Prairie Dog Rifle

[Uncle R.]

Hi all:
I'm scheduled for my first ever p-dog excursion next June. A friend with some experience at it says "take at least two rifles and a thousand rounds for each." If things go well this may be the first time I ever shoot and shoot until I'm tired of shooting!
:-D
I already have a very accurate .223 for the intermediate range shots - but I need something (.22-250?) for the really long shots. Anyone have experience at this? What do you recommend for a cartridge and (especially) a rifle?
It has to (to steal a phrase from Dean Grennell) "shoot far, fast, flat and close together." I'm thinking that I'll need honest 1/2 MOA accuracy but then I've never actually tried this before. My friend says wind-bucking ability is at least as important as flat trajectory, and suggests the Savage rifles for accuracy and economy. If I do buy a Savage it'll be my first - I'm sure they're good rifles but they look kind of - er, well - homely to my eyes...
What do you guys prefer? Got any advice for a novice at prairie dogging?
Thanks!
Uncle R.

[garandsrus]

Uncle R,

I will be shooting prairie dogs next summer for the first time also. My primary gun is going to be an AR-15 in .223 with a scope. It is the most accurate rifle I own. I figure it will be good out to 400+ yards. I am going to shoot 55 gr bullets to help reduce wind drift as compared to the lighter bullets. I will probably take 77 gr bullets also in case the wind is kicking up.

If I were to get another rifle, I would seriously look at the .204 Ruger caliber. Savage makes a nice single shot in .204 for varmint hunting. The reports I have read were very positive.

Have fun!
John

[Bass Ackward]

I love 22s, but if I gotta buck wind I go up in bore diameter. Problem then becomes heat disapation. Do they still make gattling guns?

You might try one of those Brownings in 6MM Win Super Duper, Ultra Short Action, Stubbie, Long Range ......................

Sorry, I get so confused with these new fangled cartridges. Just see a salesman, they'll hook you up. :grin:

[Pat I.]

Ugly or not you're not going to go wrong with a Savage rifle, especially one of the BVSS's with the new trigger on it. Mine were the early single shots with the skinny plastic stock and they still shot pretty good. Where are you going to go? I went out to SD for about 12 years straight by myself (couldn't afford Tibet to get in touch with my inner self) with 2 Savage rifles in .223 and never felt under gunned and could see where the misses landed without a spotter. The wind out on those prairies gets strong and that's going to be your biggest problem with scoring hits. If you already have a good shooting 223 go for a 22/250 for the longer shots. Don't know how it'll be in the place you're going but those SD dogs weren't stupid and would lay low for awhile after a few of their buddies were sent to PD heaven, although keep in mind that this was public land and had a a fair amount of shooters. What I do recommend when buying a new gun for PD shooting is to spend a little less on bells and whistles and a little more on the glass it'll wear. If your PD trip is anything like the ones I took you'll be doing plenty off roading and the guns will take some bouncing around.

I used to go right below the Badlands on the Conata Basin but they closed it off the last time I checked for Black Footed Ferret reintroduction. Dogs were getting a little thin anyway although the conservation dept. claimed they weren't being poisoned.

One time I came across a bunch off old tarnished 50 cal cases buried in the gumbo and asked a rancher about them. Claimed that during WW2 the pilots from Ellsworth AFB used to use the area for training and would fly over and shoot up the cows. Don't know if he was pulling my leg or not but it was a good story and I kept the cases.

No matter what you're shooting or how you do though you can expect to have a great time, meet some nice people, and see some beautiful things. I'm from Illinois and it's a whole different world out west.

