Heresy: .577-450 Substitute Load

[Ed in North Texas]

I know it is heresy, to some people, to suggest there might be a load which does not use "the holy Black" (or should holy be capitalized??).

Seriously, I e-Mailed Western Powders to ask about using Blackhorn 209 in the .577-450). I received a response from Keith Anderson, Western Powders Ballistic Lab, as follows:

"There seems to be quite a few people still shooting the old Martini's.

Blackhorn 209 works very well in black powder cartridges. Full case loads are used in all handgun calibers and rifle calibers up to the 45-90. Once you get to cartridges with a capacity greater than that of the 45-90 full case loads are not possible. We did do considerable load work with the larger cartridges using fillers and had excellent results. After doing some case volume measurements I see the 577x450 Martini Henry has about 8% greater case capacity than the 45-120 SS. You can go to our cartridge load data and use the 45-120SS data as a guide line.

Since the case will not be full, we use a Dacron filler but I think Puff-lon may be a better choice. If you use Puff-lon reduce the load 5%. It is permissible to have air space in the case when using Blackhorn 209 but when load density falls below 90%, I like to use a filler for consistency. Maximum operating pressure for the 577/450 Martini is 25,382 psi so keep this in mind as you develop loads.

I get a lot of people asking for loads for this caliber so with any luck I will get a test barrel made one of these days but at this time it will not be a high priority item. Sorry about that."

Hope that will be helpful to someone (other than myself).

Ed

[junkbug]

Thanks for passing that on to everyone.

[Stevie]

I've been loading the Martini with Pyrodex RS...works fine. I use shredded cotton balls for filler.

You have to watch out for grass fires...

[Ed in North Texas]

I've been loading the Martini with Pyrodex RS...works fine. I use shredded cotton balls for filler.

You have to watch out for grass fires...

In other words in Texas, in the summer (and most of the year this year), use your filler and be pretty sure of a hostile visit from the Fire Marshal.

[The Double D]

It's not heresy to load smokeless in a Martini. Done and it got some good results.

A standard Nitro for black loading with 4198 gives some good results NfB uses 40% of the BP load in 4198 and RL7, RL15, I also used recommended loads from Accurate Powder for XMR5744

http://www.fototime.com/D84344918022627/standard.jpg
35 grs. IMR 4198, Kynoch case, Federal LRM primer, RCBS .468-480 20:1, 7 grs Kapok,10 rounds-100 yards, 1318fps+, 1280fps-, 38 fps spread, 1299 mean 14 sd.

I would be very cautious however with Western Powders data until they do some pressure testing. Exchanging a load strictly on volume from a straight wall to bottle neck is bad practice. This is especially true in the 577/450. There is a difference since the neck is not consider part of the powder chamber for volume in the Martini. You should also be forewarned just looking at the two cartridges master load; 45-120, 120 grains of blackpowder, the Martini is an 80 grain main load.

I think the gentleman at Western doesn't know much about the Martini case.

Do not get any granulated solids such as puffalon or Cream of wheat down in the powder chamber. The powder chamber of the martini case is about .590 diameter, the case neck is about .470 diameter. When fired the .590 column of granulated granulated solids is slugged up into a solid like mass and extruded through the the neck under pressure. My test resulted in stretched necks. With puffalon, I was using so much to fill the case that I was getting blowback into the chamber. After a round or two the chamber was so fouled that it had to be cleaned before another round could be chambered.

http://www.fototime.com/3294C502B57C8DF/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/240BBA585380A0B/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/4F827095639E500/standard.jpg

Here is the same load misfire using a kapok filler.

http://www.fototime.com/7BC54851F480341/standard.jpg

This points out another problem with some of the smokeless loads. some of the powders needed magnum primers to ignite.

Play with the smokeless powders, they work. Let us know how they work for you.
They just for me are not as much fun as black powder in this gun.

[Ed in North Texas]

[QUOTE=The Double D;1365886]It's not heresy to load smokeless in a Martini. Done and it got some good results.

A standard Nitro for black loading with 4198 gives some good results NfB uses 40% of the BP load in 4198 and RL7, RL15, I also used recommended loads from Accurate Powder for XMR5744

Thank you Douglas. Your experience is always helpful. Glad to hear 4198 is a good powder to use, I have 8+ pounds of it. And I won't be buying any Pufflon anytime soon.

Of course my "heresy" comment was just me being facetious in the BP forum.

Ed

[The Double D]

Yes the Mods will be send us to time out for topic drift...but black powder is much more fun.

[THerbert]

I've wondered about the advisability of using dacron or other non-organic fillers in the BP cases -- do we need to think about the dacron melting and condensing on the walls of the bore, resulting in "plastic fouling?"

[The Double D]

I've wondered about the advisability of using dacron or other non-organic fillers in the BP cases -- do we need to think about the dacron melting and condensing on the walls of the bore, resulting in "plastic fouling?"

No. Use the dacron in a repeatable measurable quantity.

[RMulhern]

Doesn't this belong under the Substitute Load Forum??