us that perfect 230 grain bullet, 1. airsoft BBs 2. roll the excess jacket in on it's self when using the 40S&W 3. trim the 40 or 4. use a 9mm :)

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[BT Sniper]

How about a rebated boat tail 45 cal? this is what you would get skipping the final step in swelling the base of the case. Results are not always this good as the base isnot allways perfectly centered with the axis of the bullet.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050986.jpg


I've actually seen custom swaged pistol bullets with a large BT on them, think the maker called them "man stopers" or somthing like that if I rember. Anyway just a look at another option though maybe not the best option.

BT

[BT Sniper]

and here is a look at that 225 grain 45 cal made from untrimed 40 S&W brass with the jacket rolled into it's self at the top. Still anouther 3 or 4 steps but can be done.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050985.jpg


Swage On!

BT

[BT Sniper]

All you 45 cal shooters out there, could you post a few pics of your 45 cal bullets loaded or not. It has always seemed that CH makes the nose/ogive of there dies and resulting bullets right at the max length possible. When I decide for my own designed 45 cal die set I plan to shorten the nose a bit. Same way I did the 40. A set of my own design 45s though is well in to next year on the priority list though so in the mean time for all you interested I'll be offering these improved versions of the CH dies.

BT

[kneerg]

I have heard of making 45 bullets from 45 acp brass

[DukeInFlorida]

That would require LOT of re-working, and certainly a trim.

Much easier to start off smaller in diameter, and size UP, rather than going the other way.

Possible though.


I have heard of making 45 bullets from 45 acp brass

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050980.jpg

Here you see the base of the standard 9mm next to the .451 9mm and 40 S&W
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050982.jpg
Good shooting and Swage On, BT

Well,
That's just awesome.

It'd be fun to toss out a few of those expanded 9mm cases...um I mean jackets on the ground at the range, and watch the fun as a few of the scroungers pick them up and ponder..."what the heck ? "
Jon

[Link23]

if i sent some 9mm that have already been annealed and some money for "shipping" do you think i could get some of these to do a range test?

Link23

[GRUMPA]

BT you ever TRY and do that on the RC yet? With the 9m I mean.

[BT Sniper]

Grumpa,

Just sent your dies to you. They looked great! Everything you need. No 9mm punch yet. I'm positive the RC can do it! I just don't have a base punch yet to fit the RC. I have a threaded one that works just fine with no more power then a LEE Classic can muster. So the RC should have no problems.

BT

[GRUMPA]

:-P[smilie=w: It's Cristmas in August. Bad thing is I had to buy my own present. I must have done something in another life. [smilie=b:

[Dannix]

Wow, this is impressive.


JonB, that range "experiment" would indeed be fun. :mrgreen:

[b2riesel]

I've duplicated this on my RCIV...ofcourse mine has now been modified since I broke my lower linkage a while back and machined new parts out of steel but I think the old linkage would handle this part of the process quite easily.

I'll say I have duplicated the expanding of the brass using parts I bought from Brian. Just using two different sized mandrels, the body of the BT Notch Die and a bottom punch Brian made for me that is threaded into the ram. You have to make sure you really anneal the brass good though...the second or third one I did....I broke a Hornady LNL die bushing...I've converted my RCIV using the Hornady upgrade kit....snapped it right off with the force. I did have some problem removing the brass from the mandrel even after lubing the hell out both the mandrel and the brass.

I don't yet have the final swage die...but I can make the brass...mine comes out at: .4485

[b2riesel]

Ok...after writing the above I quickly did a few more...using THREE mandrels and have now achieved .451 using Winchester brass instead of the thick walled Aguila brass. The Winchester brass also removed from the mandrel easier. A lot more work than 9mm to .40 S&W but 9mm is almost free and I would rather keep my .40 S&W brass for actually shooting.

[BT Sniper]

B2,

Keep the brass at around .448 rather then the .451 though I'm sure both would work. The core seat die is really needed with the 45s and it is right around .449ish.

Using my universal die with the expanding mandrels will really show you if you get some brass that is not fully annealed.

Have you figured out how to flatten the base/head of the case yet?

Let me know if you need some 45 cal dies. I'm also working on the 22 cals for you as well.

Good shooting

BT

[b2riesel]

Ok...I'll keep the brass at .448 instead of at .451...I just read your post of a pic where you said the 9mm was at .451 without the core seated and I stuck a larger mandrel in for a third step and got it to .451.

In my case...I use the mandrel for the 9 to 40 step first to open it up...then I use the 44 cal mandrel to open it up more...I back off on the die so that the pressure is only at the very end of the ram stroke..and tighten 1/2 turn...press it...give the die another 1/4 turn....press it....after about three of these the bottom is flat and the same size as the rest of the brass.

What really was cool is that the primer grows in size as well...not too much..but I can tell visually that it has...and also the flash hole has grown....about 1/32nd of an inch...but enough where I can visually see it.

I do want some .45 dies...but I really need the 22 cals first. I also want a .308 set and I think I mentioned to you that if you have a set that is messed up and needs to go larger...I'll be interested in a .323 set. I've really....really...really come to love my Yugo M48 Mauser that is both a beauty to the eye and a beauty to shoot. If I somehow get drawn for the Elk Lottery next year in Kentucky I'll be putting one down with the Mauser.

Shoot me a PM with the prices...I've spent way too much this year on reloading...but I've spent WAY too much on more rifles...but I think I can work something else into my budget.

Oh..and maybe think of a nice die for making some 7.62x54r...I got a feeling I'll be wanting to squish some jhp's for the long russian next year.

[BT Sniper]

Reviving this thread with a bump. I need to experiment a bit more with this concept of using 9mms for 45 cal jackets. If I can perfect it to the point I can recamend it to my customers I'll start offering the necessary tools. Maybe someday I'll even have a 45acp to shoot some out of :) Even now I look at some of these things I've done and wonder how did I do that? Guess we better all start wrighting this stuff down before we forget. I must be getting old :) God help us if this server of castboolits ever takes a dump.... nock, nock, nock on wood! I shouldn't even say such things. Great bunch of info here.

Merry Christmas guys

BT

[Swageocast]

Anybody saving the webpages of interest to there HDD??

They can be viewed offline,,,,sure it eats a little space but sure beats writing it out longhand yea?

Just a thot! :-)