Sleeveing cylinder.

[leftiye]

I've embarked on a project to turn a model 19 S&W into a 32-20. All that is needed is a new barrel and cylinder. I got the barrel (model 16 .32 mag 8 3/8" barrel) from Numrich arms, but they didn't have a cylinder ( they're a bugger to fit and time, etc. anyway).

So I'm planning on reaming out the front cylinder mouths of the old cylinder, and then pressing in six sleeves and rechambering the sleeves. Has anybody here done this already? Also, the idea of using brass for the sleeves (the cylinder is a .357 caliber remember = plenty strong regardless of sleeve) has occurred to me. It should stay put better, especially if high pressures caused it to stretch and stick as a cartridge case would.

Imput is most welcome.

[Frank46]

I think you would be better off with steel sleeves pressed and locktited in place. Brass just doesn't sound safe to me. Would hate to hear you got hurt or worse here. Frank

[stubshaft]

Gonna need a new extractor too.

[leftiye]

No, I won't need a new extractor. The rims on the 32-20 are big enough to be caught by the .357 extractor (only a hair smaller than .357 rims). And if there are problems, I can replace it later. No zombies says the steel and heat treatment in a K 22 cylinder are the same as in a .357. Can anybody verify that for me? I could simply rechamber a K 22 cylinder to 32-20.

The .357 already carries more pressure than any 32-20 load that I've ever heard of. The chambers themselves are plenty strong. My best guess is that unless a sleeve moves it won't matter what it is made of, and as I said the brass will probly stick better than steel (expand under pressure and then spring back less than the steel cyl. does (if it expands the cyl. at all). If the sleeve moves, it will probably only jam the cylinder. I've also been looking at putting a shoulder on the sleeves at the front of the chambers, but there's not much cylinder there to make a recess for the shoulder on the sleeve. If a sleeve did move it, should be rearward from gas pressure at the barrel cylinder gap. I'm a little scared of using glue. There is no barrel/cylinder gap in a sleeved rifle barrel, so epoxy works fine in those applications.

[Bret4207]

They make Loc-Tite products that are probably perfect for your idea and thin enough to not be a mess to deal with. If you want to use brass I'd look for some seamless tubing of the proper diameter and ream the cylinder to fit it and press them in. If you get a good enough finish it should work. My only concern would be gas cutting at the case mouth. If you could get steel tubing it would probably be more resistant to that. The 32-20 is a fairly high pressure round when you load it up.

Love the idea!

[John Taylor]

I would use steel. It doesn't need to be anything special but old rifle barrel steel would be best. It will chamber good and can be machined to fit the old chambers of the cylinder. You don't need a press fit, just close with a drop or two of loctite. I would not ream out the cylinder, might want to change it back some day. You will need to ream the liners to .312" or .313" then chamber with a pilot to fit. I can probably come up with an old barrel for you to use if you would like.

[Stevie]

I own a Spanish Tracola .22 revolver that I believe used to be chambered for 8mm French ordinance revolver ammo.

Somebody put some serious effort into sleeving the chambers and barrel and reworking the extractor star. So yes..it can be done.

[leftiye]

Thank you both. This is the "Research Phase" of the project. It is funny how actual research will get one almost no help on this type of operation. I was once interested in drawing 50 basic and cartridge cases of that type, NO written information anywhere - until I started talking to Jim Bell. Metallic ctg. cases had been in production for 150 years?

I've got Askins' book, and he mentions sleeving chambers. I guess he thinks it is general knowledge because he didn't go into the how-to much, just says to do it. I haven't ever heard of it being done anywhere, so I guess it isn't done much.

John, Thanks for the offer, I have several .30 cal take offs. Thanks again, Ted

[JIMinPHX]

I would use a good grade of alloy steel. I've read that 4140 is commonly used in barrels. It might be a good choice here.

Am I understanding you correctly that you plan to ream out the entire chamber & sleeve the chamber & throat as 1 unit? If so, that sounds like a more robust solution than just sleeveing the throat area.

If you install a sleeve with a step in it's OD, then it will be darn near impossible for it to slip backwards under recoil.

These are just ideas off the top of my head. I've never done a sleeve in a chamber on a revolver before.

