Why are we testing Handguns at 25 yds?

[Irascible]

Awfully good groups at 25 yds sometimes stink at 50. Is it an eyesight peoblem? Most handguns are not scope equipped so Eyesight has to enter into it. I struggle with open sights myself (Merrit aperture, side shields, occluder over non shooting eye, etc), so I kept moving the targets back to the farthest distance that I could use open sights well. I ended up at 40 yds. I can see the target and the sights well AND get a better idea of accuracy.
SO, I suggest we have a standard of accuracy somewhere between 40 and 50 yards for open sight handguns and 100yds for a scoped gun.
Rifle shooters seemed to have settled on 100 yd groups so shouldn't we have a standard?

[S.R.Custom]

...Rifle shooters seemed to have settled on 100 yd groups so shouldn't we have a standard?

We do. It's 25 yards. ;)

[txbirdman]

25 yds. is just a place to start testing. I've never had an handgun that shot good at 50 yds.+ but lousey at 25.

[Buddy]

I use the 25yd distance for getting on paper. But I have pretty much given up on precision shooting without a scope due to lousy eyesight. I do shoot the 1911 guns @ 25yds but all my other handguns have scopes/red dots installed. I rarely shoot under 100yds with them and have begun shooting @ 150yds which is pretty much a long shot in my neck of the woods.

[subsonic]

Because of what most people use handguns for. Nowadays, a lot of "testing" happens at 7yd, 25ft, or even 15yds or 50ft.

90% of the people you will run into (not just 90% of the gun people) think that handguns are short-range fighting tools. They will never grasp the idea of a "long range handgun" or being able to hit things at extended range. Don't get me started on "snubbies" and how worthless they are. :roll:

[Guesser]

I have always used paper targets to get a feel for what I am doing with a revolver. Some revolvers I have a tendency to shoot low and left, it's me, not the gun. After I wring out the load that works in a revolver I drop the target thing and move out to at least 100 yards. My standard for a revolver is 357 Magnum, minute of jack rabbit at 150 yards I was out a couple weeks ago shooting clay pigeons on a hill side at 100+ yards with small frame S&W and Colts shooting 32 S&W hand loads. Great fun. I have no problem using a 38 Special Official Police or Model 10 out around that range. I do shoot paper at 25/50 but only to verify my hold on the gun-am I still shooting low and left?, that kind of verification. I like long distance hand gunning.

[Whitworth]

I will sometimes start at 25 yards just to get it on paper, but then I go to 50 and 100 yards.

[odis]

For me it depends on the gun, today if the weather allows me too I plan to go to apit and test some loads in 44special with my 3" barreled 624 at 25 yds. max. I don't see any reason to test them at any greater range. My Red hawk Black Hawk and BFR are all hunting pistols and I test loads for them at 50 yds. Where I live and hunt I have never shot a deer at any greater range then 75 yds.

[bryonbush]

i think you must look at what your use of a pistol will be. if your military/LE, then 25 yards in a tactical situation is plenty far enough. but if your just target shooting, then 25+ is a great show of marksmanship. the average military/LE shootout occurs in a very close distance and at a very fast pace. thats why they need to pratice shooting and moving, and fast pace drawing and shooting and be acurate with it.

on the other side, if your going to be a target shooter, and you have all the time in the world to line up your shots and be able to hit multiple targets at different ranges, then practice that. i think its all about what type of shooting you like/ need to do.

[Lloyd Smale]

I do alot of load testing at 25 yards. Its as far as we shoot in competion and for hunting guns with my old eyes im down to about 50-75 yards max with an open sighted handgun and ive never seen a load that shot an inch at 25 open up so bad that i couldnt have made a kill zone shot at 75 on deer sized game. I do though when im done working up loads test the best 2 at 50 and at that time sight my sixgun in at 50 for hunting. Another thing 25 does is take some of the human element out of it. A little shake will move the bullet an inch at 25 might move it 3 inches at 50.