Pat

[Scrounger]

I go with Pat on this, .223 is all you need. It'll kill at a mile if you can hit them. And there is the rub. The farther the range, the more wind drift and trajectory come into play. A .22-250 or Swift might give you an inch or two less drop and drift, but at 400 yards those numbers are big enough that a one inch improvement really isn't very relevant. Nor do i see any advantage in larger calibers; yes, if you use heavy bullets and shoot them fast enough that your shoulder don't really want to shoot many of them, but with the usually recommended 'varmint bullets', they'll drift as much as your .224s and be more unpleasant to shoot. After 600 rounds of .223, I'm rocky enough to put the rifle up and call it a day even if there are still dogs around. I kick myself for every miss up to 200 yards; I try them out to 400 yards and if I hit 1 out of 4, I brag about it. Beyond 400 yards I just wave at them and drive a little closer when the short range shooting quits. Try Thunder Basin in Wyoming, too. It's mostly private property but most of the ranchers will let you shoot for $20 a day. It's worth it. Watch out for the buffalo.

[Uncle R.]

Bass:
I have a WW1 era 98 Mauser that was sporterized and rebarreled to .244 Rem. by one R. M. Atchen who proudly stamped his name on the barrel in 1961. You'd think that would be a fine long-range varminter but the darn thing just won't group - the best loads I've found are closer to two MOA than one. The inletting was kinda sloppy when I bought it but I've since tried glass bedding the action and free-floating the barrel with no improvement. It's been frustrating - I've taken a couple of whitetails with it just for grins but it ain't gonna serve as a varminter with that kinda accuracy.
The 6mm's and .25-06 have incredible trajectories and wind resistance - but recoil is a factor too and I'm thinking I'd rather have less kick. Remember, we're talking maybe a couple of hundred rounds in an afternoon.

Pat:
We're going to a ranch in South Dakota although I don't even know exactly where. My buddy knows the rancher and has shot there before. After considerable whining and pleading from me he's agreed to let me come along on this trip. :roll:
I wholeheartedly agree with your comment about scope quality. My current 223 wears a Nikon Monarch 5.5-16.5 X 44 and CHEEZ that's a sweet scope! Midway has a special deal right now on the Monarch 6.5-20 and if I can scrape up the green before they're gone I'm hoping to have one for my "long range" rifle.

[Bullshop]

Uncle R
Have you tried realy light bullets? I once had a custom 244 that had a 1/14" twist and a 75 gn was heavy for that rifle. It shot 70gn match bullets realy good.
BIC/BS

[Uncle R.]

Bullshop:
My .244 wears a 14" twist barrel too. I've done considerable load testing with 75 to 90 gr bullets but I haven't tried the REAL light ones. Thanks for the tip - I'll try some lighter stuff.
Uncle R.

[Bass Ackward]

Bullshop:
My .244 wears a 14" twist barrel too. I've done considerable load testing with 75 to 90 gr bullets but I haven't tried the REAL light ones. Thanks for the tip - I'll try some lighter stuff.
Uncle R.


14 twist!!!!! Sweet Maranda. 70 GRAIN Speer TNTs with 50 grains of 4350 and torch that with a magnum primer!

Make sure you keep a bottle of Sweets on hand and use it before you start!

[Pat I.]

Since you brought the subject up there's a couple of things about PD shooting from my experience I think I should pass along and one suggestion.

#1) If it rains while you're in the field don't walk around too much and try to get the car/truck to a road if possible. That SD gumbo is as slippery as vaseline, sticks like super glue, and dries like cement. Start strolling around and you'll end up being 4 feet taller and weighing 200 lbs more than usual. Driving in it is about like driving on a sheet of ice except you'll sink like a stone and when you finally do get rescued will be driving a car/truck equivical to a Sherman tank in weight. Don't know what they put in that stuff but once you get stuck out in the field you never forget it.

#2) Being a Midwesterner like you I think you'll find it next to impossible to judge distance without landmarks or trees so a lot of your 4 and 5 hundred yard shots will in actuality be closer to 150 to 250 yards. A 223 will be plenty and as long as your buddy is in the same boat as you in the distance judging department things will work out fine and your bragging rights won't be challenged. If the rancher shows up just put the guns aside and crack out the lunch bags. Don't know if it's the SD weather, local, or just plain luck but I've never been able to make some of the long range shots I've made out there anywhere else I've been.