[Dframe]

Surely a K frame cylinder can't be that hard to find. Yes there WILL be some fitting. but the "fitting" is TINY compared to sleeving and properly chambering an existing cylinder. I would try other parts suppliers for a K cylinder in 22 or 32

[Reg]

Made up a 1917 Smith in 25-20 using Stressproof steel for the sleeves and glued in with Loctite. Nice pistol and very accurate with a 4X Simmons scope. John Taylor is right, use a good grade of steel for the sleeves and a old barrel would be a good way to go. Clean and polish well the chambers in the cylinder to remove all traces of any fouling. A very close slip fit is the best way to go and you should get as good of alignment as the factory did. Try to get a press fit and you run the risk of misalignment if you get even the slightest gauling. I used a bushing grade of Loctite and then hot blued the whole pistol cylinder and all. I think most barrel liners are either installed with a Loctite or a epoxy such as Accraglas, most of these get hot blued and no one seems to have any complaints. You have more working time with the above methods of locking in the sleeves and you can carefully rotate the sleeves to notice if binding is taking place. I keep a close eye on it but have noticed no loosening of any of the sleeves or any eferevesence you would get like a solder reaction. I do bet you will have to alter the extractor. The difference between the 32-20 and .357 is slight but I just think to get proper extraction, you might well have to modify it.
I pre chambered all of my sleeves about .005 short then finish reamed after the Loctite had completly set then hand reamed to get .001 to .0015 clearance over the recoil sheild using a head space gage that was actually .002 over a bottom dimention Go. I wanted tight headspace. Most new cases work perfectly but have noticed a number of older cases tend to get tight over the rim. I don't think the ammo companys held their tolorances as well years ago.
To prevent binding because of the bottle neck case ,I do not try for any kind of magnum load and have so far, had no problems. Like I said, it shoots far better than I can hold.
All of the above is very do able with careful machine work and you can get a pistol you will enjoy for years to come.

:drinks:

[scb]

I mad a 22 k chuck for a gentleman many years ago. While he really liked it, it was nothing I would do for myself. I used a S&W k frame, a M48 barrel and sleeved the cylinder. It worked very well. Just not my cup of tea so to speak. I would recommend against the use of brass for the sleeves. The reason being that similar metals (brass case - brass sleeve) tend to gall under a,( I'm not sure what the proper term would be), friction load. The act of extracting fired, expanded cases from the cylinder. Just my 2 ¢ .

[S.R.Custom]

Yep. Brass is soft. It will scratch --especially from cleaning-- and then cases will begin to stick. And the chamber throats will scratch & wear very quickly from firing.

[RwBeV]

Use steel you will find that brass will erode just in front of the case mouth. Its been a long time ago but I have converted several Rugers to various wild cats. Build your sleeves ream the holes for a slip fit use a couple of drops of 271 Loctite let is set over night it will take an act of god to get them out (or a little heat) I couldn't count the liners I have installed with 271 but I have never had one slip.

Bob

[Dan Cash]

I would take John Taylor's advice as he does sleeve work professionally. He sleeved a 95 Win. in .30-40 for me and secured the sleeve with lock tite. Close to 1000 rounds later and a fair amount of heat from time to time and you can not tell that the tube is sleeved. Shoots well too.

[John 242]

How come no one mentioned silver soldering the inserts into place?
Is loc-tite simply easier to use?

Is this right...
1. Make sleaves for cartridge.
2. Ream chambers for slip fit of sleaves
3. Install sleaves and secure with loc-tite
4. Chamber ream sleave for proper headspace

Is that the right idea?

[S.R.Custom]

How come no one mentioned silver soldering the inserts into place?

Ruins the heat treatment.

A slight interference/press fit with the afore mentioned lock-tite really is the best way.

[John 242]

Ruins the heat treatment.

A slight interference/press fit with the afore mentioned lock-tite really is the best way.

Ahh, I see.
Learn something new everyday.
Thank you.

[bob208]

a long time ago we did a colt op. to .25-20 relined the barrel and used 10L14 to line the cylender. it worked good.

[RwBeV]

When I first started relining barrels they where soft soldered in. What a Pain! Silver solder would take even more heat. In order to get the solder all the way down the barrel I would have to heat the barrel then apply flux to the barrel then start sliding the liner in back and forth adding solder until the liner came out the other end. With Loctite you can work with the liners before they setup also you can weld the end of the barrel to hide the liner with solder its almost impossible, silver solder would be worse yet.

Bob

[leftiye]

Thanks for all of your help guys! It is appreciated. I actually do have a couple of S&W K frame 22 rf cylinders at present. Am thinking......

[John Taylor]

When I first started relining barrels they where soft soldered in. What a Pain! Silver solder would take even more heat. In order to get the solder all the way down the barrel I would have to heat the barrel then apply flux to the barrel then start sliding the liner in back and forth adding solder until the liner came out the other end. With Loctite you can work with the liners before they setup also you can weld the end of the barrel to hide the liner with solder its almost impossible, silver solder would be worse yet.

Bob

I never weld a liner to the barrel, makes a hard spot in the liner. 4130 steel will harden when welded on. It is much easier to peen the muzzle end of the barrel to shrink the hole, then drive the liner through. When you dress the end and polish you can't see the joint if done right. I try for .002" clearance on the liner so there isn't much peening to make the hole small enough for a metal to metal fit.