[bearcove]

I also do load devolpment at 25 yds. If its bad at 25 it won't be good at 100. When I like a load at 25 then I load a batch and shoot them farther out. 75 yds is a far shot with a revolver for me. A contender with a 6x scope is treated like a rifle, 50 to 2 or 300 yds.

[Ben]

S.R.Custom :

25 yds., yes..... I'm in agreement with that view.

It is only my opinion .....But....I think few owners of metallic sighted handguns have much need for or skilled experience with their handguns past 25 yds. I realize that a few shooters enjoy shooting their handguns at longer distances and for all that enjoy that aspect of hand gunning, I say....GO AT IT !

When it comes to the majority of the other typical American shooters, the great majority of them will CHOOSE 25 yds. or less. Many shooter's eyes ( particularly if he is over 40 ) , will limit them to shooting at 25 yds. or less.

Many shooters also view the use of a handgun as pretty much a self defense option. Few believe they will have to defend themselves at the 150 yard mark with their favorite pistol or revolver. I realize this does not take into account the American handgun hunter who has a valid need for shooting at these distances ( and possibly even farther ).

Ummm, I wonder if there was a good reason why cops for years have concentrated on 7 yds., 15 yds. and 25 yds. with their pistols and revolvers ?

[PacMan]

Ya gota start some where.

[bearcove]

Ya gota start some where.

Thats a fact!:Fire:

[odis]

For me it depends on the gun, today if the weather allows me too I plan to go to apit and test some loads in 44special with my 3" barreled 624 at 25 yds. max. I don't see any reason to test them at any greater range. My Red hawk Black Hawk and BFR are all hunting pistols and I test loads for them at 50 yds. Where I live and hunt I have never shot a deer at any greater range then 75 yds.Mother nature smiled at me today and I just got back from the pit. My 3in. barreled 624 shoots very well at 25 yds with the classic Skelton load.

[redneckdan]

Cause testing at 50 yds means I have to walk twice as far.

[Whistler]

The main problem is that people don't see load development and skill training as requiring different settings. I shoot a lot of different events and divisions in competition, all from high paced IPSC shooting to slow paced 200 meter metallic silhouette. Almost all my load development is done at 50 yards for Specials/autos and 100 yards for Magnums. I could test my magnums at 25y or 50y, but they would just shoot hole-in-hole, so it wouldn't tell me anything.

Also, asking the question "was the group shot rested or offhand?" should be totally unnecessary. If the shooter talks about the accuracy of a particular load or firearm, then he should be talking about the accuracy of the firearm, not his ability (and hence source for error) as a shooter. The only thing interesting is what the firearm in question at the time can do with that particular load. All other factors has to be excluded. Enter the Ransom Rest.

When the load development is done, THEN the training and skill development can begin. Even when shooting IPSC with 0.2 seconds between each shot at less than 1 yard , I still make sure it holds 1 inch at 25 yards before even thinking about going to the competition. It would probably not make any difference if the load held 3-5 inches at 25y, but it will give me my mind some ease knowing that it only comes down to what I can do, not what I would wish my gun could.

[waksupi]

I can't find big enough targets to shoot at fifty yards. They have to be very, very big.

[35remington]

From observing pistol shooters on my range, who certainly have the option of shooting at fifty yards instead of 25, almost none of them ever do.

By choice.

You may agree with that or you may not. But that's what they do.

By "pistol" I mean your typical medium sized auto or revolver.

The 100+ yard shooters are single shot handgun users, generally. Occasionally you'll find some long barreled revolver shooters having a go at fifty, but almost never at any longer range.

Probably due to the coarseness of the sights, and also probably due to the fact that almost nobody intends to shoot anything at fifty yards or further.

I suppose there are a few guys like me who practice at longer range with their iron sighted revolvers for deer hunting, but I never see them. And for myself, iron sights at 100 yards with a handgun is pushing it......especially with your only shot occurring as unsupported (offhand shooting) out of a deer stand.

There's a reason handgun hunting is often called "bowhunting with a revolver" for most who try it. Ranges that we are confident in are short, for the most part. Unless I practice like hell. Then they're still pretty short.