3) Not everyone will agree with this but for the money you're not going to find a more accurate rifle than a Savage. Look at the website and get the cheapest Varmint weight barrel model they make, mount the Nikon you want on it and go have fun. That's what PD shooting is all about after all. I don't know if Nosler still makes those 40 gr. ballistic tips anymore but I used them one year with H335 and they worked like a hand grenades on those little varmints.

Pat

[carpetman]

I didnt read any mention of using cast bullets. I shoot the 58 grain RCBS about same velocity in both the .222 and the .22-250(around 2000-2200). If I were shooting several hundred full house jacketed loads per day--the 22-250 would be more than I'd care for. I have not shot the real lights in a .243 but I suspect they would be in same catagory. If I were buying a gun,considering what I already have,I'd probably go with a .204 in CZ brand. I like the 5mm(20 cal)in air rifles,so maybe I would in a centerfire.

[Uncle Grinch]

Uncle R.

My son and I go to Kimball SD every year or two for pheasant hunts and we often get a little PD time in. The first time I went I carried my .222 Rem Benchrest rifle and was toatally out gunned by my son in his Rem 700 ADL 6mm. I would get a solid hit and pieces would fly, but as soon as he cut loose with his 6mm and those 55gn Nosler Ballistic Tips, it was nothing but red mist. I chrono'd his load at 4012 fps. That was over 1000 fps faster than me.
I just couldn't stand it so I rebarreled my rifle to a .223AI and I'm now hot on his heels...almost.

Nothings beats a fast flat bullet!! Have fun!!

[waksupi]

John, if you get into areas like I do, also take a .22 LR. You could burn up a varminter barrel in short order. Most guys around here using center fires on the ground vermin, will take three or four rifles, to allow cooling time. You would certainly miss out on lots of shooting with just one firearm.

[lovedogs]

Guess I might as well put in my .02 worth here. I've lived in prairie dog country all my adult life and shoot quite a few of them, some years up to 10,000 of them.

I hate to see anything suffer and get away to die a slow and miserable death so I never recommend .22 L.R.'s. If you want to sneak around and get within 50 yds. and do head-shots they do okay, especially on the little ones. But, as a rule, I don't like to see them used.

The .204 is a neat idea but under examination isn't such a great caliber after all. They are more easily overcome by wind and they really don't do anything you can't do with your .223 using light bullets.

Over the years I've used mostly .222's, .223's, .22-.250's, .243's, and .25-06's on prairie dogs. Oh, I've gone nuts a few times and used .30-06's, .300 Win., .30-30's, .35 Whelen's, and the common pistol calibers, too. But the .22 centerfires are the only ones that make any sense. Even the .17's aren't very good. The rimfire .17's run out of steam real quick. By 150 yds. their expansion is iffy, at best. The .17 Rem. is wonderfully flat shooting but doesn't handle wind good at all.

The real winners are the .222, .223, and .22-.250. The .220 Swift is okay but won't do noticeably better than the .22-.250 and it's tougher on barrels if loaded up enough to be of an advantage.

Currently, I'm a little low on PD guns and have only one .222. It's old, about 1981 vintage. It's shot thousands of PD's and still shoots in less than a 1/2 in. It's good to, normally, about 275 yds. I've got two .223's. They are honest 300 yd. guns if I do my part. As mentioned, often the limiting factor is the wind. I prefer Speer 50 gr. TNT's, Speer 52 gr. HP's, and Hornady 50 gr. SX's in the small .22's.

I've got a couple of .22-.250's. One is a sporter-weight 788 with a reworked trigger that defies all odds. The old thing has a rough bbl. and still shoots 1/4 in. groups using the Speer 52 gr. HP. The other is an excellent Win. Heavy Varmint. It shoots either the Speer 52 gr. HP or the Hornady 55 gr.SP. If I told you how well it shoots you'd probably call me a liar.

