Mosin Experts Needed

[Alby]

Well my wife bought me a very nice Fin Mosin M39 B rifle and I have finally cleaned it up and want to take it out, but questions first. I have read that the Fin Mosins with the B barrel have a slightly smaller dia than other Mosins. Is this true? I have not slugged the barrel yet. She also purchased a couple of cans of ammo for the 7.62x54r. Any chance this ammo will damage the barrel?
Your help would be appreciated!

Alby

[daengmei]

Your rifle may have a D stamp. But the ammo is ok.


What is the D stamping seen on Finnish barrels?

This simply means the rifle is chambered to handle the Soviet-Finnish D round, which was the standard round of the WW2 era.

If the rifle is not D stamped, is the rifle safe to fire using standard surplus ammo?

With M39 and WW2 M91 production the D chambering was standard, so many of these rifles will not have the D marking. That is due to the fact it was the standard so there was no need to mark such rifles. The only rifles that might cause a worry for lack of the D stamping would be the M91-24 and the M28-30 rifles. To be safe it is always a good idea to have the rifle checked by a gunsmith if there are any questions. Better to be safe than sorry.


This from http://mosinnagant.net/finland/finnfaq.asp, which has a lot of info for all Mosin Nagant and here another site http://7.62x54r.net/. For your rifle see http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM39.htm.

Congratulations, you have what should be a very nice shooting rifle. Be careful when you take it apart, there may be shims that could fall loose, these were placed to maximize accuracy when needed. Best is to keep the stock level and upright as if being held to fire and lift the barrel assembly out while looking for those shims. Small imprints might reveal where one should be, as it might stick to the bottom of the barrel/action as you lift it. It is even possible to find shims on the bottom of the stock between the magazine and stock. Using a large flat area or a white colored work area is best till your certain what is inside your rifle.

One more thing...you got a keeper. Wife I mean!

[Alby]

Thank you, it does have th "D" stamped directly below the B so I appears all is good. The barrel is dated 1942 and appears to be in excellent condition. After what seamed like forever the barrel is bright and I can see no pit marks in it. We will see how she shoots tomorrow. :-)

After 30+ years she can still surprise me sometimes. She even had it delivered to my neighbors house so that I would not find out about it.

[rhbrink]

Nobody yet mentioned it but the ammo that you have is more than likely "corrosive". So after you shoot some you need to clean very throughly the same day that you shoot and then flush with hot water to get rid of the corrosive priming left in your barrel. If left over night your barrel won't look so good the next day. I treat all European ammo like it is corrosive at least until I know for sure that it is not. It's perfectly safe to shoot just have to take some extra cleaning steps. After flushing with hotwater you must oil immediately of course.

Good luck and enjoy!

Richard

[Multigunner]

I'm no expert on the MN rifle but I do remember they manufactured barrels with progressively tighter bores from one model to the next, some are .310 and there may be some even tighter.
Finnland once produced a .309 dia matchgrade bullet intended for use in both 7.62 Russian and 7.62/.308 rifles, or at least used successfully in bores of from .310 to .3085.

Some 7.62X54R steel core bullets I salvaged and used for .303 loads miked at .3125. Bullet size of these rounds is all over the map, but usually consistent within lots.

[Alby]

I agree that the berdan primed bullets are most likely corrisive and I have some windex with ammonia that I will be taking to the range with me. Plan on cleaning the barrel several times while I am there. I appreciate all the suggestions!

[Link23]

the D means that the chamber was chamberd for the finnish D166 round, its just slightly longer you will have no problem firing any mil surp out of it, my 91/59, my M39, and my D barrel M91 both shoot mil surp (Bulgarian) with AMAZING accuracy, so shoot away and have fun those are ACCURATE rifles, ive taken a deer with mine at 500+ yards with normal irons

Link23

[MtGun44]

Use 3-4 patches wet with "Windex with vinegar" - yes, I am certain it comes that way. Then
two or three patches of Hoppe's #9. Do this right after shooting at the range while the
barrel is still warm. You will never get any corrosion and it will only take about 2 minutes.
Also wipe the front face of the bolt with windex and then Hoppes - primers leak and the
bolt face will corrode, too. People get way too carried away with cleaning up after
corrosive ammo, you cannot forget, but it is really not much of a big deal.