[Shooter6br]

At 10 yards to start i find i pick up technique errors

[Guesser]

IHMSA came about because handgunners wanted to shoot reactive targets at longer ranges than 25/50 yards. I don't belong or compete any longer, as I've moved and there isn't a range or club within easy distance, although there is talk of building one. I learned to like long range open sight revolvers. The longest killing shot I ever made on a jack rabbit was 175 paces(Before we had range finders in our pocket). I have taken gophers out to 100 yards with a Ruger Standard Model 22 Long Rifle semi auto 6" barreled handgun with fixed sights. I don't hit any great percentage but it is a lot more fun than poking holes on top of holes in paper at close range. I have scoped long range hand guns but the open sighted revolvers are a lot more fun. When I do go to the range I use my hand guns on the 300 yard rifle range using all the standard target stands 50/100/200/300 yards.

[redneckdan]

TThe only thing interesting is what the firearm in question at the time can do with that particular load. All other factors has to be excluded. Enter the Ransom Rest.



The ransom rest does not 'exclude all other factors', it introduces another one. Not only does it take skill to properly set up and use one but the platform being tested will usually shoot differently then when hand fired.

[white eagle]

my standard is 50 yds
25 seems to close

[ColColt]

I'm still am blown away by guys shooting a handgun at 100 yards. To me, that's rifle range. I don't intend on ever trying that...eyesight, if nothing else, won't let me with iron sights. I'd have to have a black bullseye big as a slop jar to see it.

[Walt]

We do. It's 25 yards. ;)

Exactly!

[357shooter]

25 yards works for me. Since about the only place I can shoot is at a local range. It's 25 yards long and that's it. I don't have a choice.

I do get to shoot to 100 every couple of months, at a open silhouette event. That range is private and has limited membership with a long waiting list, so I'm not a member.

I do like a scope for evaluating bullets and loads, a red dot it more fun, but on a 357 Blackhawk I like the iron sights. Even out to 100 yards I really prefer the iron sights, when shooting off-hand.

Now I better go read some of the other replies to catch up.

[maglvr]

Ok, I admit it! i'm guilty of the 25 yard practice range also.
However, where I hunt there is nothing even resembling a shot that long!
Why practice shooting at 100 yards, to shoot a bear at 20 feet? ;)

[williamwaco]

25 yards is what the range allows.

I would love to test at 50 yards but my range will not allow it.

I can shoot a scope sighted Contender or bolt action single shot at the rifle range but no repeating handguns or open sights.

[stubshaft]

Over 95% of my handgun shooting is from 50 yds on out. I usually only shoot 25 to get the sights in the neighborhood.

[Bret4207]

I wish I could see to shoot beyond 25 FEET anymore! Seriously, I have shot a lot at ranges over 100 yards with a handgun but these days I just can't see to do it. Maybe it's the target too. I can lob boolits into man sized targets all day long at 100 yards, but I don't shoot at man targets out in the field! When you're trying to pop a coyote or woodchuck in the head at somewhere "around" 50 yards with a 22 Kit Gun...takes younger eyes than I own.


Here's the other part of the question- I still read magazine articles and see "accuracy tests" with handguns at 15 yards! So if the gun writers think 45 feet is just right, what are we peons complaining about?

[bobthenailer]

I do load testing for handguns at 50' for iron sights and 25 yards for a red dot or a scope . if the load is accurate i check it at longer ranges that i will be useing it at. in my experince if it is accurate at 25 yards its usually but not allways accurate at 50 yards ! if its accurate at 50 yards its accurate at 100 yards .

[Old Caster]

Bullseye shooters shoot at 50 yards for slowfire with one hand and standing on their hind legs. The 10 ring is a little over 3 inches and quite a few 100's have been fired. 10 shots in 10 minutes. Some even use iron sights.

[mooman76]

Why do we have to have a standard? I shoot for me and what makes me comfortable with what I shoot. I don't shoot for you or the guy at the range that I don't know. The only person I have to be better than is myself.

