Review of 22LR to 224 Kaine Dies by DanR

[newcastter]

i have had this happen to me in testing.. this is because the 22 mag cases and 17 hmr's are just slightly thicker than 22LR cases. so when using the de-rimming die that comes with the set, the thicker cases have to stretch much more than normal.

i was able to do it successfully by heating up the 22 mag cases and 17 hmr's to RED hot with a blow torch for several seconds.. then allowed them to air cool. but many of them did pop the tops.

xfoxofshogo maybe able to do it easily with his set because his blued de-rimming bottom punch has warn more.. making it possible for the thicker cases not stretch so far. the combination of die cavity size and punch size limits how thick of a cases you can put though de-rimming.. enlarge the die cavity or reduce the thickness of the bottom punch would increase the total thickness of the cases it can handle.

great job converting the lee sizing die, i say if it works, it works.. that is all that matters. i have always supported people using their own idea's to achieve a goal.. and it looks as though you have done just that.. GREAT JOB.

if you ever need any help, please feel free to contact me anytime.

thank you,
Dan Rickard

Totally agree Dan, this die set functions flawlessly for the intended purpose.
I just wanted to open up all of the opportunities that these Kaine dies are capable of doing (without over stressing the dies or the punches or my press for that matter), Keep in mind I am doing all of this on a LEE challenger press.
My next step is to core bond these bullets then see how well they hold together.

[danr]

Totally agree Dan, this die set functions flawlessly for the intended purpose.
I just wanted to open open up all the opportunities that these Kaine dies are capable of doing (without over sressing the dies or the punches), Keep in mind I am doing all of this on a LEE challenger press.
My next step is to core bond these bullets then see how well they hold together.

oh you'll have fun with core bonding. i did some tests where i used electronics solder and filled them into a cleaned cup, allowing the lead solder to bond to the inside of the case like you would with pipe soldering. then swaged it. made a really good bullet. After shooting though a couple of 2x4's they where still in one piece.

there's allot that you can do with them.. enjoy, and let us all know how it comes out for you.

thanks,
dan

[xfoxofshogo]

ok i just got my new rcbs its a 1gen i found this press rocks i bet it will swage rocks but im not going to tri

ok as a lee c press will work i made a lot of built s with it be for it broke it tiring to do 9mm it did fine but 9mm just to much for it

i just got done working with a rc press i just got will do a lot more

i say if you see a rcbs RC press for 50 buck buy it and if you do not need it post it for sell the sell post ever one needs one for swaging

[Utah Shooter]

So you finally found one?

[xfoxofshogo]

ya i did i found it on gun brokers lol its look realy bad in the pic but it clean up realy nice it was more drity then rusty and the rust was not bad that it did have on it

[newcastter]

Can we make this a sticky?

[xfoxofshogo]

lol just add to your favorites win on the page it shod open up here every time

i got to fine the first thread lol >< and post a link here if you have it post it pleas and thanks

[xfoxofshogo]

hay we are sticky weee

[xfoxofshogo]

ok i been useing the point unforming punch and did some boat talles^^
i made some good looking builts to day
i hope it get nice out so i can go test some
i have been whating for this punch be for doing more testing and had to what for dear hunting to stop for i pist off a lot of hunters one day going to shoot with my dad lol all most took out 2 guys hiding off the end of are range lol thay shod not of been ther in the first place but thay did not know they track so far off ther land lol ya right lol
and what hapen to haveing ornge on lol
but i think it will be safe now to go back to testing <<

[Utah Shooter]

What? A sticky? Dan, you have truly out done yourself.

[xfoxofshogo]

um utah im not dan lol

[MIBULLETS]

I think he meant that the thread itself got a sticky.

[newcastter]

Yes this thread is about Kaine Dies made by Danr.

[danr]

RCBS RC press for sale in the swap and shop section of anyone wants it.

