why are 308 bullets so expensive? jacketed type

[beex215]

he cheapest ive seen are the 100-10 gr short jackets and they are 12-15 bucks for 100. i understand if its alot heavier and has a ballistic tip but the above is the cheapest? i need to test some reloaded jackets vs my terrible lead 1st batch.

[btroj]

ALL jacketed bullets are expensive. Metal prices are up.
This is why many of us shoot almost only cast.

[462]

"why are 308 bullets so expensive? jacketed type"

Why do I cast boolits?

[beex215]

i cast too and its alot of savings compared to jackets. thin copper adds that much of a price.

[noylj]

Price seems very much in line with other bullets. I am sure that the swaging of a long thin bullet is more difficult that a short stubby pistol bullet and they are running in the $0.10-$0.20/bullet range for jacketed. Thank God for Montana Gold, PD, and Zero.
Google spot market price for lead and copper.
Also, if there is a little plastic tip, something has to mold the tip and something else has to place it in the mold before swaging or install it afterwards.
All bullets are expensive; however, it is a competitive market meaning market forces will tend to drive the price down if supply is greater than demand at a given price point. Thank God we aren't totally in Obama's vision of heaven.

[tomme boy]

Because there are a lot more people shooting now than ever. So, they will charge whatever the market will pay. Most do not know what it cost even 5 years ago. It makes me sick to look back even 5 years ago and see what I was paying for components. $13.95/1000 primers, $14.95/100 168 Sierra HPBTs. $98/8lb Varget,H4350. Should have bought more.

[MtGun44]

The cost of raw materials is up about 3-4X, so the cost of jacketed bullets is up maybe
2-3X. The labor component hasn't gone up too much. Also, today's jacketed bullets are
FAR better in concentricity, jacket thickness and other dimensional way PLUS we have
much better effectiveness on the target from most of our current crop of j-bullets. This
increase in manufacturing precision has to cost some more, too.

Yep, they are expensive, but unless the price of copper and lead comes down, it can't change.

year_ 1990 1995 2000 2005 2011
Copper 1.35 1.53 0.97 1.92 4.40
Lead_ ---- ~0.40 ~0.25 0.50 1.20

China and India are both growing extremely rapidly and have HUGE populations. China has
1.3 billion people (1,300 million) and India has about 1,000 million people. The US has about
300 million people.

They are just turning the corner from no electricity and bicycles for most people to having more
and more electricity (copper wires by the millionss of miles). Also, lead is not mined in many countries
any more due to enviro laws. One of every 5 people on the planet is Chinese and they are just
starting to suck up resources like metals and fuels in large quantities, causing shortages around
the world. These shortages force the prices up as competing users bid against each other for
scarce commodoties.

Bill

PS Why does this darned thing keep removing my spaces and screwing up my formatting? Can't
put in tabs, either. Is there a way to do this to preserve formatting?

[GRUMPA]

beex215 I think what your looking at is sticker shock for the most part. Not knowing the area you live in try and give this some thought. We ALL know the price is just going up and up, Buy j-words where they can be found at a good price. Places like garage sales estate sales gun shows, even if you pick up the ones that are cheap from sources like those mentioned and even if they're not the type caliber you shoot, trade them in forums for what you do want. I trade for things here and there and believe me that set up works wonders.

[cbrick]

Why are 308 bullets so expensive? jacketed type

Now wait a minute, are you trying to say they still make those ugly things with the full length gas checks? That would sure be a strange & silly thing to do, I wonder why.

Rick

[deltaenterprizes]

Maybe because there is a war going on and plenty are being shot at bad guys. Military sniper ammo uses Sierra Matchkings.

[XWrench3]

Because sales are still up. If people would slow down on how many they buy, the price would come down. The problem is that to many americans do not remember that supply and demand is how pricing works in this country. When demand is high, and supply is low, prices go up. When demand is low, and supply is high, prices go down.

[beex215]

i always come into a different hobby at the wrong times. i guess ill just have to fork it over. thanks for the info.

[Huntducks]

It has nothing to do with how many people are buying bullets or the war or hording or them evil big Co. sticking it to you (bho) sounding

It's all about the price of Lead and Copper.

2 weeks ago I sold 156lbs of #1 copper at a local scrap yard $3.80 a lb 2mo ago it was $4.12lb with a high this year of $4.40 4 year ago it was .70 to .90 a lb.