[9.3X62AL]

Mooman has a good point--we all shoot to satisfy ourselves, when ya come right down to it. 25 yard targets give me a good indication whether a load has "possibilities" afield at longer ranges or not. It's also an "average" of sorts between NRA Bullseye distance (50 yards) and real-world self-defense ranges--which range from bad-breath-in-your-face to about 7 yards out.

[camaro1st]

S.R.Custom :


Ummm, I wonder if there was a good reason why cops for years have concentrated on 7 yds., 15 yds. and 25 yds. with their pistols and revolvers ?

25yds from the car to the door, 15 yds. from door to the rack, and 7yds from rack to the coffee maker. that is the lay out of the donut shop.:twisted:[smilie=1: just kidding LEOS.[smilie=s:

[btroj]

I agree with Mooman. Question should be "Why do you test handguns at the range you do". "We" don't have a standard.
I use 25 yards for most handguns as it is the range I can shoot them beat at. If I was using a scoped handgun for hunting I would go to 50 or 100 yards.

Do what works for YOU.

[Guesser]

Keith is reputed as having said" If you are going to shoot long range with a hand gun, use one that is big enough to throw up mud, snow, dirt or dust so you can correct your aim." I like to see where I missed and with a big bullet I can do that, they are called "ranging shots" and are just as much fun as any other shot. It is great practice for learning your gun/cartridge capability and your ability to judge distance and effect. 32 S&W and 38 Special at clay pigeons on a 100 yard bank are a lot of cheap fun.

[GARCIA]

Keith is reputed as having said" If you are going to shoot long range with a hand gun, use one that is big enough to throw up mud, snow, dirt or dust so you can correct your aim." I like to see where I missed and with a big bullet I can do that, they are called "ranging shots" and are just as much fun as any other shot. It is great practice for learning your gun/cartridge capability and your ability to judge distance and effect. 32 S&W and 38 Special at clay pigeons on a 100 yard bank are a lot of cheap fun.

I am with you on this!
I try my weapons at 25yds and if things are good I will try the longer ranges. Where I shoot they have a 100 yard range that you can use handguns on. My eyesight is not like it was when I was a lot younger but I can sure scare a 20oz plastic bottle. Been known to hit one every so often also!!

Tom

[Guesser]

I was out this morning with a Colt PPS 38 Special, a Colt Trooper 357, a Ruger Security Six, a Colt Official Police, and a S&W 31-1 in 32 S&W Long. 325 round of 38-357-32, a great time was had by all those involved-ME!!!!!!!!!!! 100 yards is completely within reason.

[btroj]

Are we talking about shooting or testing? I enjoy shooting at bottles at 100 yards too but that isn't load testing.

I plink at various ranges but I TEST at 25 yards.

[Guesser]

It is always a test. My guns all shoot better than I do so I am testing to see how well they stand up to the handicap I put on them. Every time I shoot it is a test and I learn something every time I spend an hour shooting, been shooting by myself for almost 60 years and I'm still getting an education.

[DragoonDrake]

I shoot at 25yards for everything; pistol, rifle, bow, crossbow, air rifle, and (spit balls). I shoot that because the range is 20 minute drive away and basically free. The 200 yard range is an hour away and costs lots of $$$. I could become a member at another club that has a 600 yard range but that is a 2 hour drive away. I test at 25 yards because $ is an issue.

Now please realize I do try to shoot one match of IHMSA every month and my practice for those 200 meter shots is on a 3/4'' black dot at 25 yards.

Adam

[Frank]

The real question is why is it some think they need to shoot at 25 yds to find the best load? Perhaps it's because that's the only range where they can get a decent group. At 50 yds, their combination is scattering shots. :razz:

[jameslovesjammie]

The real question is why is it some think they need to shoot at 25 yds to find the best load? Perhaps it's because that's the only range where they can get a decent group. At 50 yds, their combination is scattering shots. :razz:

In all honesty...that is probably 95% of the people who shoot. Our indoor range is a 25 yard range, but the club moved the firing line up so the longest you can shoot is 20. Most shoot at 7 or 15 yards. Few shoot for groups...most shoot to make noise and make holes in paper.