Bill

[Alby]

Well after letting my granddaughter shoot for awhile today I brought out my new toy. I have to admit that taking the first shot I did not know if it was going to go well or not. Everything went well and for a 70+ year old gun I must say it shoots better than I can! This is the result at 50 yards, first shot was low center and I admit it I closed my eyes.

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq189/albsch/Mosinfirst6.jpg

[daengmei]

Now you can see why these are so popular. Just think what handloading can do when surplus does so well.

[glenkans]

Guys , I'm considering getting a Mosin Nagant and have several questions. I'm wondering if you guys reload for yours and if components like brass are available. I don't mind taking the crimp out of mil. brass. Are large rifle primers for the Nagant the right size for mil. brass?What would the approx. ballistics of a 150 gr. bullet at decent velocities be?Lastly is it worth the trouble of reloading and are dies available from makers like Lee?Sorry for the 50 questions but I KNOW NOTHING. Thanks, Glen PS more questions ,, When you buy one of these, and they have the barrel full of cosmolene,how can you tell what shape the bore is in?

[rhbrink]

Reload? Absolutely!
NO reload mil brass Berdan primed, Grafs has brass made for Boxer primers as well as someone in the buy and sell section.
150 grain condom bullet equal to .308 vel
Several sets of dies available including Lee
Barrel full of cosmolene? If you can see rifling at the end of the barrel thats a good thing.
Bad thing is it will be at least a .310 groove and probably a lot larger maybe up to .316.
Trigger may need a overhaul but can be fixed.
All in all a tremendous value for the money spent and they can be very accurate, and great for boolits.

Richard
Missourians for Mosins

[NuJudge]

Guys , I'm considering getting a Mosin Nagant and have several questions. I'm wondering if you guys reload for yours and if components like brass are available. I don't mind taking the crimp out of mil. brass. Are large rifle primers for the Nagant the right size for mil. brass?What would the approx. ballistics of a 150 gr. bullet at decent velocities be?Lastly is it worth the trouble of reloading and are dies available from makers like Lee?Sorry for the 50 questions but I KNOW NOTHING. Thanks, Glen PS more questions ,, When you buy one of these, and they have the barrel full of cosmolene,how can you tell what shape the bore is in?

Components are available. Graf's (link above) has Serbian-made brass, made by PPU. It takes Boxer .210" Large Rifle primers. The Serbians also make the brass used by Hornady. The Czechs (S&B) make 7.62x54R brass and ammo. The Finns (Lapua) and Swedes (Norma) also make it. Norma is the most expensive, but I can't tell any difference on paper from the cheapest (PPU).

Most Surplus takes .254" Berdan primers, although Albanian and early Bulgarian take .217" Berdan primers. Until you have some experience with the caliber and reloading, leave this alone.

We speak 'Cast Bullets' here. Mosin-Nagant barrels vary a lot in groove diameter. The Finn ones such as are spoken of in this thread do not, running about .309" for early ones and .310" for later ones. The Russian and other barrels vary a lot, the biggest I've seen being .314", but some report as large as .316". The importance of this is that if you buy a mold producing .312" bullets, but your barrel is .316" you will get no accuracy and terrible Leading.

If you are going to buy a Mosin, pick one with a nice looking barrel and shoot it some with Jacketed bullets, which don't care (much) about bullet fit. The way to figure out prior to purchase whether it has a good barrel is to take a cleaning rod and patches with you. If they won't allow you to examine the bore first, go somewhere else.

Almost all the Surplus out there is Corrosively primed, which requires cleaning with water-based cleaners to remove the salts, followed by oiling. Almost none of the Surplus is non-corrosive or Boxer primed. The best shooting of the Surplus ammo for me has been Albanian, but I have not seen it for awhile. Polish and Yugo shoot well for me too.