[mooman76]

Not much better but maybe this helps.http://www.hi-techammo.com/

[JeffinNZ]

he cheapest ive seen are the 100-10 gr short jackets and they are 12-15 bucks for 100. i understand if its alot heavier and has a ballistic tip but the above is the cheapest? i need to test some reloaded jackets vs my terrible lead 1st batch.

Wish I could buy them that cheap.

[Hang Fire]

ALL jacketed bullets are expensive. Metal prices are up.
This is why many of us shoot almost only cast.

Ditto on that.

I have a few thou jacketed bullets in reserve, but for many years have only loaded and shot cast.

[Hang Fire]

Maybe because there is a war going on and plenty are being shot at bad guys. Military sniper ammo uses Sierra Matchkings.

Compared to past wars and ammo expended, the current shooting ones we are involved in are small potatoes.

[buck1]

GREED as well as metal prices have gone up. When Obummer got somehow elected everyone bought all they could to stock up creating shortages and prices shot up. Now they know we will pay that much so prices are not likely to drop.

[sirgknight]

If demand deminishes, the prices WILL come down because they can't eat them!!
:Luvcastboolits:

[MtGun44]

I think pretty much all US military small arms ammo (other than specialty) is made here
in the KC area at Lake City Ammunition Plant. IIRC, in WW2 there were something like
15-20 ammo plants turning out ammo. I'm sure that the war needs are somewhat of an
issue, but like Hang Fire says, nothing like WW2.

Bill

[Old Caster]

Has anyone ever heard of inflation because of printing so much paper money with nothing to back it up. The reason metals are so expensive is because it is a worldwide market and that is what the world now thinks of our dollar. I doubt seriously if they will go down any appreciable amount because of the environmental concerns associated with mining. Recently the lead mines in Peru owned by the same mining group that used to be in Missouri were shut down because of the high lead levels in the miners. Since the miners can't feel the affects of lead immediately they foolishly don't follow the rules and consequently suffer the effects.

[onesonek]

3 points made cover alot of it,,,,demand by China and other developing country's, supply and demand issues revolving around Obama's election with shooting components, and the devaluation of the Dollar. Then add increased energy cost, affecting both manufacturing and shipping.

[mroliver77]

Bill

PS Why does this darned thing keep removing my spaces and screwing up my formatting? Can't
put in tabs, either. Is there a way to do this to preserve formatting?

Bill,
It started this a few months back. I asked and got no information on it. I never used a space between paragraphs before as I figured the indentation was good enough. Now I use the space and it helps but really miss the ability to use indentation. I assume it has something to do with compression or another space saving program.
Jay

[fatelk]

A very few short years ago (5 or 6 maybe) I was buying surplus M2 30-06 bullets for a nickel each. Of course commercial bullets were more than that, but I'm not convinced at all that it's all about the price of metal. In fact I'm not inclined to think that the cost of metals is even the biggest factor.

Take a 150 gr. jacketed bullet; guessing maybe 100gr. lead and 50gr. copper. Figure those 1990 vs. 2011 prices. The actual metal value of that bullet would have come to 1.5 cents in '90 vs. 4.8 cents now.

That is a huge increase percentage wise, but calculates to a raw materials price increase of only $3.30 per 100 in those 21 years. I guarantee they have gone up a lot more than that. Of course the cost of manufacturing has gone up as well, and inflation, demand, and devalued dollar are big factors also.

[69papatango]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-forced-to-import-bullets-from-israel-as-troops-use-250000-for-every-rebel-killed-508299.html

[Old Caster]

It is typical for a devalued dollar to hit in these kind of places first, including oil and other comodities. In a year or so inflation will hit everything else just as it did because of Jimmy Carter in the late 70's. My mother in law(91) still thinks that was a great time because she got 15% interest on her money in money market accounts. Some people just don't understand what inflation and a devalued dollar means.