[Guesser]

I don't think I have ever fired on an indoor range. It would be a strange sensation I would think. I can shoot to 600 yards out in the coulee in the breaks that serves as my range. I can stand and shoot a 180 degree half circle when using my pick up tail gate as my ammo table. I don't think I would like to trade that for a 20 yard indoor "range"? I would feel like I was shooting in a closet.

[bearcove]

Its not so bad in january.

[Guesser]

January out here on the prairie can be invigorating. I shoot just as often, just not as long. We have a lot of sunny days and down in the coulee I'm out of the wind to a large degree.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Those of us who grew up reading Kieth, realize what a handgun can do.
Many of the younger generation belong to the spray & pray crowd.
So choose short range. Shooting groups on paper at 15ft. and calling it good.
I start at 25yds. then shoot the best 3-4 loads at 50yds.
I still love to shoot steel plates at 50, 100,150,&200yds. but I miss more nowadays.
dag nab-it.:Fire::Fire:

[shotstring]

I pretty much do all my handgun testing at 50 feet or so with very small targets. This seems to equate to larger targets at longer distances without all the fuss of finding places to shoot with longer ranges and setting up targets at long ranges. Plus I don't see as well as I used to.

But the way I see it, except for the small group that hunts or does long range competition, the handgun is regarded as simply a defensive weapon to be used at short distances. In fact, good luck explaining the need for defending your life at more than 15 yards in almost all practical situations. So people don't find the need or inclination to practice shooting at longer ranges.

I used to love to plink away at 100 yards with my 45 colts, or even with my magnums and the guns and ammo were certainly up to it. Just never seemed practical for any reason other than it was fun to do on occasion.

[9.3X62AL]

Sometimes in our quest for accuracy and performance, we can lose sight of the "fun" element in our shooting pursuits. While I was still working, a lot of the shooting I did was pretty serious work--prepping for finality exchanges with armed ******es. In retirement, there is still a bit of that--but a LOT more recreational and hunting-related shooting gets done by me these days.

I've been unable due to time conflicts to do a whole lot of shooting this summer. I'm not happy about that, because I find shooting to be a relaxing, enjoyable pastime that sharpens my senses and relieves stress. With a few weeks since my last shoot day, I'm getting a little hard to be around. Marie INSISTS that I hit the range on Monday and/or Tuesday, and brandished a rolling pin to emphasize the assignment's importance a day or so ago. We call that a CLUE where I omce worked.

[Lloyd Smale]

your probably right frank but that probalby answers the question too. A guy tests to see what shoots well in the gun and to see that has to shoot within his abilitys. If you scatter shots at 50 yards it sure isnt going to tell you if its your load or you. I think for the average handgun hunter hunting ranges are probably between 25 and 50 yards anyway. theres very few handguners that have any business shooting at live game much past 50 yards anyway and alot of them have no business shooting even that far. So if a guy knows hes going to hunt where shots wont go past say 35 yards what need does he have to know how well his gun groups at 50? Personaly i know i can shoot at 50 yards. The range i shoot at is set up with a permenant 25 yard backstop and its easier to use then the portable at 50. I can shoot at 25, see my groups without a spotting scope and work up loads all day. I find the best couple and take those out to 50. 99 times out of a 100 what shoots at 25 also shoots at 50 and even a 100. Out past about a 150 yards is when bullets shape can play hell on accuracy even with a good load but out to a 100 its pretty consistant.
The real question is why is it some think they need to shoot at 25 yds to find the best load? Perhaps it's because that's the only range where they can get a decent group. At 50 yds, their combination is scattering shots. :razz:

[crash87]

Awfully good groups at 25 yds sometimes stink at 50. Is it an eyesight problem? Most handguns are not scope equipped so Eyesight has to enter into it. I struggle with open sights myself (Merritt aperture, side shields, occluder over non shooting eye, etc), so I kept moving the targets back to the farthest distance that I could use open sights well. I ended up at 40 yds. I can see the target and the sights well AND get a better idea of accuracy.
SO, I suggest we have a standard of accuracy somewhere between 40 and 50 yards for open sight handguns and 100yds for a scoped gun.
Rifle shooters seemed to have settled on 100 yd groups so shouldn't we have a standard?