[partsguy22]

danr check you email please

[xfoxofshogo]

ok so i been playing alot with my die set so much that i have to order some stuff for some strang stuff im mesing with and i can tell you no outher die set will do what im doing hehehe
one of the things im playing with is puting jackits in jackits to make a thick jackit i call them trijackets not sher what thay will do yet

but if you never hear form me ever agen do not do this lol

i have some i just did 2 jackits and some with 3 a few with 4 on but 4 get nuts for i cant get lead in them and i hope to test them all monday and see what thay doo my guss is thay will not xepand at all and just punch thrue wet phone books and water jugs and yes some are hp o and a note doing this make them longer and or light if you cut them the same i have some i cut them down after seating them and some i did not if this works i will post pic of how i did it if its not a good thing i do not whant to post how

and on march the 17 im going to have some buddy shoot some and i will get them to right down what thay think of them on how they shoot
they all shoot bolt guns that cost more then my house i call them nuts i can shoot just as good with my ar they do not bleave me so we all going to the range ^^ i will show them hahahaha i will see if i can come up with a vid cam

sorry if my spelling is off this is just a fast post be for i get some sleep its 2 am lol

[xfoxofshogo]

ok it looks like its going to be really cold on monday so im going to put off till it gets nice out

[garym1a2]

Why not just get some solid copper wire, cut to length and try that.

ok so i been playing alot with my die set so much that i have to order some stuff for some strang stuff im mesing with and i can tell you no outher die set will do what im doing hehehe
one of the things im playing with is puting jackits in jackits to make a thick jackit i call them trijackets not sher what thay will do yet

but if you never hear form me ever agen do not do this lol

i have some i just did 2 jackits and some with 3 a few with 4 on but 4 get nuts for i cant get lead in them and i hope to test them all monday and see what thay doo my guss is thay will not xepand at all and just punch thrue wet phone books and water jugs and yes some are hp o and a note doing this make them longer and or light if you cut them the same i have some i cut them down after seating them and some i did not if this works i will post pic of how i did it if its not a good thing i do not whant to post how

and on march the 17 im going to have some buddy shoot some and i will get them to right down what thay think of them on how they shoot
they all shoot bolt guns that cost more then my house i call them nuts i can shoot just as good with my ar they do not bleave me so we all going to the range ^^ i will show them hahahaha i will see if i can come up with a vid cam

sorry if my spelling is off this is just a fast post be for i get some sleep its 2 am lol

[MightyThor]

Not to hijack this thread, but since you are using dan's dies I guess I will add it here. A while ago, on another site there were a few of us that were making multiple part bullets using a formed 22 cal bullet inside another jacket with a little lead at the bottom ending up with a 243 bullet that was sort of like a partition bullet in that you had a bottom part with lead that rested against and pushed on the brass bottom of the 22 cal bullet. They shot fairly well and had good result with small deer etc. Quit doing it cause it was labor intensive and the deer didn't seem to know the difference between being shot with a simple core as opposed to the partition bullet. Dead was dead.

[xfoxofshogo]

thats cool Thor i did not think a bout doing that

but i still have not test them yet its been raining or really cold ever time i was going to go what i was tiring to do with them was make some thing to punch threw thick steel at a cheep cost and still be with in the laws or at less penetrate a plate of armor i have with a all most stander round i know 7.62x54r steel core ammo will go threw this plate its just some thing i mess with for fun

but on that i know they will not frag like the single jacket do theirs nothing left of my single jacket rounds after going threw wet phone book but im using soft lead and core lead not ww i did some really hard ww lead and some zinc its just hard to sawge on the press i was using at the time now with my new one i can tri this a gen if

i do not have much to do at home right now so i mess with this stuff and watch my 2 yr old make a mess lol

o ps if you get a chance to shoot a sp2022 sig do it and tell me what you think of it i think its a nice gun and it built better then a glock or at less i think so

[xfoxofshogo]

Why not just get some solid copper wire, cut to length and try that.

i would but i have yet to fine some copper wire chep and buy the ft to tri this with

on that note if you happen to see some or have some i like to get a piece of it to play with ^^

[coltac]

I've got a set of Kaines dies for the 22lr - .224 bullets im wanting sell. Asking 225 bucks, PM me if you want em.

[DukeInFlorida]

Why are you wanting to sell them????

The sure bet is the MONEY BACK GUARANTEE if you're not happy.

I'd be curious to know why you are parting with them so fast.


I've got a set of Kaines dies for the 22lr - .224 bullets im wanting sell. Asking 225 bucks, PM me if you want em.

[newcastter]

I was disappointed to hear Dan is now asking $600 a set.

