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View Full Version : Time to fit a new cylinder!



tek4260
08-09-2011, 04:52 PM
With all the questions about cylinder fitting, I thought I'd share some of my measurements and what is involved.

I have an older NM 45 convertable with a nickel plated 45 Colt cylinder. It has been a project gun from the start. First the front sight was too short. That was fixed with a piece of 1/8 keystock being pinned and soldered on top of the front sight. Next, the bore had ridges in both the lands and grooves, almost like it was threaded with a fine tooth tap. Firelapping took care of that. The next problem is the .455 throats. There isn't much I can do other than replace the cylinder, which is what I am in the process of doing. The ideal solution would be to have an OM Super cylinder rechambered to minimum spec 45 with .4525 throats. That way I would end up with tight chambers, unfluted cylinder, and recessed case heads. These attributes are the way I think they should be built by the way.

Since I am doing all this at home, that idea is out. So I am doing the next best thing which is fitting a Bisley cylinder and removing the roll mark. The factory cylinder measures:

1.948 OAL
.152 ratchet
.092 bushing
1.702 cylinder only

The replacement Bisley

1.979 OAL
.153 ratchet
.124 bushing
1.703 cylinder only

Looking at the measurements, I can shorten the bushing to ~.092 and it should drop in. That extra .001 in the bushing and the .001 in the cylinder should close my b/c gap by .002, to around .002(which is good) and only cost me .001 in firing pin contact. I "think" this will be okay considering I have a #26 mainspring.

The extreme difference in length in my case is due to the fact that the 45 is an early New Model. Parts from like vintage revolvers are a lot closer to the same.

In the spirit of home hack job, I will be filing the bushing by hand rather that using a lathe or a 90 deg facing cutter. It is easy enough to keep things true if you know how to use a file and take your time and .032 isn't much.

A lot to do is made about adjusting timing when people answer the questions others have about fitting cylinders, which is usually adding an ACP/9mm cylinder. The response is to let a gunsmith adjust the timing. "IF" you are adding a cylinder, get a range rod and check it. If it is out of time, the correction to the revolver will cause the original to be out of time. The smith isn't going to go and adjust the ratchet teeth or weld and recut the bolt notches. Excluding Murphy(or my luck), everything is pre timed. Slack in the notches/latch plus the forcing cone make up for tiny differences in the individual frames and cylinders. All of this was said to say, I know the timing won't be an issue in this swap.

Hopefully in the next few days I'll be able to complete this and get some decent groups without leading. I just have to stare, think, and measure it a few more times and then I can get started.

Piedmont
08-09-2011, 06:45 PM
I would just shoot .454 or .455" bullets. Then your problem throats wouldn't be a problem.

leftiye
08-09-2011, 09:11 PM
Plus your oversized chambers would be less of a problem (they're all oversized). Need looser/larger sizing die.

bigboredad
08-09-2011, 09:38 PM
[smilie=s:if you saw the the cylinder he is replacing you'd have a better understanding.:redneck:

tek4260
08-09-2011, 09:56 PM
Nickel plated Colt cylinder and ACP cylinder... Guess which one will become a pencil holder?

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/2011-07-11202244.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/101_2688.jpg

white eagle
08-09-2011, 10:50 PM
I have an extra cylinder that I was going to ream to .453 but it seems I dulled it to the point that it is now a .451
Hate it when that happens

subsonic
08-10-2011, 04:39 PM
I was going to do similar, but in my case, the 45acp cyl i was going to put in my bisley was already too small in some dimensions and would have required setting the barrel back, cutting on my already fitted factory 45 colt cylinder and other fun, so i sold the cylinder instead.

MT Gianni
08-11-2011, 12:04 AM
I fit a 9mm cyl to my blackhawk using a similar system. Filed and finished with 200 the 400 grit paper. BC gap is about 0.0015" which is tight but has not yet bound up in hot weather. Increasing the gap would not allow all ammo to chamber and rather than mess with a bushing or spacer I have left it as is. I checked alignment with a rod and found things to be acceptable. Accuracy is good with the 9, but not great. I think a forcing cone will fix a lot of your issues of the boolits are starting in it straight.

Piedmont
08-11-2011, 03:40 AM
I fit a 9mm cyl to my blackhawk using a similar system. Filed and finished with 200 the 400 grit paper. BC gap is about 0.0015" which is tight but has not yet bound up in hot weather. Increasing the gap would not allow all ammo to chamber and rather than mess with a bushing or spacer I have left it as is. I checked alignment with a rod and found things to be acceptable. Accuracy is good with the 9, but not great. I think a forcing cone will fix a lot of your issues of the boolits are starting in it straight.

What do your cylinder throats on the 9 mm cylinder measure? Three of us on this board have slugger Ruger DA cylinder throats and gotten .351, which is absurdly small.

tek4260
08-11-2011, 07:25 AM
Ended up leaving it .0015 longer than the original, so now it has no play forward or backwards. It passed the range rod test, so now all there is to do is to remove the roll mark and re-blue! It was hard to start this one once I realized it was a perfect fit as it came for another one of my Blackhawks.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/DSCN0184.jpg

tek4260
08-16-2011, 09:58 PM
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/DSCN0214.jpg

Left group, original cylinder with oversized throats.
Right group, new Bisley cylinder

Ruger only Mihec over 24.0 gr of H110 @25 yards