Undersized Lee Minie mold:paper patch?

[Tedly]

I jumped the gun and bought a Lee minie bullet mold before I checked the actual bore size and ordered a .54 regular size and the boolits fall down my bore...I guess I should've gotten the "oversized" one. These are'nt very expensive(Lee factory sales) but the shipping is so much it doubles the cost...what about paper patching these boolits up in size and folding the tail into the hollow Minie cavity? Is this a reasonable experiment or stupidity?

[treadhead1952]

Hi Tedly,

You could try paper patching or for that matter, shoot a few balls down the barrel and once it gets a bit crusty, shove one down then. It ought to be a bit tighter at that point. Order from Midway next time, their price is only $19.47. With a mold and something minor to bring it up over their $20 minimum it won't be too bad.

[DIRT Farmer]

The luck of the draw, I had a 45 Lee mini mould in my odds box so when I got the .451 Volenteer rifle and was waiting for the mould to arrive I patched several and tucked the tails in the base. I loaded them with a felt wad and a fiber wad over the powder. They shot plenty well enough for hunting.

[10 ga]

Check on the molds forum and see about doing a leementing. That should help some. After that try a beagle. The search engine is your friend. Of course PPing is an option too. $.02! 10 ga

[cwskirmisher]

I jumped the gun and bought a Lee minie bullet mold before I checked the actual bore size and ordered a .54 regular size and the boolits fall down my bore...I guess I should've gotten the "oversized" one. These are'nt very expensive(Lee factory sales) but the shipping is so much it doubles the cost...what about paper patching these boolits up in size and folding the tail into the hollow Minie cavity? Is this a reasonable experiment or stupidity?

What is your bore size and what does the minnie mic to? You may be pleasantly surprised by how well it shoots just the way it is. Minies are not supposed to engrave on loading, they are supposed to be a slip fit at the tightest. .002-.003 undersized will still shoot just fine provided you are using pure lead. I have fired a .536 out of a .541 bore and still attained good acceptable accuracy to 100 yards.

[Southron Sanders]

Paper patching your bullets can get old fast. Like CWSkirmisher said, you need a bullet that is 2 or 3 thou undersize for best accuracy results. Those bullets also need to be cast out of pure lead and run thru a sizer.

Lapping out a mould is EASILY done and, of course, will increase the diameter of the bullets your mould casts. I am sure you can find a website that shows you how to do it.

[gew98]

I've never run any of my cast minie's in 58 or 50 cal through a sizer. I just grease 'em up and load 'em and they have worked fine for decades , with my 50 caliber being quite the shooter.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Virtually all cast minie's need sized because 1-most moulds don't produce round minie's and 2- even with a perfect mould its virtually impossible to have them come out round especially with the seperate base pin type mould. You know dang well it is an event when someone on CB says my regular production mould is round, let alone a hollow base design.

Now, if you use that kind of production along with the 2-3 thousandths fit some recommend you get significantly less accuracy potential from your bullet than you might be capable of using. That is just too much slop.

If you are a 10 moa offhand range shooter, you end up with 15" or better groups at 100 yards. Hardly sure kill on a regular deer under lots of field conditions.

Why not cast and size to insure that your minie will will still load nicely, and repeatedly, at 1 1/2 thousands bore clearance because it is a sized round. That fit will hold up even through a standard skirmish event. That alone will likely give you a noticeable moa group reduction if you are a consistent shooter. With a little dry firing and range live firing practice you could get better yet.

It is noted historically that a common CW soldier was considered a good shot if he could keep a his shots on an 8" canteen sized target at 100 yards. That is the size of a man's head. And that in the day where a high proportion of men were experienced shooters. The South alone had huge numbers of local militia groups that shot at target on a regular basis in organized units for years, in anticipation of military necessity.

Slug the bore. Buy the oversize or correct size mould. Size to make round and fit correctly. Or take up re-enacting where you don't need bullets. Otherwise you simply waste powder, ball and cap, and that is the true expense of the rifle. Not a Lee mould and shipping. The guns were not designed for the paper patch.

BvT

[Buckshot]

.............I experimented with paper patched Minie' bullets in my Parker-Hale P58, 2 band Enfield. The patched Minie' bullets were a waste of time. It's possible that having progressive depth grooves (and 5 of'em in the P58) that they didn't fully expand or something similar? The grooves are pretty deep in the breech, and are narrower then the 3 grooves commonly seen.

