Another 30 cal plain based question

[bones37]

I recently bought a rcbs 150 cowboy mold plain based(no gc) and was needing some info on powders to push this thing. I want the velocity up as high as I can without leading. I've tried unique, and it works well but I'm not getting the velocity I need to correct the open sights. I am pan lubing as cast(310") with a 60/40 mix of candle wax and petroleum jelly(it works great!) and loading in a winchester 94 30/30. I'm not against getting a gas check design, as I have the notion of ordering a 311041, but I was wanting some real world information on this subject, and to be fair I scoured the archives here before posting. Thanks.

Bones37

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi and welcome to the forum. There is a definite limit to how fast you can push a PB in 30 cal. so considering a GC design is probably a better move if you are going to go faster than 1500-1600 fps. #311041 is a good choice; it is the old 311291 design with the tip of the nose missing and both have good reputations. Unique and the faster powders work ok, but the 30/30 comes into its own much better with a medium powder like 3031. Aside from not risking a double charge with the lighter powders, the 3031 (won't usually lead) takes up more space in the case thus a better loading density. A charge of 25 grains is a good starting point;(I found that 27 grs. worked best for my 3 94's) and you can go as high as 31 grs (Factory spec) for around 21-2200 fps. The recoil is moderate and somewhere between 25 and 31 grs, you will find the accuracy to be what you want/need. In the lube department, if what you are using is working-fine! I have used vaseline mixed with beeswax and it worked well, but vaseline or petroleum jelly has to be watched in warm/hot weather as it likes to go to other places and it can mess up powder. As for Lyman #311041 I would recommend that you buy it from someone like Midway or Graf just in case it has to be returned for defective reasons. Lyman has had some quality control issues recently and some molds are showing up undersize or with mismatched blocks. Trying to deal with Lyman directly seems to yield mixed results. I never have used candle wax, but if the mix that you are using doesn't hold up to higher velocity(ies) then you will be obliged to go to a more substantial lube and there are many good ones around. Good shooting. LLS

[bones37]

Thanks for the info. I had been sizing the bullets in a 309" die with a commerical lube, but was having some leading issues. I realize that my home made lube may not be ideal, I was just trying to lubricate them without sizing to see if my leading issue went away with a larger diameter bullet. I have heard good things about 3031, but haven't tried it yet. As for the gas checked designs, I think I'll order the 311041 and run with it. I must admit, I'm not a gas check fan as most of my casting(for handguns) I used plain based designs with good luck. I also realize that rifles, and their corresponding velocities dictate that a checked design be used. I've learned ALOT on this forum, and I think it is great that people can come together to share information and experiences.

[leadman]

Glen at White Label Lubes sells several different lubes at very reasonable prices, and he is a sponsor here. I use alot of the Carnuba Red.

[Maven]

bones37, I often shoot plain based CB's in my .30-06, but rarely exceed 1,500fps with them. I generally don't size them either; or rather, size them only enough to insure the bases are round and apply lube (Felix Lube). Actually, the accuracy is about the same either way (unsized ones are tumble lubed in Lee Liquid Alox). Btw, the alloy is air cooled WW + 1% Sn. As for the powder, I've had little luck with "slower" powders such as H/IMR 4198 or WC 820 (AA #9), which performed erratically and were dirty to boot. That will most likely be true of IMR 3031 too. What HAS worked is small[er] charges of Hodgdon's Clays (6.0gr. - 7.0gr.) and Alliant's Unique (7.5gr. -8.5gr.). Blue Dot is also good, but I'm not sure how much (or little) to use in the .30-30Win. case, possibly 8.5gr. - 9.5gr. Hope this helps!

[Ben]

bones37 :

What Maven says X 2 ! !

Maven knows what he is talking about. He was a big help to me
when I began playing with plain based bullets in my own .30 cal. rifles.

I have also been shooting a lot of plain based bullets . Here is a group
that I fired with my Ruger # 1 , 30 - 06 ( by the way, the round that
struck slightly high and right is most likely me, the other 4 are in a " ragged
hole " ) :

I don't have a lot of experience with the 30-30 . However, I'd think that if you dropped the powder charge you're seeing in the group below by 2 grs., you'd be close to the same performance I'm getting with my 178 gr. SAECO plain based bullet out of the 06'.

Ben

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_4414e402e4bcd7d9.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1729)