If you are good enough, have a calm day and a good scope you can shoot PD's to about 400 yds. with the .22-.250's and .25-06's. But for all that to come together with any regularity is really rare. Most of the time the shots that will work out for you are under 300 yds. The .223 is really hard to beat. In most good rifles you can coax groups of 1/2 in. out of them. I advise a scope of a minimum of 10X. In my experience scopes of between 10X and 12X are the best. I use variables so I can adjust down if mirage becomes a problem. Adjustable objectives are nice, too. I've had the best results from Leupold's and Burris's. You can spend more money if you want but I don't think you'll gain much. Weavers are okay, too. I've not tried Nikon or Bushnell on PD's. All the Bushnell's I've tried were no good so I've quit trying to get one that worked. Likewise with Tasco. I guess you get what you pay for. If I were going to invest as much as you are to shoot PD's I'd buy good quality rather than be disappointed in low dollar stuff.

A good range finder will increase your odds A LOT. Currently, I'm using a Leica and loving it. If you've got a buddy along a good spotting scope is nice, too. A solid shooting bench is nice to have along. Build yourself a good, heavy, rigid one instead of those cheap-built things you see in catalogs. Lots of times I abandon the bench altogether and walk around the towns using crossed sticks or mounds as rests.

Beware of rattlesnakes and fleas. They can ruin your day! Filming a shoot can be fun, too. Don't you just know the folks at Animal Planet would love to watch one! Whatever you do, have fun. It is lots of fun and will really sharpen your long-range shooting skills.

[waksupi]

I definitely agree on not taking long shots with the .22LR. Where I shoot, you have them scampering around your feet at times, and very close shots can be taken.

[Scrounger]

I definitely agree on not taking long shots with the .22LR. Where I shoot, you have them scampering around your feet at times, and very close shots can be taken.

You're in north-west Montana aren't you, Ric? I didn't think they had Prarie dogs there but they have lots of ground squirrels, Californian and Columbian varieties.

[Scrounger]

There is a town in Northern California (is it Cedarville?) That has a big civic sponsored squirrel shoot every year in February. Shooters are welcomed by the ranchers and merchants in the town. I have heard of free ammo but I can't confirm that. They have a big barbecue after it's over with free food and drinks and prizes. I haven't been there yet but I hear it is well worth the trip. I have a lot of information on it, chamber of commerce contacts and farmers phone numbers if anyone is interested in going. Cold weather doesn't appeal to me at all anymore but I think a little get together there in June or July would be interesting.. I've talked to a couple of the farmers and they say they don't care when we come, we're welcome to camp out on their ranches (farms?) all year long as long as we're shooting squirrels.

[waksupi]

Scrounger, none local, but I have been known to travel....

[Uncle R.]

Thanks to all of you for your advice. This is going to be a learning experience for me - that's for sure. I can't argue about the merits of the .223 - even my long-range obsessed friend says "you'll do the majority of your shooting with the .223" and agrees that it's a 300 yard cartridge or better. I already have a 1/2 MOA .223 and it's going along for sure - with plenty of ammo. It's that second rifle that I'm pondering now - and it seems kinda silly not to make it a long-range fire breathing monster.
:)
Bass:
That Mauser sporter .244 I mentioned has seen considerable load testing over the years and has stubbornly refused to perform better than 1-1/2 MOA with anything I've tried. I've pretty much decided it's probably a poor quality barrel, a cockeyed chamber or bolt face or some similar malady that won't be corrected at the loading bench. Still - I'll try your suggested recipe. I'm especially intrigued by the magnum primer. I've never tried them in the .244 - I always figured they weren't needed in a case of that size, especially with IMR powder. The .244 is an awesome (darn near ultimate) long-range varmint cartridge and it would be fun to take along if I can get it into sub-MOA territory. It's worth another try!
:)
After considerable research and lots of questions, it looks like the new rifle's gonna be a .22-250 Savage model 12 single shot with the laminated low profile stock. They appear to be to varmint rifles what Leupold is to scopes - even those who don't like 'em will grudgingly admit that they're VERY accurate.
:roll:
Still....
I'm tempted by a CZ 550 Varmint Laminated that I saw in a local store - the price is easy to take, it has a factory set trigger and it's WAAaayyy more "sexy" than any Savage... but I don't know if it'll SHOOT.
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=21
Any CZ owners out there? Anybody know how they perform?
Thanks Again:
Uncle R.

