Putt-Putting the .454 Casull

[Thor's Daddy]

Considering that this is my first post here, I figured I might as well stir it up a bit...

I shoot at an indoor range (club) and would like to begin training on my .454 SRH. I chose the indoor range because I can shoot year-round, in any weather, at any time, and it is in a very convenient location (plus it is the ONLY range with 60 minutes of my house).

This particular range has a power factor limit of 274, which means even if I wanted to run full-house loads out of my gun there, I can't. So, what's a boy to do?

I know there is a lot of controversy about downloading such a thoroughbred cartridge, but I'd like to do it and do it as well as can be done.

I am open to your guidance on loads, bullets, primers, brass, the works.

Flame on.

[stubshaft]

Just take your pick of 45LC mid-range loads and go to town. For the LC I used 7.5gr Unique behind a 250gr boolit for years.

[missionary5155]

Good morning & Welcome to the place !
Hard to beat Unique & the 255 grainer in the Colt. I would add if you have any Colt brass to use that for these mild loads. 6-8 grains of Unique will power that bullet all you need indoors. Mike in Peru

[subsonic]

I'm sure you've read all of the posts about possible troubles when downloading with the small primer cases. If you cut off .460 brass, you will end up with a full .454 length case with a large primer pocket. Try something like 16gr of 2400, or better yet AA9, and a 250gr or so boolit like the Lee 452-255RF cast of WDWW. Chrono them to see if they are under the power factor. Should be close and should shoot well.

You might try a small pistol NON-MAGNUM primer also in the .454 brass, or just use .45LC brass and clean the chambers often.

[44man]

Indoors, I would just use .45 colt brass and loads.

[45r]

was shooting my 454 couple days ago and it shot the rcbs 270saa boolits into 1 3/4 inchs at 45 yards using 15.5 grains hs-6 with rem 7 1/2 primers and about the same with 10.5 grains unique.the rcbs 250 round nose shoots real well also with 11.1 grains trail boss and is very easy to handle.the 454 shoots ragged hole with 296 or vit-110using my 315gc boolits and plenty good enough with hs-6 for midloads.don't know why some have problems finding accurate midloads in 454.mine will shoot under 2 inchs all day long at 45 yards with my mtn mold 315gc boolits using 296,V-110,hs-6,unique,power pistol,universal clays,2400,imr 4227,and titegroup.just use what the manuals say and find the sweet spot.if you use some hs-6 you should be able to find a good midload and unique should work also.I never use 45 colt brass in my casull,probably will work but isn't needed.best accuracy comes with the front band in the throat or as close as possible.

[-06]

While on 454s my question is on the other side of the spectrum. Want to load some for my son(headed to Alaska) for his side arm while hunting. What do you recommend? Also loads for a 500 S&W? I can follow books but would like to know what your preferences are for the hand cannons, thanks. I carry a 357 here in NC but they are going where the game is not only bigger but very dangerous. Don't want my lads getting chewed on--lol.

[jwp475]

I would choose the Cast Performance 360 grain WLFN if you do not cast. I would load them to 1400 FPS with H-110/296 and never look back. I have seen that bullet at 1400 FPS just hammer Bison and there is no danger of a heavy powder compression causeing a bullet to jump crimp and tie-up the revolver

[The_Vigilante]

Just get him a Marlin Guide Gun 45-70.... won't have problems with any game on the North American Continent!!!

[bobthenailer]

PM sent

[44man]

Fellas, the man is shooting indoors with a power limit. Close range.
Help him for what he needs.

[44MAG#1]

06 posted:

"While on 454s my question is on the other side of the spectrum. Want to load some for my son(headed to Alaska) for his side arm while hunting. What do you recommend? Also loads for a 500 S&W? I can follow books but would like to know what your preferences are for the hand cannons, thanks. I carry a 357 here in NC but they are going where the game is not only bigger but very dangerous. Don't want my lads getting chewed on--lol. "

2 distinct questions.
2 distinct answers
This is not a reply to "44 man" as I am through with that. Just to show that there have been 2 different questions by 2 different posters which deserves 2 different answers.
That is all.

[mooman76]

Second question really should have been started on a new thread.

