Berthier gurus?

[Stevie]

I own a 07/15 longrifle 3 shot version of the French Berthier. This particular old rifle is not 'N' stamped on the barrel.

Something I've noticed about my Berthier is that the striker-spring is extremely heavy..The rifle requires some effort to open the bolt against the spring(cocks on opening)..and that it's virtually impossible to manually cock the striker.

I took the bolt apart...cleaned and inspected the internals...looked the mainspring over for originality..etc. Bolt works fine...feeds and fires fine. It has a original looking spring that's pretty powerful...all looks perfectly servicable and original.

Just how powerful should a Berthier mainspring be?

Is the spring so potent because of the capped primers some 8mm Lebel ammo is equipped with?

Thanx

[gew98]

Typical frendh rifle of the period...surefire ignition. The Lebel is no different.

[looseprojectile]

I have a rather nice Remington 07-15 and it cocks hard and the spring is near a hundred years old. Was probably made for a young man to operate.
No serial number and no proofs and no "N".
Have a box of Remington ammo, red and green box and have one clip.
Have not shot it.

Life is good

[Stevie]

I have two three-shot clips....I'm told the 5 shot M16 clips will work..with 3 rounds and the rest of the clip hanging out the bottom.

I use Graf's brass and Sierra 175gr soft-point bullets to load a pretty modest velocity 8mm Lebel cartridge

[67bear]

I've got a 07/15 St. Etienne. No import marks, 3 shot. No "N" stamp. The butt plate and barrel bands on mine were chromed at some point. I only have one clip. Mine takes some effort to open too. I just picked up some Sierra 175's To shoot in it. Still need to get some brass though. Would you mind sharing your load? What kind of accuracy/velocity are you getting? I do have an old box of Remington Kleenbore, but don't want to shoot it up.

[Stevie]

The accuracy with the few cartridges I've reloaded in the caliber is very good. Velocity?..no idea...I would guess 2000-2100fps

I've been using the .323 175gr bullets and 40gr of IMR4895....I would start small and work up to the above load...case capacity may vary as does powder lots.

[67bear]

Thanks Stevie. I plan on starting light, just wanted an idea of what others are using.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The accuracy with the few cartridges I've reloaded in the caliber is very good. Velocity?..no idea...I would guess 2000-2100fps

I've been using the .323 175gr bullets and 40gr of IMR4895....I would start small and work up to the above load...case capacity may vary as does powder lots.

I thought that the 8mm Lebel had a much bigger bore. I have a Lee 8mm mould, I was considering using them unsized and paper patched to start with.

Whats the accuracy like with the 323 jacketed bullets?

[Stevie]

I've just loaded a very few cartridges in the caliber...but yes..accuracy seemed very good with standard .323 8mm bullets.

The bits and pieces of reloading info you find indicate .323 or thereabouts bore diameter. I had tried to slug the bore on the Berthier..but had/have no suitable driving dowel to puch a slug through 3 feet of barrel.

What mold do you have?....I have developed some interest in casting small bore bullets, but don't know didly squat about gas checks and the like.

[gew98]

The Lebel & Berthier rifles I had when I formed brass from 348 win and slugged the bores where all .325 - .327" ( favoring .327") , much like the 95 Steyr straight pullers.

[Four Fingers of Death]

the bores where all .325 - .327" ( favoring .327").

327 is a good number in Chevy engines, but a bit big for my standard Lee mould, lol.

[windy]

I've recently acquired a carbine in 3-shot config. that has been "pimped" up to be an African-style sporter, with a custom, nicely checkered stock, double set trigger and two-leaf rear "express" sights. It shot fairly well with 170 Speer .323's and 42.5gr of H4895 (should be about 2150-2200 ft/sec. or so) but it really loves the Hornady 195gr sp's with about 45.5 gr of the H4895--shoots about 3-4" from the bench at 100 yds and both loads regulate the same on the low rear sight blade with the front sight I made for it; had to build one from pieces and JB Weld, since the German-looking ramp had a longitudinal dovetail I couldn't match and the previous owner broke the custom one. Recoil's a bit more vigorous with the 195's, but since the stock was short for me, I put on a slip-on pad that tames it pretty good. I also made some loads with 196gr RWS H-mantles and the same powder; if I shoot something I want to eat I'll use the Hornadys and if it's something I just don't like I can blow it apart with the H's. T'ain't original, and "pretty" is in the eye of the beholder, but it's apt to be my go-to brush gun; that set trigger really improves my offhand shots. Now to find out where the high leaf shoots--just for drill; I don't think I'll be using it for anything much past 150, which should be POA.
mind yer topknots!
windy


"sonny, whar I growed up 'magnum' wuz anuther name fer 'lousy hunter'!"

[Dschuttig]

I've got a 1917 1907-15 St. Etienne 5 shot rifle in near mint cond. It has a spring that I can't cock by hand and the bore slugs at .327.

[frnkeore]

Could someone post a picture of one of these rifles so, I know what is being talked about?

Frank

[Dschuttig]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=260550355


The metal magazine extension on the bottom was designed to convert the 1907-15 "3 shot" to 1916 "5 shot" configuration. Go figure, who wouldn't want a 3 shot clip rifle in battle?

[frnkeore]

Thank you, very much for the link to the pictures. Now I know what your talking about. I've seen them and reconize that they are French and now I know what their name is :) Kinda homely but they look well built.

They must have come out before the 40 round AK's :)

Frank

[Four Fingers of Death]

They much have come out before the 40 round AK's :) Frank

Yep, a few years earlier!

This is a St Eitnne with 5 shot conversion;

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/BerthierM16Rifle.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/BerthierM16Rifle2.jpg

[KCSO]

I loaded a lot of 8MM Lebel for my Lebel's and Dad's Berthier and usually sized my bullets at 324 with good results. I was shooting 12.5 of Red Dot and the Lee 204 bullet made for the M95 and sized down to 324. Every one of there bustards I have handled had a spring stout enough to put on a Mack truck. I never shot the Brethier much as there were full military and I couldn't get use to the goofy French sights. My Lebel's were sporters and had Lyman sights.

[jonk]

Mine isn't that hard to operate. Is it as smooth as a 1903? No. But it isn't a bear either.

Mine slugs at .325. I had a .327" sizing die made up, push through affair. I size in my .332 lube-sizer die and then run through the push through.

The only thing is the neck size. I ordered an extra decapping rod from Lee for their 8X56 R set and chucked it in the drill with some sandpaper to remove a few thousandths of an inch, then popped that in the Lebel die. Quite a bit of rod protrudes from the top, but otherwise it works fine. I also had to open up the neck of the Lebel die a tad with some emery paper. What I did was cut a slit in a length of brass rod, then stick the emery paper in that and spin in the die neck. All done in a few minutes, then some JB bore paste on a cloth to polish things up, clean and use.

While the spring is undoubtedly part of the issue, the various surfaces of the bolt and sear probably are a bit rough too. I'd look at lightly polishing them all and lubricating with a good synthetic grease- just a dab here and there.

[Dschuttig]

Kinda homley?

I always thought that mine loooks pregnant. Some day it's going to give birth to baby berthiers and I'll make a fortune selling them.....:p




Thank you, very much for the link to the pictures. Now I know what your talking about. I've seen them and reconize that they are French and now I know what their name is :) Kinda homely but they look well built.

They must have come out before the 40 round AK's :)

Frank