[coltac]

I just don't need em... Im making my own dies that make a bullet that I prefer. Kaines dies work well, just don't need em. Figured offering of guys a set I his dies at a good price would be appreciated. I've only made about 100 bullets with them so they are still like new. If anyone wants the die set, payPal is edgedies@gmail.com. PM or call 2064840397

[danr]

I've got a set of Kaines dies for the 22lr - .224 bullets im wanting sell. Asking 225 bucks, PM me if you want em.

hay coltac, if you dont want them, i can forward a customer over to you for them, or you can ship them back to me, and i'll refund your $300 for them.

when i said money back guarantee, i meant it. no hard feelings here.. i'll resell them no problem.

Thanks,
Dan

[coltac]

Its up to you, ill sell em for 225 or take your 300 refund if youd like to do that. I like your dies, they are well made, and work perfect. I just am not going to be using them any more. Ive got 2 or 3 sets of 22 dies now, and was hoping to get them to one of the members here that would like a set.

PS, THEY WILL NOT COME WITH THE LUBE! ITS MINE~!

[danr]

Its up to you, ill sell em for 225 or take your 300 refund if youd like to do that. I like your dies, they are well made, and work perfect. I just am not going to be using them any more. Ive got 2 or 3 sets of 22 dies now, and was hoping to get them to one of the members here that would like a set.

PS, THEY WILL NOT COME WITH THE LUBE! ITS MINE~!

if you want more lube i can get you more.. :)

[coltac]

how much per little carton of lube dan? if you want sue me for patent infringement, id like to ship it with my die sets....

PS DANS DIE SET SOLD TO A GENTLEMAN IN CA, ITS NO LONGER FOR SALE.

[danr]

how much per little carton of lube dan? if you want sue me for patent infringement, id like to ship it with my die sets....

PS DANS DIE SET SOLD TO A GENTLEMAN IN CA, ITS NO LONGER FOR SALE.

sue for patent infringement, heck no bro.. i'm all about Open Source here. the more people we get making die sets, the better the market. i'm proud to be an influence.

i'll pm you with details for the lube.

:)
Dan

[xfoxofshogo]

ok i been mesing with bonding cores and have not seen a change in how they shoot i did fine that they do not frag as much but thats it

i was pushing them hard 63g at 3100fps and that was kind on the hot side flat primers
if i swich powder i mabe can get them faster but we use what i hade on hand some h335 some varget my buddy hade and some h414

some 50g up to 3120 but you need to rember 50g are shot in a slower twist rate gun then the 63g and the 50g we did not push all that hard for the gun was a old bolt that hade slop in it

if i shot 50g in my 1-8 they not be stable and mabe never make it on the paper

and y at the range i wish i hade taken a cam wach a guy blow a AR15 to pices and he hade to remove a pice out of his arm he hade load his rounds with red dot tring to save mony and pay the price for it we got the bullet puller and pulled a few and out of 10 we found 2 that hade to much in them one hade what we think was a tripple load in it and found 3 with no powder in them at all

o gee i whander what hapen thats y i tap the drop tube

we need a post for pic and stuff on outhers we see do stuff like this not to make fun of them but to be a lson for outhers

[danr]

people never stop surprising me. double or triple loading red dot in a 223 is just stupid. he's lucky the frag only went into his arm. morons shouldn't reload, and they really shouldn't swage.

thanks for the update about core bonding xfox.

:)
dan

[MIBULLETS]

The 50 gr bullets will stabilize just fine in the 1 in 8 twist barrel. Faster twist is Ok, but too slow will not be good.

[sargenv]

I've shot 50 gr flat based regular bullets in a gun with a 1 in 8 twist and they shot just fine.. They were at least minute of 10" plate at 200 and shot just fine..

Om another note, I just got my scope back for my featureless AR-15.. A Simmons 1.5-5x on a LaRue Base.. I'm excited to go give it a whirl soon..

[xfoxofshogo]

hay dan let me know win your going to be on skype

[xfoxofshogo]

bump
for some one to fine

[sargenv]

I fired some of these recently.. I made up a pretty good batch, I wasn't too careful weighing my cores, so my weights were kind of all over the place. i segregated them into 52, 53, 54, 55, and so on.. basically my weights are for example 53.5 + or - .5.. which means what I call a 53 is nominally 53.0-53.9. Same goes for 54, 52, 55, etc.