Like others have said load for the 45 colt down enough to get you power limit. I shoot 44mag all the time but I don't usually use full house loads for just punching paper. Mine are more like hot 44 special loads. They still have some umph but also feel comfortable to shoot.

[dougader]

A 274 PF puts you about 1074 fps with a 255 grain swc. Definitely 45 Colt flavor. I like a 255 in 45 Colt cases with about 12-13 grains of Blue Dot for around 1050 fps.

[44MAG#1]

moonman76:

You know you are right. But, haven't you and someone, maybe at work, been discussing guns etc . and someone that is interested and maybe learning about them walk up and slide in on the conversation, listen for a few, and then maybe ask a question about a gun and load etc. , something that is somewhat different than the subject at hand? Could be he valued your input and had that question on his mind and thought that the time was right to as it? Would you shut him down and send him on his way simply because he wasn't staying on your intended subject.
Surely, I hope not. I would liike to think most on here are kinder than that.

[44man]

moonman76:

You know you are right. But, haven't you and someone, maybe at work, been discussing guns etc . and someone that is interested and maybe learning about them walk up and slide in on the conversation, listen for a few, and then maybe ask a question about a gun and load etc. , something that is somewhat different than the subject at hand? Could be he valued your input and had that question on his mind and thought that the time was right to as it? Would you shut him down and send him on his way simply because he wasn't staying on your intended subject.
Surely, I hope not. I would liike to think most on here are kinder than that.
I was not ignoring you or your question, it was a sound question.
I just wanted to address the first one. The man has a problem with what the range allows, then all kinds of heavier loads started to crop up.
Sure all kinds of things can be done with the .454 but it sure is easier to use the .45 in it for his needs.
I do not know the best loads for the .454 or the .500 S&W as I have neither but others here can help you.

[mooman76]

Posting is somewhat different that talking socially among friends and aquaintences. The reason I brought it up is because sometimes someone asks a question and someone else throws in another question and next thing you know the original question is lost an no longer being addressed. I'm not trying to make a big deal about it as I have probably done the same not meaning to.

[Thor's Daddy]

Wow, I must say that I'm a bit surprised at the number of responses I've gotten to this! After reading many of the discussions pertaining to loading the .454, one would think that downloading it would be such a sin that no one would even dare do such a thing! (grin)

Thank you all for your guidance and advice. This certainly gives me a good direction to head in. Now, if I could head off in a tangent of my own for a minute...


...Sure all kinds of things can be done with the .454 but it sure is easier to use the .45 in it for his needs...

44man, Why would .45 brass be easier to use? Wouldn't the extra jump from the shorter .45C case cause a decrease in accuracy?

Also, I've been considering the use of cut-down 460 brass for all my .454 needs (simpler for me that enlarging primer pockets). Do you think this would be better over either the .454 or .45C brass for these lower-power loads? Or am I just splitting hairs?

[44MAG#1]

Speer number 14 manual has some reduced loads for the 454 using the RCBS 270 SAA bullet.
These loads are with powders such as Unique, titegroup, power pistol and several others. Using starting loads or maybe slightly less (check for usability before loading a quantity) should answer your needs.
If you don't have the book maybe you should get one.
Working up a mild load is no problem for anyone with a little common knowledge with the powders that are "suitable" for that venture. W296/H110, 2400, AA9, and 4227 are not the ones.
Just experiment. That is what most of us do.

[44man]

Wow, I must say that I'm a bit surprised at the number of responses I've gotten to this! After reading many of the discussions pertaining to loading the .454, one would think that downloading it would be such a sin that no one would even dare do such a thing! (grin)

Thank you all for your guidance and advice. This certainly gives me a good direction to head in. Now, if I could head off in a tangent of my own for a minute...



44man, Why would .45 brass be easier to use? Wouldn't the extra jump from the shorter .45C case cause a decrease in accuracy?

Also, I've been considering the use of cut-down 460 brass for all my .454 needs (simpler for me that enlarging primer pockets). Do you think this would be better over either the .454 or .45C brass for these lower-power loads? Or am I just splitting hairs?
Yes, you might have a little less accuracy with the .45 Colt brass but does it matter indoors? I don't think you will see it at close range.
The SR primer is OK with the faster powders. We only seen a problem with reduced loads of 296 and H110, starting loads would be a better choice of words. That is where the LP mag worked better. I don't see much problem with other powders so if you need light loads you can load lighter ones. Granted that it is harder to get accuracy with cases too large if downloading so the .45 brass will not be any worse.
Your worst problem with accuracy and light loads will still be the twist rate of the .454. It is, after all, a long range hunting caliber.

