Non-FFL sales?

[Tatume]

Hello Folks,

I do not have an FFL, and would like to sell some of my guns. If I sell to someone, can I legally ship the gun to his FFL? I assume his FFL would send me a signed copy of his licence first. I guess another way to phrase the same question is: must I have my local FFL ship the gun to the receiving FFL?

Thanks, Tom

[finishman2000]

you got it... you first get check and ffl then send the gun to that ffl addy only. most want a copy of your drivers li9c to lock into their books and try to help from getting stolen guns.

[hornady]

It is possible to ship a Firearm with out an FFL on your end, however it is safer for you if you use a local FFL on your end, I sold a handgun last year and checked both ways, and found the $25.00 my FFL charged me was well worth the hassle it would have been for me to do it on my own.

[Gtek]

Really depends on where you are and where it is going. They have so many laws they do not know what is correct between one and the other, (States, Cities). FFL is safest route, a lot of GB sellers are up to $40.00 for long and up for handguns, covers most the hassle. Shipping to FFL is legal, just paper trail every move. Remember we are the criminals! Gtek

[shotman]

most ffls now wont take a gun for shipping from a non ffl. I dont anymore. I did the last and gun turned out stolen. I was clear BUT the hassel is not worth it . Long guns are not as big a deal as hand guns . USPS dont like to find a gun. Most will not take one If you dont have a ffl on file with them.
Here is what happens
Guy buys the gun, sends money he dont like the gun and wants a refund. Guy selling dont want to give the money back. So the FFL is in the middle. They think the FFL should "take care of it"

[felix]

Yes, they should take care of it. If a "haircut" is taken, most especially. If not, why have a license to do business? I buy items off the net only when a licensed dealer is involved so I do have recourse. ... felix

[onceabull]

Are some of you actually saying that the receiving FFL for your firearms purchase should make you whole if you don't like what you bought ???? Onceabull

[shotman]

that is what I found so I DONT DO IT
the guy selling will not give money back so I get caught as a dealer and they what me to refund . BS
If you want to sell on the net get a FFL

[shooter93]

I help out at times in Gunmakers Shop and not long ago he had an ATF audit. The agent said they were working on getting to the point where they can audit all FFL holders once a year or 18 months. There's some tricky writing in the shipping rules so I asked her about a non FFL shipping his gun to an FFL after he sold it. Her explaination was....An individual can ship to and recieve to/from an FFL if it's his/her personal gun and it's going for repairs etc. If it was sold and going to a buyer in another state then it is an interstate sale or transfer and must go from an FFL to another FFL as both must log it into their record books. She did say that some FFL holders will accecpt guns from individuals who sold to an individual in their state but the ATF considers that a violation

[lwknight]

ATF should be defunded anyway.

[hornady]

Shipping Legalities
Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL) only. The recipient must have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale).

Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

[nicholst55]

ATF should be defunded anyway.

That's the absolute truth! What other LEA gets to make up the rules as they go, and violate federal law at will?

[Newtire]

I have sent long guns thru the post office and they will ship them with no trouble if it's going to an FFL. I am not an FFL. You go on Gunbroker and they give you the procedure. You have to make sure the person receiving the gun is really an FFL. The post office will not ship a handgun though.

The post office is quicker and cheaper than either UPS or FEDEX too.

[hornady]

I would not swear to it, but I believe the USPS will no longer ship long guns, several years ago I too shipped a shotgun threw the USPS, but I don’t think they will any longer.

The reason I suggested using an FFL on your end, one the firearm creates a paper trail that can be tracked and if the firearm is lost in transit or ends up in wrongful possession it limits your liability.

Also in the research I did on ship on my own, only a limited number of FED-X locations will except a firearm from a non-FFL holder. All the FED-X and UPS drop off points in my area would not except a firearm from a non-FFL even though it would be legal to do

[alamogunr]

I have sent long guns thru the post office and they will ship them with no trouble if it's going to an FFL. I am not an FFL. You go on Gunbroker and they give you the procedure. You have to make sure the person receiving the gun is really an FFL. The post office will not ship a handgun though.

The post office is quicker and cheaper than either UPS or FEDEX too.

The post office will ship a handgun for a FFL. I recently sent a handgun to a FFL for some work and used a local FFL to ship. By local I mean he is in a town about 8 mi from my location. His post office would not reply when he asked what he had to do to ship the handgun. I took a copy of his FFL, a copy of the smith's FFL and the forms I printed off the USPS site to my post office and had it shipped in 15 min. It came back the same way and was much cheaper than either FedEx or UPS.

[waksupi]

USPS does ship long guns. I send several per month.

[hornady]

You are correct, I just checked at their site, with 911 and all the patriot act BS I was not sure. The problem is the people working in the post office don’t know much more about it than the average guy on the street.
My brother recently sent a BB gun back for repair and the lady at the post office acted like he was sending a machine gun.

[Tatume]

You are correct, I just checked at their site, with 911 and all the patriot act BS I was not sure. The problem is the people working in the post office don’t know much more about it than the average guy on the street.
My brother recently sent a BB gun back for repair and the lady at the post office acted like he was sending a machine gun.

As the person who started this thread, I'm going to jump back in and admit that I already know part of the answer. USPS will ship long guns. As you pointed out, the people who work for the USPS are often completely ignorant of their own rules, as is also true of UPS. The way around this (I sometimes ship muzzleloading rifles, which is how I come to know) is to get an account with USPS, print your shipping label at home, and have the carrier pick up the package. Not only is it convenient, it avoids the hassle of dealing with ignorant clerks, and it cost less than taking the package to the P.O.

In my defense, the reason I started the thread is that I don't know about guns that have to be handled by an FFL. I only know about ML rifles.

Thanks, Tom