[smlekid]

wow if I walk into a shop in Australia I wll be paying anywhere from $50-$60 a hundred for Sierra 168gr match kings over $300 for a 4kg keg of powder and $50-$60 a 1000 for primers
we wish we could get stuff at the prices you guys get things!!!
Nosler has dropped in price here though I just orginised a groupbuy locally fopr 6.5 and 308 custom compition bullets they ran at $250/1000 for 6.5 and $279/1000 for 308 (155 or 168)

[JeffinNZ]

wow if I walk into a shop in Australia I wll be paying anywhere from $50-$60 a hundred for Sierra 168gr match kings over $300 for a 4kg keg of powder and $50-$60 a 1000 for primers
we wish we could get stuff at the prices you guys get things!!!
Nosler has dropped in price here though I just orginised a groupbuy locally fopr 6.5 and 308 custom compition bullets they ran at $250/1000 for 6.5 and $279/1000 for 308 (155 or 168)

You're wasting your time Kid. They don't believe us.[smilie=b:

[mpmarty]

I don't mind the price rise at all as three years ago I bought a thousand shares of OLIN.

[MtGun44]

Jeff,

I can see why you guys cast. Those prices are breathtaking. I think there isn't much
difference between the Aussy $ and the US $, but I have no idea where the Kiwi $ is
these days.

Even a parity, those are high prices. If I ever go to NZ, I'll bring a bunch of Sierras and
Hornadys with me to trade off to the local shooters.

Bill

[cast367]

Beex215,
You have complanes about the prices.I can tell you the prices in Holland.
.30 Bullits , speer or hornady. The lowest price is 25 till 30euro /100 pcs.
math bullits higher price.
Powder Vito Vu 100 serie between 65 till 70 euro / kilo
USA powder 44 euro/ lbs
primers , 30 till 35 euro/1000. fiochi 25 euro/1000
Reason that I cast many years and with succes.
In my opinion , the USA is a shooters MEKKA.

[onesonek]

Jeff,

I can see why you guys cast. Those prices are breathtaking. I think there isn't much
difference between the Aussy $ and the US $, but I have no idea where the Kiwi $ is
these days.

Even a parity, those are high prices. If I ever go to NZ, I'll bring a bunch of Sierras and
Hornadys with me to trade off to the local shooters.

Bill

Better go quick Bill.

I suspect the far left members in this new 12 member so called, super committee/super congress, will hold the conservative members hostage (using their term) with the Defense Budget. As a result, I see them going after the firearms industry with more tax hikes. If that does happen, how much,,, I wouldn't hazard a guess, but then again it wouldn't suprise me any, if current firearms/components taxes double.

[Harter66]

As an aid to cast367 the Euro is about 1 to 3 US last time I looked.

My buddy just paid$29/100 for SSTs the cost has finally broken him and is forcing him to reload .He's spent$600 on his hunting season+ tags and wont be able to scout his 1st hunt until 3days before it opens. Im hurting too I was going replace some decoys this year, nope I bought lighter moulds instead.

Flat out 30cal bullets are so high because there is demand and we're paying it. Now find a box of 32s odds are they will be cheap and covered w/dust. Shotgun wads are still cheap too why ,because for the last 10 years they've been cheaper to buy than load. On sale preseason and post anyway.

[beex215]

is it possible to load a 308 case with a 7.62x39 bullet?

[MtGun44]

1.00 Euro is about $1.40, at least it was in June.

Bill

[1Shirt]

Agree with just about every thing in previous threads. That said, there is also the issue of the Mfg. getting what ever the market will bare. And they have other costs inclusive of advertizing, up grade, research, testing, etc.etc.etc. Thats why I shoot mostly cast. If ya think 30's are expensive, check out 375's and larger. And if they are premium blts it is even worse. A buck plus is not uncommon in that arena. And with the big ones, you don't even want to check on loaded ammo. $2.50 to 4.00 a shot is not uncommon.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[cast367]

BEEX215

Yes it can. Ik reload many times a 123grs bullit.Lapua or an other brand.
But I prefer a 180 or 200 cast bullit.

[BAGTIC]

Maybe because there is a war going on and plenty are being shot at bad guys. Military sniper ammo uses Sierra Matchkings.

There aren't that many snipers and they are not firing that many shots. We bury more copper in landfills daily than they have used in a ten year war.

[BAGTIC]

Because sales are still up. If people would slow down on how many they buy, the price would come down. The problem is that to many americans do not remember that supply and demand is how pricing works in this country. When demand is high, and supply is low, prices go up. When demand is low, and supply is high, prices go down.

Ammunition is such a trivial fraction of the total demand for raw materials that the market wouldn't notice if we all dried up a blew away.