Well, YOU, can suggest, but I don't think it will fly. For one thing, it's really hard to change things in the shooting world that have been the norm and considered the "standard" for so long. Myself, I don't consider good enough to test loads at beyond 50, so I always start at 25 and move to 50, just to see. Although with the right handgun sights and barrel length I am good enough at 100, My Ruger Redhawk comes to mind, my Colt SAA, doesn't even get the thought.
Back to the question, as to why, I don't know, then again why do we shoot 3 shot, or 5 shot groups with everything, even a 6 revolver? OH OH!
CRASH87

[odis]

As to 5 shot groups for me its because the ammo box's are fifty or one hundred capacity so I shoot 2 five shot strings per load and measure.

[357shooter]

SO, I suggest we have a standard of accuracy somewhere between 40 and 50 yards for open sight handguns and 100yds for a scoped gun.
I overlooked this part of the original post. That would leave me and many others out of any discussion. 25 yards is the longest distance available to me for load development.

Handguns that are loaded for SD get shot at 7-10 or 15 yards, they would also be excluded.

Why don't we develop loads using what is available, and state it in the results. Like we do today.

No need to fix something that isn't broke.

[Guesser]

The "FUN" of long distance hand gunning that does not come into play at short ranges and tiny targets to simulate long distance precision, is seeing the dust raise and correcting the point of aim. That is a judgement lesson that cannot be learned at 50' or even 50 yds. on paper. I like the exercise of firing and let the revolver drop slightly and then seeing the boolit impact and correcting for a follow up shot. It is a lot of fun using 38 Special with a MV of 850 out at 150 yards and correcting and testing your own personal guess factor. Anyone who has hunted antelope or mule deer or even prairie dogs out here on the prairie has done exactly that, but with a rifle. It is "funner" with a revolver!!!!!!

[Frank]

Lloyd Smale:

If you scatter shots at 50 yards it sure isnt going to tell you if its your load or you.
What works at 50 yards doesn't need to come back for any reason. Those that have to come back simply can't handle it. They are scattering shots. It's their load, or gun or them.
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=4171

[Markbo]

It's Hell getting old. What used to be routine is now a helluva lot of work just to be able to shoot open sights and know if it's me or the gun or the load. When reading the gun rags I pretty much dismiss any accuracy tests under 25 yards, but 25 yards can tell you a lot. For me personally my range has 25, 50 and 100 yard targets at the rifle range.

Their pistol range has 7, 15 and ONE 25 yard target. All standing only, so not conducive to a lot of different loads and gear. I know I stopped shooting at 7 yds as soon as my very first self defense class was over. There is nothing positive in gun handling or marksmanship that 7 yds will do for that 15 won't do better so I do all my draw/fire practice is at that range unless it is a class of some sort. But obviously that won't do for load development - which for me personally is testing. Shooting stuff on the berm at 100 yds with a handgun is NOT testing. It is long range plinking. If I don't know before then that I have an accurate gun & load I am wasting my time trying to do anything but have fun.

Now shooting at paper at 100yds is another matter, but the days of doing that with open sights are pretty much behind me. Blurry is blurry... it doesn't much matter which of the two I can't see if I can't see 'em all! But at 25 with the tools Irascible mentioned I can do fine at 25 and out to 50. 50 is a lot harder, so all my load testing (and it's always load testing until I finally decide the gun is not accurate enough) is done at 25 because that distance tells me - compared to all the others - what is happening. With 2-4 favorites I can then narrow down the testing at 50 on open sighted hunting guns.