I loaded these with XMR2015.. a faster burning powder that I'd used for 55's.. No velocity data yet, and these are being fired out of a 1 in 9 - 16" 5.56 bbl. Off hand at 50 yards, they kept within about 2". I shot some of these prone with no real support at the 200 yard line and found the group to be in the range of about 8-10". There was a steel 10" round target at distance and once I figured out where I was hitting, I managed about 80% hits on it.

I have yet to sit at the bench with sandbags and see what these will really do. it was more along the lines of "Will these work for close in targets?", close being under 50 yards.. for any kind of range, I will usually load the 55 fmj-bt's factory made bullets..

If I feel confident after a while I may use just these.. I would say 90% of my shooting is done in under 50 yards (action shooting) so these bullets will get me nice and practiced..

I have a different method for de-rimming, and at some point I'll post how I do that. I also asked Dan to give me a .225" die with the thoughts of at some point shooting them in a worn out barrel. I use the .225" die to true up the brass after I de-rim them.. with that "other method"... soon to be revealed I hope.. :)

[rasto]

I am looking forward of your "different method for de-rimming".
I started to derim the cases today and I managed cca 300 cases to be done.
Tomorrow is a day as well ;-)

[newcastter]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/195124fb2c31f5ebdf.jpg
This is my group at 25yds with a red dot and loaded them in steel cases over 21gr of WC844

[sargenv]

I finally got off my tuckus and took some pictures.. The method I use to de-rim is something I've been kicking around for a long time. It uses a piece of steel that I sized down using nothing more than a drill press to drill the hole, a hack saw, a vice, and a file or two. I didn't care for the punch method. I seemed to always lose about 10-15% to various punch issues or the dang brass would stick on the punch. I had a 12 gauge collet sizer made by MEC. I imagine you could use any of the collet sizers available, you'd just have to make up your own center piece that you use to size the brass with. Without further adieu here is the way I do things.. I do of course anneal the brass first, and then the lemi shine polish.. though you could de-rim then dump things into the lemi shine.. This method makes the cleaning of the inner part of the brass less critical since nothing but the lead core will be inserted into the brass jacket.

Step 1: Choose brass, place on holder.
44438

Step2: The Modified Collet setup. This one in 12 gauge.
44439

Step 3: Insert brass, rim side down in between blocks.
44440

Step 4: Squeeze brass. Usually I do it in two steps. Squeeze once.
44441

Step 5: Then turn 90 degrees and squeeze again to make sure it is "roundish".
44442

Step 6: Measured to show size after squeezed.
44443

Step 7: Apply lube and push through sizing die. I asked Dan to supply me with a .225 size die in hopes of using a "shot out" 223 Rem barrel.. I discovered something later with my lead cores that measure .190", that extra .001" I size them to makes the cores slide in instead of a friction fit.
44444

Step 8: Show the after sized, size.. From here I go to core seat, then point form, then size, then boat tail.
44445

[sargenv]

Of course you use the holder that goes into the gritty brass, but I've not found it to be an issue.

[rasto]

Well after few months it is a time for real swaging spree :-)
I started with cores. I had a problem with stucked upper punch due to the pure lead leaking.
I send the die together with punches and sample of my lead wire to Dan and he adapted all together.
So far so good and I produced few thousands of precisely made cores within few hours (appr 600/hour)

http://s14.postimage.org/igisc3n71/CIMG0915_resize.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/igisc3n71/)

http://s14.postimage.org/ngg8k1stp/CIMG0917_resize.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/ngg8k1stp/)

The only disadvantage is the diameter (0.1994inch) of finished cores, which can not be shaked into shells so easily and need to be inserted one by one.

[Utah Shooter]

I finally got off my tuckus and took some pictures.. The method I use to de-rim is something I've been kicking around for a long time. It uses a piece of steel that I sized down using nothing more than a drill press to drill the hole, a hack saw, a vice, and a file or two. I didn't care for the punch method. I seemed to always lose about 10-15% to various punch issues or the dang brass would stick on the punch. I had a 12 gauge collet sizer made by MEC. I imagine you could use any of the collet sizers available, you'd just have to make up your own center piece that you use to size the brass with. Without further adieu here is the way I do things.. I do of course anneal the brass first, and then the lemi shine polish.. though you could de-rim then dump things into the lemi shine.. This method makes the cleaning of the inner part of the brass less critical since nothing but the lead core will be inserted into the brass jacket.

