GEW 88 sights

[frnkeore]

I have two 88's a un modified 1894 Spandau (other than S) with the 2000M sight and a 05 modified 1891 Loewe with the 2050M sight.

I haven't taken the 94 out yet but, the 91 shoots about 6" high at 100 and and almost twice that at 200 with cast bullets of 210 gr cast GC at 2200 fps. The 05's have sights on them that are suppose to handle the 154 gr 2880 fps loads so, I would have expected it to shoot low.

I've read other accounts of 88's shooting high but, I don't remember how high or what load.

My question is........... Is this common on any or all 88's? Or are the barrel vibrations doing this?

Frank

[elk hunter]

Mine shoots high and to the left with anything like military duplication loads.

My experience indicates this was quite common in military rifles.

[frnkeore]

Do we only have two people that actually shoot the 88's? I was hoping that there would be many more.

Frank

[gidgaf]

Yup. Me too. My fave is my 1891 Danzig 05/24. Big, ugly, heavy: hits what I'm shooting at.
I have three more in that pattern. Mostly ***, but mostly complete.

It's an old military rifle. It's not quite designed for "game" hunting.
The sights are somewhat zeroed in to about 200 yards. Or meters. Or metres.
You aim towards center of mass on a man, you'll hit something if you can see him.
The front sight can be "drifted" left and right a bit. Add a little JBWeld to the top also, and whittle it down until it zeroes at 100 to 120 yards. It may not ever be a 100 yard tack driver, but you can easily poke a bunch of clays at that range.

Those big (2050m) numbers on the top of the ladder don't mean it can shoot any good that far.
These are "volley" numbers. As in, you may have about a century (100) of soldiers on this side of the field, shooting at another group a thousand or two meters on that side. Counting in wind drift, etc you may have a dispersal of two meters (yards) or so. But your target is a mass the size of a couple of buildings. Fire a couple of shots- you might not hit what you were aiming at, but you should hit something. And make a bunch of bad guys duck.

[Good Cheer]

Mine is a $35 NRA special from... what year was that?
Any way, Richard Hoch put one of his barrels inside it and made a mold to match. It would get you some beer money because everybody knew that an 1888 wouldn't shoot. But, back then the range was built into the back of a beer joint too.

[frnkeore]

Good cheer, Does yours shoot high with the Hoch barrel on it or did he do something with the sights, too?

Frank

[jonk]

I have 2.5. Two real 88s and one Turk 88/05/35. Mine both shoot to POA with cast, and about 4 to 6" high with jacketed at 100, whereas the Turk with its new high front sight as supplied by the Turks during rearsenaling shoots to POA or even low depending on bullet weight. So my experience is a bit different.

FWIW, the two 88s shoot really well with either the 200 gr NOE mold or the Karabiner mold and 20 gr of SR 4759 (max) or 16 gr of 2400.

[frnkeore]

Thanks, Jonk. I'll have to try try those loads. Mine was shooting right and I had to drift my front sight at least .020 off center to bring it in. I was shooting 4227 to sight it in.

I haven't looked at the 35's, I wonder if the barrel mounted sight would fit the jacket mount on the 88 and then file it down?

Frank

[Frank46]

If your rifle is shooting high you would need a higher front sight blade to get the point of impact down. I've suggestions that say to get a front sight blade from an argentine mauser as it is slightly higher than the ones on the '88. Brownells also sells a extra tall front sight blade for the yugo shooters who reported extremely high shooting. I've got one but not yet have installed it. My yugo was shooting about 14" high at 100yds. Frank

[frnkeore]

Frank,
Do the sights your talking about, fit the front dovetail on the 88? For mine, I have to raise the sight approx .070 for POA.

Frank

[Frank46]

Frank, the one I got from brownells has the standard mauser dovetail as far as I know. It is supposed to be a replacement for mausers that shoot high. From what I remember you install it and shoot to see how the point of impact is and then if needed file the sight down if too low. I have a few 88 front sight blades and I guess over the years the wear and tear has worn them down as none of them are identical. I bought some barreled actions that had the jackets in varying stages of decomposition. Ranging from hopeless to maybe one that you could salvage the rear section where the front guard screw is supposed to go. Of the bbls all but one is in nice shape. I have a receiver that I stoned, sanded and cleaned up. Been soaking in penetrating oil for a few months. One of these days will figure out how to pull the bbl. Frank

[frnkeore]

Thanks Frank,
I'll take a look in Brownell's catalog.

Frank

[frnkeore]

Frank,
I took a look and that will solve my problem, Thank you.

But, a big part of what I wanted out of my post was to know if the GEW 88's ALL shoot high or just some of them do. I was hoping for a bigger responce, I know that there is a lot of them out there but, based on the limited responce, I'm thinking that not many of them get to the range or in the field hunting.