I have enough trigger time that I can generally tell if it's me. I can just tell on those days when I am not 'on' and I can also tell when I am having an unusually good day, so I don't think all my loads are magically bullseye only loads. Maybe if I loved somewhere I could set up my own range I could have a 28 yard or 45 yard or 110 targets, but don't see the need.

[Guesser]

I seldom set and shoot at precisely known distances. I guestimate and send a ranging shot and correct from there. Every round fired is a good time had. There are no bad rounds fired, if it goes off when the trigger is pulled, it is good.
30+ plus years ago I worked with a Gunner Mate Chief (guns);GMGC, that had and lived by the philosophy that anything that explodes is good. Needless to say, his patron saint was St. Barbara.

[bowfishn]

When I start putting all 6 shots through one .430" hole at 25 yards ( .0" ctc) I'll have the need to move it out to tell the story. Right now my load 295 grain GCHP at better than 1500 fps and me can only do .7" ctc at 25, mostly me with the flyer. That same load at 100 yards breaks clays every time and at 200 yards will break them half the time, that tells me the load is still stable out to 200 yards. That is as far as I will shoot with my 44 mag Ruger SRH, so it works for me. In the woods it is very seldom I would ever be able to shoot a clear shot to 100 yards. Open hardwoods around here are usually only 50 to 75 yards at best and most shots tracking a deer will give an average of 25 to 50 yards. If I was good enough to sneak up closer on a deer I would use a spear and really have something to talk about.
A buddy of mine back in the early 80's use to shoot a lot with the single shot pistols, he has shot many 5 shot groups less than 1 " at 100 yards, for him 100 yards was the load work up. Funny thing is he always seemed to miss deer when shooting at them with those pistols.

[Guesser]

I like long range open sight hand gunning because it is "fun" with a capital "F-go bang" I do not shoot my hand guns the same way at the range as I have done when hunting. At the range it is strictly for fun. 25 yds is not fun, that's work. Hunting is work, even more work if hunting is successful. I shoot one or two rounds when successful at hunting, that's not really fun. Shooting is fun, that's why I do it. Hunting used to be fun and sometimes vital; it's neither of those things anymore, for me. But casting, loading and shooting is more fun now than ever before and I now have 30 times as many guns to have fun with as I did 30 years ago.

[white eagle]

my groups are so good I don't even leave a hole

[bowfishn]

my groups are so good I don't even leave a hole

That's pretty good the best I can do is one shot one hole groups all day long.

[Guesser]

Was out in the "Breaks" again this morning having FUN shooting long distance with my open sighted hand guns. Took a few shots at a 25 yd. target to see where the 45/45 convertible shot with each cylinder and then went to 100 yds+. Had My Taurus 441 with me, it is easily the most accurate big bore I own. Placed a sheet of copy paper on a backer and set it at 111 paces, fired 4 cylinders (20 rds) and placed 13 of the 240 gr. Lyman 429360 boolits in the white, 2 just barely but I would not want me shooting at me with that gun, I was doing it standing off hand. I only did it that way because of the discussion we have been having here, I surprised myself!!!!!!
Fired 300 rounds of 45 Colt, 45 ACP, 44 Special, 38 Special from 3 handguns and 50 rounds from a Savage Model 10 in 223. Great fun was had by all involved; namely ME!!!!!!

[smokingguns]

From observing pistol shooters on my range, who certainly have the option of shooting at fifty yards instead of 25, almost none of them ever do.

By choice.

You may agree with that or you may not. But that's what they do.

By "pistol" I mean your typical medium sized auto or revolver.

The 100+ yard shooters are single shot handgun users, generally. Occasionally you'll find some long barreled revolver shooters having a go at fifty, but almost never at any longer range.

Probably due to the coarseness of the sights, and also probably due to the fact that almost nobody intends to shoot anything at fifty yards or further.

I suppose there are a few guys like me who practice at longer range with their iron sighted revolvers for deer hunting, but I never see them. And for myself, iron sights at 100 yards with a handgun is pushing it......especially with your only shot occurring as unsupported (offhand shooting) out of a deer stand.