Have a gunsmith see what your groove diameter is. When you are ready to load cast bullets, you need a bullet with a diameter .001" or .002" larger than the groove diameter. If you have a huge groove diameter, it is possible that a cartridge loaded with a bullet of that diameter will not fit in your chamber. If that is the case you are stuck with jacketed bullets.

I have found Lee dies to work.

The ballistics of a 150 gr jacketed bullet in this caliber are similar to those of a .30-'06. It largely depends on the powder used and the length of your barrel. I tend to use 180 gr Jacketed bullets in this caliber just because I've had good results there.

[glenkans]

Guys, do you think it would be safe to switch a 150 gr. bullet from a man. like Hornady for a 147 or 149 gr. fmj in military cases for hunting? I think after breaking laquer seal , I could use a inertia puller and just re-use powder charge. I would like to use a Mosin Nagant for deer hunting although I have more modern rifles I could use. Thanks guys,Glen

[waksupi]

Guys, do you think it would be safe to switch a 150 gr. bullet from a man. like Hornady for a 147 or 149 gr. fmj in military cases for hunting? I think after breaking laquer seal , I could use a inertia puller and just re-use powder charge. I would like to use a Mosin Nagant for deer hunting although I have more modern rifles I could use. Thanks guys,Glen

FMJ is lousy for hunting anything bigger than a coyote, and they are going to run a long way before they tip over. Do NOT use them on deer, you will just wound and loose them.

[tomme boy]

You do not need to use the Windex method. It is an old wives tale. All you need is Water. The water will take care of any corrosive salts from shooting surplus ammo. Run a brush a couple of times before you leave the range. Now when you get home, 3-4 damp patches with water then let sit for a couple of minutes. Now clean as normal with Hoppes. A couple of light oiled patches. Depending on how much you shot, I still clean it again the next day with Hoppes. It seems that stuff creeps out overnight.

[Hip's Ax]

I was given this link over 10 years ago and I've always cleaned after shooting corrosive ammo this way. Little extra effort and excellent results.

http://www.empirearms.com/clean.htm

[Alby]

From what I read the windex is used just for the ammonia content. I never really thought of using water and ammonia add a liitle blue dye and you most likely have windex anyway. I must say I am really impressed with this thing it's accurate and not a real bad recoil. I just wish my eyes were 20 or so years younger so I could see what this will do at 100 and 200 yards. I found some Privi ammo and will be saving the brass for reloading just to see how good at 50 I can get. I appreciate all the help and suggestions!

[Piedmont]

Guys, do you think it would be safe to switch a 150 gr. bullet from a man. like Hornady for a 147 or 149 gr. fmj in military cases for hunting? I think after breaking laquer seal , I could use a inertia puller and just re-use powder charge. I would like to use a Mosin Nagant for deer hunting although I have more modern rifles I could use. Thanks guys,Glen Waksupi misunderstood your post. Yes, you can break the laquer seal and pull the bullets, though a press-mounted die puller might work better, and then load your softpoint.

There are lots of people that would disagree with Waksupi that FMJs won't work on deer, to include an old friend of mine who was showing me his Polish M44 many years ago. He had been using ball ammo on deer in his garden. He wasn't gun savvy but was a very bright guy. I laughed after finding out what he was doing and had to explain to him FMJ didn't expand. He was amazed because it was a good deer stopper. Then I explained to him why it "worked fine" on the whitetail deer he was shooting. Many game departments will frown on using FMJs on deer but there is much positive mention of it on medium to large game in the sporting literature in the first two decades of the twentieth century (and I am referring to after the switch to spire points). It works on big game for the same reasons in works on men, velocity and bullet instability on target, to read--tumbling.

[rhbrink]

Alby when you get yourself some reloadable brass clean the copper and junk out of the barrel and try some "Boolits". It's been my experience that they will shoot cast just as good if not better, most of the time a lot better that the imported surplus ammo. The trick here is get a boolit to fit the throat and bore and groove of your rifle. Not always easy to come up with the right combination but worth the effort.

Richard