Step 1: Choose brass, place on holder.
44438

Step2: The Modified Collet setup. This one in 12 gauge.
44439

Step 3: Insert brass, rim side down in between blocks.
44440

Step 4: Squeeze brass. Usually I do it in two steps. Squeeze once.
44441

Step 5: Then turn 90 degrees and squeeze again to make sure it is "roundish".
44442

Step 6: Measured to show size after squeezed.
44443

Step 7: Apply lube and push through sizing die. I asked Dan to supply me with a .225 size die in hopes of using a "shot out" 223 Rem barrel.. I discovered something later with my lead cores that measure .190", that extra .001" I size them to makes the cores slide in instead of a friction fit.
44444

Step 8: Show the after sized, size.. From here I go to core seat, then point form, then size, then boat tail.
44445

Wow. Looks like a pain in the but. Hit up the local hardware shop and get a washer to get those cases un stuck from the punch. Oh and a piece of pvc pipe that will fit around your ram cut it about 1.5-2 inches and done.

[sargenv]

I'm good doing it my way.. I never liked the punch method.. it seems to stress the brass too much and it just doesn't seem like the press likes the stress.. I sounds awful going through then there is the need to have clean brass so that the grit from the priming mix doesn't screw up the punch. This method, the inside of the brass need not be cleaned. I'm trading one thing for another.. I've always liked the idea of compressing the brass rather than punching it through a die (where it might get stuck). Another method of mouse trap so to speak.. It also takes less pressure for me to collet compress the brass than it does for me to de-rim it via the punch method. I can live with a little more work over the problem of getting the brass absolutely clean, in and out.

I also don't have to sort my brass cases.. I get about 99.5% usability regardless of brass brand..

[BT Sniper]

Don't really know how to put it lightly but you guys are using the wrong dies or set up if the derim die is not giving you near %100 results.

I admit I use a pnumatic press for 99 percent of my deriming but the die and punch are the same that I offer with my 22 cal packages. The punch is hardened HSS and all I do is tumble my 22LR brass (couple thousand must fit in that tumbler) then lube a thousand or more in a gallon zip lock with my swage lube and I'm good to go. I have derimed 5k or more with the same punch and die. ZERO flaws! Period! No sorting brass, no worry about being extra clean on the inside......etc. All of it goes in 22LR and comes out perfect 22 cal jackets.

BT

[rasto]

BT I have no problems with Dan's dies at all.
I got 5 dies set for 1/3 of the price in comparison with your production.
Yes your dies look nicer and more luxury and you spend much more time on it but the final product which comes from my dies makes me happy and that's main goal.
I have to admit that meanwhile derimming inside non cleaned brass it stucks on the punch if the punch is not lubed sufficiently.
So far, I am happy with the buy and Dan's interest about our unsolved problems regarding swaging concerning his dies.

[sargenv]

Maybe I've been doing it all wrong, but I think I discussed this briefly with you Brian, that I always hated the idea of punching them through a die.. I much prefer the way I'm doing it.. even if it takes a bit more time.. I was likely going to do it that way regardless of whose dies I picked up.. I think my issue was being too anxious to get started that my "cleaning method" wasn't quite right. Doing things this way, I don't have to bother with a thorough cleaning before derimming.

In regards to BT, if it weren't for him sparking my interest in the first place with the 9 into 40 cal pistol bullets, I'd likely not be diving in as far as I have.. If things go well with some outside forces going on, I'm likely going to be purchasing some more of these swage dies from BT in the future.. :) I am REALLY interested in the 30 cal dies.. and I've mentioned the .338 cal stuff to a few friends...

[rasto]

Sargenv I have a solution for your sticking cases problem!
First of all, put the brass into a ultrasonic cleaner or boil it in the water 2/3 and vinegar 1/3 not longer than 1h otherwise it will get spotted.
Second but not the last thing, is to lube, not light but massively, the lower punch every time before put a case on it.
That's it.

[michiganvet]

Right on, "an" is a prefix that means "without".