There's a reason handgun hunting is often called "bowhunting with a revolver" for most who try it. Ranges that we are confident in are short, for the most part. Unless I practice like hell. Then they're still pretty short.


'
does that mean my 9 1/2" super red hawk is "A=typical" :)

[Guesser]

I figure that if Bob Munden can do long range with a S&W Model 36, 2" and have fun I can too. Shooting is fun and done safely it is great fun!!! The more of it I do the more fun it is. Long range hand gunning is what I enjoy the most.

[bowfin]

How accurate does a handgun have to be to do what is asked of it?

Of course, that depends on its use. The edge of a scalpel has to be much better than the edge of a butter knife. Having a razor sharp edge on a butter knife doesn't help it when makin a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

It's the same with a defensive handgun. Shooting sub MOA doesn't help in a gunfight if you don't have the time or inclination to study a target to pick out that one, less than an inch area you want to hit with a bullet. Reliability would be king, followed by a design that is quick to deploy and / or easy to carry.

Hunting handguns, accuracy matters much more. Then again, power, weight, handiness, reliability, durability can all come to the forefront under some conditions.

So, I guess I test my guns as I would use them. If you need tight groups at 50 or 100 yards, that should be the benchmark. If you need minute of thug very quickly at 7 yards, then test for a quick, minute of thug gun.

[Guesser]

It is fun at any distance!!!!!!!

[Frank46]

Model 36's are basically a short range revolver for minute of thug as so aptly put. Most any handgun I own could be classed as a self defense handgun, baretta 92fs, sig 239, sig P6, model 10, model 23-4 with 3" and 4" barrels. And last but not least my springfield armory 45. If the range isn't crowded I'll ask the other shooters to let me shoot a few rounds downrange at 21'. Naturally the semi autos I shoot give me excellent groups, not as proficient with the wheel guns as I like but the colt trooper III in 357 really puts them out there. After I finish I usually get a question as to why I did it. And I usually tell them if you have to shoot close up it would be nice to have an idea of where the bullets are grouping. But targets are set at both 25 and 50yds. Usually thats streching it a bit for my 45 auto and the colt. I figure if I know where the golden BB's are going at 21 feet then I have no problem.I have seen shooters shooting a model 36 at 25 and 50yds and it looks like shotgun patterns. me I'm old fashioned. I even tried my little ppk 32 acp at 21' and it will spit those little hollow points into a 3" group no problem. Frank

[bigboredad]

Frank has a excellent point. My carry gun is a xd .45 compact. At fifty yards I'd be lucky to find the target sometimes. I practice at 7-10 yards with my xd since that's where it is most important to me. My fun guns the blackhawk .45's get used at 25 when I'm at the public range. Unless I'm the only at the pistol range then I can shoot kiddy corner and get fifty out of it. The rifle range is too busy most of the times to shoot at fifty and a hundred but in the desert I stretch it out and always use steel targets so I don't have to walk to see if I hit it. I've also used rocks at the ridiculous distance just in case I get a rogue rock that needs to be shown whose boss

[Guesser]

Gotta watch out for those rabid pepsi cans when you are out strolling thru the tall and uncut. The farther out they are neutralized the safer it is for all concerned!!!!

[Lloyd Smale]

I had a ball today shooting clay pigeons at a 150 yards with my 3 inch 1911. Believe me it can be done. I didnt hit them all but any man standing out there would have been peeing his pants or leaking some other fluid.

[olafhardt]

I shoot at 7 steps so I can see the boolit holes also so I can hit the target. A man has got to know his limitations. Fifty yards is a long walk for a pot bellied old fart and I'm doing this for fun.

[Doug Bowser]

I shoot my handguns standing with one hand. Try that at 100 yards. A good K framed S&W .38 will shoot respectable groups at 25 yards from the offhand position. With my 1911 accurized .45, 50 yard one handed standing groups are quite respectable as well.

Doug

[44MAG#1]

I tested at 100 yards this morning off hand.

[Doug Bowser]

I tested at 100 yards this morning off hand.

Sir,

You must be like an Oak. More power to you.

Doug