Gas check fouling

[flyingstick]

I'm just curious why a copper jacketed bullet will copper foul a barrel but a copper gas check won't? or will it?

[Bass Ackward]

I'm just curious why a copper jacketed bullet will copper foul a barrel but a copper gas check won't? or will it?

You sure are going to feel bad about this one. It's called LUBE. :grin:

[44man]

Yep, yep, yep.

[flyingstick]

OK, so i asked for that one. :-D

[Treeman]

Somewhere or other I read some results of putting Liquid Alox on Jacketed bullets--50-100fps higher velocities with no other changes in loading. I also read that some of the Winchester SilverTip handgun loadings incorporated lube grooves and lube in the factory loadings.

[felix]

I'm surprised they haven't done it 50 years ago. ... felix

[texas tenring]

C-mon is there such a thing as a perfect world?

Whats the real answer, I've heard that gas checks will cut down on leading.

So you all are saying, if only bullet manufactures would lube their full length gas check bullets,we would not have copper fouling?

[OLPDon]

I think it was on this board sometime ago someone tried lubing Jbullets and everthing about it was neg fps droped as well as acuuracy.
Don

[35remington]

They've done it already. It's called moly.

The problem with it was that it attracted some moisture from the air, maybe causing problems for guys who didn't clean their rifles. And it would often build up in barrels. Some guys had problems with this. Some didn't and continue to use it.

Moly also caused lower velocities for the same reason, but the downsides were enough that it's not as popular as it was. Hell, five years ago you couldn't say "handloading" or "varmint shooting" without a moly proponent jumping out of the woodwork somewhere.

[Bass Ackward]

I have used lube on the Barnes triple shock with the grease grooves. And yes, it did cut friction and velocity did drop. About 200 fps I believe it was.

The problem from a liability standpoint is that lube constitutes fouling in a bore. And because of it's hydraulic and non compression properties, that it can act as an obstruction at high enough velocities and bulge the barrel or worse. That is why you won't see it offered commercial unless in a dry compound like molly. IMO.

[Bullshop]

It was quite common for the pionears of high velocity to use a lube wad under a bullet. Harvy Donaldson often spoke of it. I agree that if you work a load without lube then introduce it the pressure and velocity may drop. You can though rework the load with lube back up to equal pressure and velocity. I recall Harvy writing about a 220 swift with several 1000 rounds through it all assembled with lube wads and he reported no discernable wear.
When I first started loading my mentor gave me a box of ipco wads when I bought a rebarreld springfield that was stamped 224/244. I had one load with that rifle, a case full of old surp H 4831 / a wad / and a 60gn Hornady. It was used for coyotes and seemed like a death ray at any range. It was a looooong time ago!
BIC/BS
BIC/BS

[Dale53]

During the early days of the Springfield Rifle (1903 model) it was common to use Mobilube on jacketed bullets to minimize fouling (early jacketed bullets were serious offenders of fouling). Several rifles blew up at Camp Perry. A serious investigation showed that the lube migrated to the necks of cartridges (the loaded rounds had their bullets dipped in Mobilube grease just before firing). When it was around the neck of the cartridge it wouldn't allow the neck to expand (grease is non-compressible) and release the bullet. The rifles were damaged quite severely. It became unpopular quickly after the results of that investigation.

You can read all about it in "Hatcher's Notebook".

Dale53

[Ricochet]

There was one other factor in that Mobilube disaster Hatcher reported. The arsenal had found that plating the cupronickel jackets of the bullets with tin prevented the metal fouling of the barrels that the grease also was intended to prevent. What the arsenal didn't then know, having loaded and fired the test rounds over a short period of development, was that the tin on the bullets bonded to the clean surface of the brass case neck, essentially "soldering" the bullet to the brass case. That was no problem when there was clearance around the case neck for powder gas to expand the neck, breaking the bond and releasing the bullet. When the space around the neck was filled with grease, the neck couldn't expand and was pulled along with the bullet, raising pressures drastically. Hatcher wrote of finding a bullet downrange with the case neck still attached around it, swaged down through the rifling. Grease had been used in the same fashion for many years before, and the overpressure problems only appeared when the tinned bullets were used.