[Old Ironsights]

How odd. When I was shooting prarie dogs in WY as a kid I used a S&W M29 and whatever factory HPs I could find.

"Fine Red Mist" is a beautious thing... ;)

[Bullshop]

I have to vote for the 6x45 as my preferd cartridge for this kind of shooting.
With 25gn re#7 and the 70gn speer tnt I get just under 3200 fps from a 24" bbl.
looking at my old speer book I see the 22/250 giving maybe 100 fps more velocity with the same weight bullet but using 15gn more powder to do it.
Trajectory and wind drift are nearly the same.
Sure you can shoot 70gn bullets from the standerd 223 with quick twist but you cant shoot it that fast. Most heavy 22's are match bullets with thick jackets that dont expand well on the little buggers. The 70gn speer 6mm tnt will explode like dynomite.
You still get the same advantage of cheep brass, and case forming is just a simple matter of running them over a 243 expander ball.
Have had one now for about 11 years and no regrets. 223's come and go but the 6x45 is still here.
BIC/BS

[C A Plater]

CZ's are spooky accurate. The set triggers help a lot although they are a bit rube goldberg in the design. I don't have that model, but would not hesitate to get one to go with the other three I already have.

[Pat I.]

Uncle R

I've heard good things about the 550 CZ rifles and have a heavy barreled 22cal. rifle of theirs, it's a nice gun. Personally I'd go for the Savage because I have experience with them and can't remember ever hearing anyone I know say they had a bad one but I'm sure either gun would serve you just fine for PDs and since you're the one who's gonna be looking at the thing go for the one with the most eye appeal.

Pat

[lovedogs]

For your long-ranger I think you'll learn to love an ugly Savage. I've worked up loads for a few friends who had them. That new trigger takes a little getting used to but is pretty nice once you get onto it. All those I've seen were more accurate than I wanted to believe. And I think you'll appreciate their stock when you start shooting PD's with it. They've really done their homework when they built these varmint rifles.

[DanWalker]