[sargenv]

Sargenv I have a solution for your sticking cases problem!
First of all, put the brass into a ultrasonic cleaner or boil it in the water 2/3 and vinegar 1/3 not longer than 1h otherwise it will get spotted.
Second but not the last thing, is to lube, not light but massively, the lower punch every time before put a case on it.
That's it.

Tried the ultrasonic method.. tried lubing the punch, tried all of that.. something on my end doesn't seem to work and I'm just not going to bother with it.. I'm happy doing things my way.. you like to do things your way.. let's just agree that we like our way(s) and leave it at that :)

[newcastter]

Don't really know how to put it lightly but you guys are using the wrong dies or set up if the derim die is not giving you near %100 results.

I admit I use a pnumatic press for 99 percent of my deriming but the die and punch are the same that I offer with my 22 cal packages. The punch is hardened HSS and all I do is tumble my 22LR brass (couple thousand must fit in that tumbler) then lube a thousand or more in a gallon zip lock with my swage lube and I'm good to go. I have derimed 5k or more with the same punch and die. ZERO flaws! Period! No sorting brass, no worry about being extra clean on the inside......etc. All of it goes in 22LR and comes out perfect 22 cal jackets.

BT

I derimmed 1000 pieces this weekend and only had one punch threw and 0 stick to punch

[rasto]

You asked for it :-)
One month before I started my swaging spree and this is the result up to now.
Other half of cases are waiting to be processed.
Do not asked me about figures to be honest I do not know.
I will stop if all ingredients will be mixed up together ;-)

20kg of cores for 55gr
http://s15.postimage.org/c19acy1mf/CIMG1166_resize.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/c19acy1mf/)
derimmed cases
http://s15.postimage.org/he2q4tewn/CIMG1164_resize.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/he2q4tewn/)
finished hollow points with boat tail sized to .224
http://s15.postimage.org/lbpzu81pz/CIMG1163_resize.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/lbpzu81pz/)

[fredj338]

I've shot 50 gr flat based regular bullets in a gun with a 1 in 8 twist and they shot just fine.. They were at least minute of 10" plate at 200 and shot just fine..

Om another note, I just got my scope back for my featureless AR-15.. A Simmons 1.5-5x on a LaRue Base.. I'm excited to go give it a whirl soon..
Curious why you would buy an expensive rifle & mounting system & then plug in a cheap scope?? IME over the years, no such thing as good cheap glass.[smilie=s:

[newcastter]

Rasto,
What are you using to anneal all that?

[rasto]

Ordinary grill. I annealed 16000 cases within 2,5 hours.

[newcastter]

Im gonna have some extra "shiny" punches in about six weeks for cheap if anyone is interested.

[rasto]

Lower punches are essential. I need other to be made exactly to my dies diameters.Therefore I will let my mechanist to make them for me.
Dan's punches are lacking precision and quality therefore be prepared for replacements. The dies them self are sufficient regarding quality.

[xfoxofshogo]

Don't really know how to put it lightly but you guys are using the wrong dies or set up if the derim die is not giving you near %100 results.

I admit I use a pnumatic press for 99 percent of my deriming but the die and punch are the same that I offer with my 22 cal packages. The punch is hardened HSS and all I do is tumble my 22LR brass (couple thousand must fit in that tumbler) then lube a thousand or more in a gallon zip lock with my swage lube and I'm good to go. I have derimed 5k or more with the same punch and die. ZERO flaws! Period! No sorting brass, no worry about being extra clean on the inside......etc. All of it goes in 22LR and comes out perfect 22 cal jackets.

BT


thats what im doing works good i mod my punch just a bit and now not one case gets stuck all i did was round the end of it and it push the 22lr case ez it add one more punch

I sorry i have not been here guys i been out uesing all the ammo i made lol
and flying rc planes you will start to see me back on more im runing out of ammo lol

[rasto]

BT is just slandering other die makers for his own profit.
You can see it in every thread about swagging dies even created the brand new one how to spend the money wisely.

On the contrary, his dies look nicely and well made but it is more than notable doing it on purpose.