I like the rifles a lot (also the Krag) and have just started to work up loads for them but, the shooting so high thing gets in the way.

I was thinking (i'm a machinist) about narrowing the short 17A sight to fit but Brownell's discription says the original is 81 deg and I'd have to have a cutter made to do it :(

Frank

[L Ross]

I shoot mine with 200 gr. cast bullets and 14.0 gr IMR-4227 and it hits on at 150 yds. It occasionally embarrasses much more expensive and less cosmetically challenged rifles.

Duke

[Frank46]

I believe that the origional bullet weight for the '88 in 8mm was in the area of 247 grains or somewhere in that area. Could be wrong though. Frank

[frnkeore]

Frank,
I found this info on a GEW 88 site. It gives all the different mauser loadings. The bullet your refering to is a 226 gr, .318 dia. It's the one that makes people think that the groove on 88's is .318. All the rifles untill '96, I believe are .3208 +/- what ever there tolerance was.

7.92x57mm I / 1888 / 8.07 mm (0.318 in) / 14.6 g (226 gr) / 57 mm (2.24 in) / 12.0 mm (.473 in) / 11.9 mm (.469 in) / 10.95 mm (.431 in) / 8.89 mm (.350 in) / 80.5 mm (3.17 in) / 639 m/s (2,095 ft/s) / 2983 J (2,200 ft·lbf)

7.92x57mm IS / 1905 / 8.2 mm (0.323 in) / 9.9 g (154 gr) / 57 mm (2.24 in) / 12.0 mm (.473 in) / 11.9 mm (.469 in) / 10.95 mm (.431 in) / 8.76 mm (.345 in) / 82.5 mm (3.25 in) / 878 m/s (2,880 ft/s) / 3857 J (2844 ft·lbf)

7.92x57mm IS / 1934 / 8.2 mm (0.323 in) / 12.8 g (197 gr) / 57 mm (2.24 in) / 12.0 mm (.473 in) / 11.9 mm (.469 in) / 10.95 mm (.431 in) / 8.76 mm (.345 in) / 82.5 mm (3.25 in) / 760 m/s (2,493ft/s) / 3697 J (2,727 ft·lbf)

It's a little hard to read but, it goes this way, bullet dia, bullet wt, case lg, rim/head size, shoulder dia, neck dia, speed and muzzle energy.

Frank

[frnkeore]

Ross, what bullet mold are you using and what size are your best groups?

frank

[frnkeore]

I can't believe that there are so few actual shooters of the GEW 88's. If this thread had been about the bore and groove size of the 88, there would have been a lot more posts. These are great guns and should be shot.

Thanks for your input for the guys that posted.

Frank

[gunnut14]

frnkeore,
I have 2 of them .
One is in military form as I received and rebuilt it.
The stock is now more acraglass than wood.
The other ones stock could not be saved so I made a new one using the deminisions of the original. Caught a lot of flak from some of the (original only ) crowd but have 2 nice rifles.
I shoot a .318 paper patched boolit weighing205 grains using 26.1 grains of IMR4895

Both of mine shoot high and to the left.
I think it has to do with the barrel tube as I have a friend that has one he took the tube off of and it shoots pretty good (about 3 inches high) which seems to be normal for battle rattle sights.Aim for the belt buckle , bound to hit something.

Don't shoot mine very often as I have other rifles I like much better.


gunnut14

[gew98]

I can't believe that there are so few actual shooters of the GEW 88's. If this thread had been about the bore and groove size of the 88, there would have been a lot more posts. These are great guns and should be shot.

Thanks for your input for the guys that posted.

Frank

I missed this thread. I have been reloadign and shooting chinese and Turk surplus pulled 154 grain S patrone bullets for 20 years using 50 grains of WC852 with excellent results in POI and accuracy in my gew88's. I have yet to use cast in any of my 7,92 rifles..but am really liking the idea more and more.
I have not experianced the way high POI at 100 yds with my gew88's...but man with the gew98 that 400 meter battlesight will get you shooting mucho higho until you figure out the 'box site' method ...and then they get damn accurate and fun to shoot under 200 yds at things like beer cans etc etc.

[frnkeore]

Can you explain your "box site" method?

Frank

[gew98]

The Box sighting method works with gew98's and 91 carcano rifles with their original sights. Basically you look at the rear sight like it's a 'box'. Using the sides of the Lange Visier rear sight and the plane of the top of the V notch you then imagine a top to this box going across the top of the LV sight sides. there is your box. You then align your sights on the target like you would normally do and then put your target dead in the middle of this 'box' sight picture keeping the target centered with the sights. This really makes up for the gew98's high POI at closer ranges.