A real good friend of mine is a confirmed prairie dog junkie. He and I used to go out after them every weekend in the summer, before I took this job as a field engineer.
Now I don't get to go very much.
That being said, allow me to share my experiences, and please take it for what it's worth.(about as much as a promise from Bill Clinton)
I shoot a Savage model 11 short action in 223. I also bought a switch barrel from Sharp Shooters supply. It's chambered in 17 rem. My bud shoots: 22ackley hornet,17hmr, and 204 ruger.
Here's my observations.
#1. His 204 is a helluva lot hotter and flatter than my 223. It's a cz with a set trigger.
They could double the price of that rifle and it'd still be a bargain, just for the quality of that trigger, once you get it set right.
#2. The 223 works great out to 300-400 yards. The limitations are usually determined by the weather. High winds will shut you down, no matter what you're shooting. I use either 40 grain B-tips or 40 grain V-max bullets. Either give great explosive performance.
#3. With the right ammo the 17hmr is great out to 150-175 yards. Use the wrong stuff and all the dogs do is either slump over or crawl into their holes.
#4 Other calibers: I've shot them with 257 roberts(lots of fun but got too hot WAY too quickly.) 243 Win. My bud shoots one. It is absolutely devastating out to 500+ yards. That being said, shoot it 5 times in under 5 minutes on a hot summer afternoon, and you'll have to wait 20 minutes for it to cool down. (Hard to do when the p-dogs are scampering all over in front of you.) 22rf. I agree with what has already been said. Shot placement is critical with this caliber. I shoot out to 75 yards with my rifle and 30 with my handgun. Headshots work best, but few live very long with a center chest hit. 45Colt. 320 grain wfngc's at 950fps really swat the doggies around. GREAT practice for hunting with my handgun.
35Whelen. I loaded some 148gr hbwc's backwards over light charges of Red Dot and used tumbler media for filler. They sounded like a pellet rifle and worked great out to about 50 yards. Centerfire handguns(38spl,9mm,45acp,etc...) They work great for plinking the short range ones that pop up either in the middle of the trail you're driving in on, or right on the edge of the trail. These critters are the MOST hated and should be terminated with extreme prejudice. Nothing is more miserable than driving along, looking over the pasture, and slamming down into a hole they've dug in the road. The rancher will REALLY appreciate it when you pop them.
Other good to know stuff:
*Get yourself a wide brimmed hat. The hotter and brighter it is outside, the better your shooting will be. Our heat out here is a dry heat and is very deceptive. You'll be fried like a lobster before you realize it. It only takes one time of blistering the backs of your ears and neck to make you want a hat.
*Have you thought about a muzzle brake for your boomer? My bud has one on his 204 and it's GREAT. Recoil is reduced to ZERO and you can spot your own hits, even at 24x. Makes shooting way more fun. I worked over a group of half a dozen doggies with his and was blowing them up into a sage brush behind the mound they were on. By the time I was done, it looked like Stephen Kings Christmas tree.
*We use bipods instead of sandbags, for our front rests. It allows faster shifts from target to target. It's a pain in the butt to spend all that time adjusting bags to get on one, only to have him scamper off 20 yards while you're trying to get set up on him.
*We use a rag, soaked in gun oil, to cool our barrels. I use ed's red. When my gun heats up, I reach in the cooler, open the DOUBLE Ziplock baggies(Don't want MT DEW or sammages to taste like ed's red) and just wipe down the outside of the barrel, and pull a saturated boresnake down the barrel, every 20 shots or so, just to help keep it cool and clean.
*Spotters. We set up with the shooting bench beside the truck and pointing 90 degrees from the bed. Spotter sits in a lawn chair in the bed, directly behind and above the shooter. This eliminates problems trying to convey target locations. In some areas it's nice if you both draw sketches of the town you're shooting, and agree on some easily defined landmarks for reference points. It sucks to spend 5 minutes trying to explain to someone looking at a field of 500 prairie dogs, which ONE you're going to shoot next.
*Video. When it's too windy to coyote hunt, the ice is still too thin to fish on, or we just need a good laugh, we pop in the video we've shot of us mowing down prairie dogs. I really don't consider it a good piece of video unless the gore content makes the Zapruder film look like a Disney animated feature.

[Uncle R.]

This forum is awesome - and you guys are great.
Lots of good advice here.
Thanks again!
Uncle R.

[scrapcan]

All of the above are good suggestions, especially the hat and sunblock. Take something to lay on, the ground gets hot.

I have to agree with Waksupi that you better take a 22lr. I have been a WY resident all my life and have shot dogs all over this state. And every time I did not take the 22lr, I was mad at my self. And as stated earlier they are not long range guns, but not all shots are long range.

I say take what you got. I have shot dogs with every rifle I have ever had and tried with most handguns also. As stated not all shots are long range. Nothing quite like connecting with something that you have shot and know how to shoot.

The other thing to remember is that you don't have to shoot everything on the red line for velocity/pressure. Work some loads up that are fun to shoot in some of your rifles. Take what you can carry. Hope you are driving, if so you can take whatever will fit. You can always leave out a coule of pairs of pants to get another rifle in.