[shotman]

well you did get a lesson here
Its called HY JACKED
454 will down load and work fine load same as 45 colt primer size dont matter

[subsonic]

Back to the subject at hand. The keith .45 colt load, depending on what brass and formula of 2400 you're talking about, was about 18 gr behind a 454424 260gr. This load should clock about 1150 fps from a 7.5" bbl. That would be a power factor of 299.

Dropping weight or velocity a little will get you where you want to be @ 276. The extra capacity of a .454 length case will also reduce velocity.

[45r]

shot my 454 with 11.0 grains trail boss under the rcbs 250rnfp with rem 7 1/2 primers,col set at 1.755 to get front band tight to throat.crimped in middle of top lubed groove,groups at 45 yards went around and inch.this load isn't a book load but shoots as good as most and doesn't kick much at all.sometimes the first few shots are a ragged hole.trail boss can shoot pretty good and gives low velocity.you can shoot 8,9 or 10 grains and it shoots good also.I use 11 because it shoots the most accurate and it's not to high pressre,the primers aren't flat at all and the brass falls out easy.if you want low power,low velocity light kicking loads,trail boss works very well sometimes.for what the OP wants it would probably work,I don't think the velocity is too high.

[rbertalotto]

Interesting thread........

I have a Freedom Arms 454 Casull and I shoot 45LC out of it all the time. Usually VERY mild loads of Greed-Dot under 250g cast.

But I hear folks and the reps at FA caution against using 45LC in the 454 cylinder as the shorter case can leave a ring infront of the brass, making the longer 454 brass harder to load and may even up the pressure a bit with the cylinder constricting the brass more.

Soooooooo. How about loading the bullet .10" deeper into 454 brass to appoximate the OAL of 45LC and thereby having the same cartridge volume as 45LC but the "brass" length of 454?

As far as question #2.......I would not want to trust the life of someone to cast bullets of my making unless I was 120% sure of their performance on a dangerous animal. Are they too hard and won't expand and pass right through? Are they to soft and breakup easily on a rib or other bone.
I would load Barnes or some other known performance boolit in such a situation. ( I won't even get into the subject of handguns as defense against Grizzly........[smilie=b: )

[Whitworth]

Just get him a Marlin Guide Gun 45-70.... won't have problems with any game on the North American Continent!!!

What fun would that be?? :bigsmyl2:

[Lloyd Smale]

The problem wth the 454 that has guys using larger primes is lighting off slow burning ball powders like 110/296 and aa9 and even that isnt an issue in the testing ive done if you dont load down to a pressure that the powder isnt designed for. But downloading to plinking levels inst a problem because for the most part you using powders that are easy to light off. A small rifle primer in the 454 surely has no problem lighting bullseye or unique. Id stick to 454 brass and load it with 9 grains of unique or another powder in that burning range and a 255 to start with. I think youll find it works just fine.

[wellfedirishman]

I have to agree with 45r below, Trailboss is the way to go if you want safe, clean, gentle low velocity loads.

I use it by the boatload in 45LC, 454 Casull, and even 500 S&W when I want light loads.

My preferred 'light 45' load is 7-8 grains of Trailboss with a 250 grain approx cast bullet.



shot my 454 with 11.0 grains trail boss under the rcbs 250rnfp with rem 7 1/2 primers,col set at 1.755 to get front band tight to throat.crimped in middle of top lubed groove,groups at 45 yards went around and inch.this load isn't a book load but shoots as good as most and doesn't kick much at all.sometimes the first few shots are a ragged hole.trail boss can shoot pretty good and gives low velocity.you can shoot 8,9 or 10 grains and it shoots good also.I use 11 because it shoots the most accurate and it's not to high pressre,the primers aren't flat at all and the brass falls out easy.if you want low power,low velocity light kicking loads,trail boss works very well sometimes.for what the OP wants it would probably work,I don't think the velocity is too high.