...............Buckshot

[Lead pot]

The response I read on the Mini ball makes me wonder if they even know what a mini ball is or used them.
A mini should be a loose fit in a clean barrel so you can reload with ease when the barrel gets fouled during a skirmish, that was what they were designed for. The deep hollow base will shoot just fine even it the ball was dropped and the skirt got bent in. Also that deep hollow base can be used to hold lard or other soft lubes to help control the fouling.

[montana_charlie]

Virtually all cast minie's need sized because 1-most moulds don't produce round minie's and 2- even with a perfect mould its virtually impossible to have them come out round especially with the seperate base pin type mould.
Many cast bullet shooters are using smokless powders and (in many cases) hard alloys. Under those conditions, the cast bullet NEEDS to be as perfectly round as possible because it must make a full seal of the bore before the powder ignites.
Absent the seal, and gas cutting begins ... then everything goes to pot.

The pure lead minie ball, propelled by black powder, will be as round as the interior of the barrel before it even starts to move. The initial seal is achieved by 'bouncing' the ramrod on the bullet nose as the final action during loading.

CW soldiers did not carry sizing dies to assure roundness.
Their barrels did the final sizing when the trigger was pulled.
But, consider the accuracy of CW soldiers who could hit the canteen at 100 yards.
Modern recruits are not asked to do much better, actually.

I think that best accuracy is not defined by bullet roundness, in this case. A minie ball-style bullet and a CW-type musket are the limiting factors. With that combination of equipment, accuracy can only improve to a certain level.

CM

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Many cast bullet shooters are using smokless powders and (in many cases) hard alloys. Under those conditions, the cast bullet NEEDS to be as perfectly round as possible because it must make a full seal of the bore before the powder ignites.
Absent the seal, and gas cutting begins ... then everything goes to pot.

The pure lead minie ball, propelled by black powder, will be as round as the interior of the barrel before it even starts to move. The initial seal is achieved by 'bouncing' the ramrod on the bullet nose as the final action during loading.

CW soldiers did not carry sizing dies to assure roundness.
Their barrels did the final sizing when the trigger was pulled.
But, consider the accuracy of CW soldiers who could hit the canteen at 100 yards.
Modern recruits are not asked to do much better, actually.

I think that best accuracy is not defined by bullet roundness, in this case. A minie ball-style bullet and a CW-type musket are the limiting factors. With that combination of equipment, accuracy can only improve to a certain level.

CM

Actually, a very large majority of UNION cartridge production used a SWAGED bullet................round. The Confederates cast most of their own with a high degree of QC that was well known.........round. UNION DOCTRINE for loading instructed the troops to use but two light taps in seating the minie' specifically so as not to deform the bullet or crush the powder, as either introduced a degradation of accuracy, one in the barrel the other in the bullets flight, and in combination. They were PROFESSIONALS IN MUSKETRY and weapon maintenance. Loading and seating the bullet was not a sizing operation. Experienced troops later in the war actually tested ammo issues and often complained of forced issue of ammo with poor powder or ill fitting bullets. They were shooters and for the most part knew that their lives depended on the ammo and the weapon. Bullet windage (sloppy fit) is a well known dispersion factor and you don't cure it by slinging your ramrod down the barrel to hammer the bullet into fitting. If the minie' fits reasonably well and is seated, just the hollow base expansion from the charge and the nose slump from overcoming inertia on firing seals the bore correctly. That was the genius of the minie'.

BvT

[idahoron]

I am currently paper patching the Lee 45 cal Minie. I am getting great accuracy with this bullet. I size them to .446 and patch them dry. I size them again to .446 and they are ready to load. My brass range rod is enough to push them down but they won't fall out if the gun is held barrel down. I started out using 80 gr of pyrodex P and I am testing 90 gr of Pyrodex P. They are cooking out of the barrel and I am still getting sub 2" groups at 100 yards with a peep sight. I am planning on chronographing this load when hunting season winds down.
I liked the results so much I also got a 54 minie mould but I haven't tried them yet. Ron

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/316grMinie100yardsinfoadded.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Photo081.jpg