Also with your range estimation, you have a built-in range estimator if you have a variable power scope. Preferably a higher power one works best. Find you a range and make a small target roughly the size of the the dog and find where the target fits some part of the scope recticle at different ranges. make you a small cheat sheet and stick it to the stocky/your off hand/etc... (this also works well for deer/antelope is you use about a 16-18 inch target and find what ranges the power matches up to. This lets you carry another sandwich instead of the rangefinder gadget.

You can also look at your scope manufacturers site to see if they have scope subtends that will tell you what the different parts of of the recticle measure. Although it is generally given at 100 yrds.

One other thing is to use the point blank range method using the variable power. You decide on your window of trajectory (i.e. inches of strike zone or vitals area on big game) look at where your rifle shoots +X to -X that covers the stike zone and find out where your scope fits the max range from trajectory. anything that fits or is bigger at that distance, you hold dead on. Sounds harder than it is.

Judging the wind I can't help you with, that is where the fun will come in.

Also take lots of water and make sure you drink water. If the elevation is considerably different (higher) than you are used to, drinking water will help alot.

[lovedogs]

You must have had some tough 'dogs to need a .44. Maybe they grew 'em bigger back then, huh? I've messed with some pistols in 'dog towns, too. But I quit because I hate to see the poor little buggers suffer. When I hit 'em with a hot centerfire they just go up in a puff of red mist. Well, sometimes just a splatter of hair and guts... but you get the idea. They never hear the crack of the gun. I hate shooting the poor little things anyway but it needs done. Guess I'm getting soft in my old age.

[twoworms]

I would take a my AR-15 its a Rock River 24" bull/heavy barrel and shoot the Win 45gr white box ammo. And my Rem in 204, it would be a dog smoker way out there.
And for fun my new CZ 550 in 375H&H...

Good luck,

Tim

[Old Ironsights]

You must have had some tough 'dogs to need a .44. Maybe they grew 'em bigger back then, huh? I've messed with some pistols in 'dog towns, too. But I quit because I hate to see the poor little buggers suffer. When I hit 'em with a hot centerfire they just go up in a puff of red mist. Well, sometimes just a splatter of hair and guts... but you get the idea. They never hear the crack of the gun. I hate shooting the poor little things anyway but it needs done. Guess I'm getting soft in my old age.

Nah, just didn't have a rifle handy at the time and thought it would be interesting to surprise the guys who were all shooting .223s. Shoulda seen 'em jump when the Smith let go (they hadn't seen me get it out). :twisted:

Got so I rather enjoyed using it though.

[Pat I.]

("These critters are the MOST hated and should be terminated with extreme prejudice."
"By the time I was done, it looked like Stephen Kings Christmas tree."
"I really don't consider it a good piece of video unless the gore content makes the Zapruder film look like a Disney animated feature.")

Man you're starting to scare me!! One thing I like about this topic is the word "Fun" is getting thrown around a lot and sometimes I think we forget that that's what shooting should be all about.

Pat

[spottedpony]

It looks like everyones pretty much covered all the bases, but i'll toss my penny's worth in too.
My vote goes with the .22-250 they shoot flat, & ive been sucessful with mine out to about 500 yards, even in a 3 dog cross wind, once i got that part right.
I currently shoot both an old Remington 788 in the said caliber, with a 10x burris target scope, and an old Ruger 77V that wears a 40x weaver target scope.
with either speer 52gr hp, or sierra 53 grain match hp both shoot sub 1/2 moa at around 3500 fps.
though neither rifle likes boattails, flatbase gives much better accuracy.

The 788 gets beat around a little, used more like a ranch rifle & hasnt suffered in accuracy at all that i can tell. Though with that light bbl, it doesnt take long to heat up. the triggers a little kludgy but a spring kit helped out immensily with that.

The ruger, sports a harris bipod & trigger is crisp at about 2 lbs & both have been glass bedded with the fwd 3 inches free floated.

When i lived in Colorado, we shot alot of dogs with those bullets & with a good center punched hit, they'd just leave 4 feet and a tail. Around here, occasionally we shoot crows, and you just see a puff of black feathers LOL.