[xfoxofshogo]

I would like to use a set of TB dies and see if they work the same or beter but i do not have 800 to blow on a set of dies just to test them out and see

now i know ever thing can be made beter then the outher guy but i will say how much you have to spend on them will all ways be the finle line

if it means i have to do one more step to save 200 hands down i will save 200

[xfoxofshogo]

Tried the ultrasonic method.. tried lubing the punch, tried all of that.. something on my end doesn't seem to work and I'm just not going to bother with it.. I'm happy doing things my way.. you like to do things your way.. let's just agree that we like our way(s) and leave it at that :)

yep we all have are own way of doing stuff and no one going to make us change

[newcastter]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/1951250020d0e5d999.jpg
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/1951250020d0e6df4d.jpg

I have been making alot nicer bullets lately as I have changed my method of annealing.
In Dan's directions he stated a method of using an oven at 450 degrees, well that wasn't working so after reading through all the good and plentifull info here I started using the propane torch method and wow what a differance I can get a smaller metplat and the accuracy has improved greatly

[runfiverun]

BT is just slandering other die makers for his own profit.
You can see it in every thread about swagging dies even created the brand new one how to spend the money wisely.

On the contrary, his dies look nicely and well made but it is more than notable doing it on purpose.

just read this.
it amuses me...greatly.
it's wrong but still amusing.
quality cost money......once.
notice the next few posts about having new parts needed? that savings is being eaten away.
and before you ask.
yes, i have a set of these dies [done a review on them] and i do need some new parts allready.
i'm just gonna buy another swage die set instead.

[ekg98]

I have been trying to get a hold of danr to see if he has a updated price list. I am needing a point forming punch.

Did he drop off this Earth? Would like to get some other things like a core mold not sure if he sells them.

[Love Life]

I have an honest question for RunFiveRun: In your opinion do you believe these dies are worth the $600 or is it better to just keep pinching and get a set from either Corbin or BT Sniper?

*******Disclaimer******
I have no dog in any fight concerning swaging products. I just do not like to throw away money.
*******Disclaimer******

[runfiverun]

after trying dies from many different company's. [C&H,danr's, BT's, plus another one]

i'll straight up say that i just sent Bryan a check for 775.00 [for a 308 die set] and will send him another one when i can scrape up the cash.
i don't need to swage.
i can cover anything with cast,paper patched,or store bought.
i want to, and i want quality results.

[newcastter]

after trying dies from many different company's. [C&H,danr's, BT's, plus another one]

i'll straight up say that i just sent Bryan a check for 775.00 [for a 308 die set] and will send him another one when i can scrape up the cash.
i don't need to swage.
i can cover anything with cast,paper patched,or store bought.
i want to, and i want quality results.

What does that post have to do with anything here???
In case you havnt noticed this is a thread about Danr dies not anyone else dies.
If you are happy with your dies post it on your manufacture's page not there competition. That last post reminds me of Obama's campaign...sad

[runfiverun]

oddly i have the dan-r die set
and i answered a straight up question.

here i'll review them again
BUY THE BT SNIPER DIES.
there, iv'e reviewed my DAN_R dies.... you happy now?

[DukeInFlorida]

And, last I heard from XFoxa-go-go. . . . .

danr isn't even in the swage die biz any more. He got a job, is too busy, realized that the dies are too hard to make properly, and the profit isn't what he thought.

At least, that's what he (Xfoxa-go-go) said in castboolits CHAT.

[newcastter]

And, last I heard from XFoxa-go-go. . . . .

danr isn't even in the swage die biz any more. He got a job, is too busy, realized that the dies are too hard to make properly, and the profit isn't what he thought.

At least, that's what he (Xfoxa-go-go) said in castboolits CHAT.

Yes that is the case he landed a job that takes up far to much of his time to make the dies anymore (that was his explanation) however I have been able to get a hold of him for any questions I have had, I agree BT's dies are a very quality product and will produce a better bullet but for the $300 that I paid for mine I am very happy, now that I have my annealing process straightened out I am holding 1" groups at 100yds.
I will be purchasing dies for other calibers from BT I have nothing against the guy at all but at this point we are not on here comparing the two sets just talking about the set we own

[newcastter]

oddly i have the dan-r die set
and i answered a straight up question.

here i'll review them again
BUY THE BT SNIPER DIES.
there, iv'e reviewed my DAN_R dies.... you happy now?

Yes thank you, If I had to make the decision now to purhase either sets at the prices posted now I would go with BT's set myself but again for the $300 I am satisfied

[Love Life]

I apologize for starting an issue. Next time I will send a PM with my question to the relevant person.