[Bullshop]

spottedponey
I too get great accuracy with the 52gn Speer HP but its been poor for me for long range. It just seems to drift more than more pointed bullets of the same weight. Its prolly that gaping hollow nose. In contrast the 52gn Hornady match with just a pin hole hollow point does very well. The Speer is a very explosive bullet though. I once tried it from a 10" fire ball on a skinned coyote carcass broad side and they did not shoot through.
BIC/BS

[DanWalker]

Man you're starting to scare me!! One thing I like about this topic is the word "Fun" is getting thrown around a lot and sometimes I think we forget that that's what shooting should be all about.
Pat

Sorry, Didn't mean to offend. It was actually an attempt at humor.
Guess I've been out on oil rigs too long.......

[Pat I.]

Sorry, Didn't mean to offend. It was actually an attempt at humor.
Guess I've been out on oil rigs too long.......

No offense taken just don't think I'd want you telling me scary stories on a dark stormy night.

[DanWalker]

No offense taken just don't think I'd want you telling me scary stories on a dark stormy night.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2898&stc=1&d=1169865264
warface.jpg

Me? Scary?
NAAAAH!
I'm a snuggle under the covers and watch chick flicks, new age, sensitive kinda guy......

[sundog]

Dan, yea, next thing y'all will tell us that the bursting pdog thing is nothing more than getting in tough with yern feminine side. HAR!

About that pic. Just how big are your dogs? Anyway! sundog

[DanWalker]

that pic is circa 1989. I'm a proud graduate of the USMC school of sensitivity in Parris Island. The older I get, the better I was.....
Actually we shot a town 2 years ago that had the biggest doggies I've ever seen.
Sadly, it didn't last...
It's getting harder and harder out here to find good towns to shoot. Ranchers are poisoning them, developers are building on top of them, and thoughtless trespassing idiots are getting gates that were once open, locked and posted.

[gregg]

[QUOTE=
It's getting harder and harder out here to find good towns to shoot. Ranchers are poisoning them, developers are building on top of them, and thoughtless trespassing idiots are getting gates that were once open, locked and posted.[/QUOTE]
Same here in SD.
More and more out of staters and more pressure on the
hunting. $20 bucks a day here will get you a shot out boreing
dog town. I hear $50 will get something.
Take your wife and two or three kids and shells and gets to be alot of money for a weekend. We all ways tried to do every thing as a family.
One thing 223 will do most of the shooting needed done. Anything bigger faster heats up way to fast. 223 heats up fast enough you should have more than one.
I shoot a 12FV and just picked up a Stevens 200 both in 223. Stevens from the Sportsman Warehouse. $259 tag with $10 off for $249 plus change and tax.
Hope when I retire to do enough shooting of rats large and small to have to rebarrel these two a few times each. Thats another thing I like about the Savage line. Rebarrel or what ever you want yourself with a few cheap tools.
Had fun one year trying to get to 40 or less yards with my Rossi 44-40 92 carbine and wacking them. One time waiting on a barrel to cool zoned a dog in with the 44-40 at 220 to 240yards. That old time slow moveing lead bullet slapped that dog right off his hole dead as a door nail.
FUN STUFF AND A heads up guys. Once the gals see the Red Mist and Stir Fry sized parts in the air they get hooked. Nothing like taking that someone special with shooting rats. That gets you more rifles and gear with there support. Not to be taken lightly and well worth the price huh?
Oh ya and it all a lot of FUN.
OBTW
Love the look of the CZ line. Being a BP Round Ball shooter from way back love the set triggers. I hear good things about CZ's

[lovedogs]

We sure can have lots of fun with those prairie poodles. A few years ago a buddy and I shot some cool video on a 'dog shoot. We thought of sending a copy to Animal Planet. It'd be cool to be there when they viewed something like that, huh? But we decided against it... the anti's are already difficult enough without us agitating them even more.