Thank you for the information.

[sargenv]

I don't think I paid $300 for my DanR dies.. now knowing that DanR is out of the biz, I'll just have to keep the ones I have going.. I especially LOVE the fact that I can boat tail my bullets for ease of seating them. I don't know if BT offers that yet or not since I've not been kept abreast of what he's created lately. He does make a very nice product, but then he started out of his garage and made it his business to make these things. He is a stay at home Husband, so I figure he had the time to do the research.

DanR offered something while he wasn't working and has now moved on to a real job probably making a steady paycheck. I can't fault him for doing that in this economy. I'm happy to have gotten a solution to a problem which at the time had a 1.5 - 2 year wait and Corbin or Blackmun was the only other solution.

As for core molds.. I just made one up myself from the blank Lee 6 cav mold.. I found the right size drill bit and made up my own core mold. I am happy with what I have.

I may eventually pick up one of Brian's 22lr into 224 cal bullet setup, when I have that kind of money to throw around again. Lack of a product breeds alternatives. It seems that we now have an alternative that we didn't before (BT, Corbin, Blackmun).

[rasto]

runfiverun I am glad to amuse you but that wasn't the point of my post.
In my country we are calling BT's behavior like dancing on somebody's grave.I am still talking about his post in Dan's threat.
Spare punches cost me literally nothing in compare with the mass production.
I would rather buy Dillon 1050 than two sets from Brian although precision costs.
Up to now I finished more than 7000pcs 55gr HPBT with Dan's dies.
The dies are not perfect, but I know how use them and what to be done differently for another version if somebody ask me.

[runfiverun]

i may [o-k i was] a bit harsh.
i am/was just being honest with my thoughts.
i get some good results with my die set also.
but there are several things i think could/should have been improved.

and i recall the post you are speaking of,it may have been somewhat off colored but i did not write that one.

[xfoxofshogo]

And, last I heard from XFoxa-go-go. . . . .

danr isn't even in the swage die biz any more. He got a job, is too busy, realized that the dies are too hard to make properly, and the profit isn't what he thought.

At least, that's what he (Xfoxa-go-go) said in castboolits CHAT.

he got a good paying job he need they where in the hole

makeing the dies help them out and help us out i love my die set and still makeing alot of j words and have made a lot of coustom punchs and stuff wich

i know you cant do with outher dies set

win you go with out working for 2 yeas you can dig hole deep a nuff to hide a city bus in and it takes time to fill that back in im gussing we will see him soon after he can get time off

[xfoxofshogo]

im not on here a lot for im working on my house and just do not have time to sit here like back then

if you see me in chat you see i do not stay long

[rasto]

So here you are my product made by Dan's dies.
Used case Lapua the same type
The product is 60gr LTBT bullet which I made 2000pcs divided into 3 groups 59.8-60gr, 60.2-60.4gr and 60.4-60.8gr.
http://img.janforman.com/th/CIMG1713resizewmmk.JPG (http://img.janforman.com/CIMG1713resizewmmk.JPG)

http://img.janforman.com/th/CIMG1715resizeuq5p.JPG (http://img.janforman.com/CIMG1715resizeuq5p.JPG)

http://img.janforman.com/th/CIMG1716resizeoav4.JPG (http://img.janforman.com/CIMG1716resizeoav4.JPG)

[runfiverun]

nice looking soft points there rasto.
you must have a much different point forming top punch than mine.

[rasto]

No I have not but I reconsidered procedure ;-)
While point forming the bullet the lead need to be pressed out of the case.
Afterwards use your boat tail LOWER punch and in one step form the lead into the tip and form bottom of the bullet into the boat tail as you wish.

[rasto]

Here I am again with my three months swaging spree :-)
Hopefully I am prepared for the next few seasons :-)
6500 HPBT 55gr
2000 LTBT 60gr

http://img.janforman.com/th/IMAG0285nof6.jpg (http://img.janforman.com/IMAG0285nof6.jpg)

[xfoxofshogo]

wow your like me swag a lot then take the next 2 years to shoot them all lol

[newcastter]

We have been making these for over a year now while the critics of these dies are still waiting for theirs, last I heard they "hope" to get them by christmas....hahaha

[perotter]

We have been making these for over a year now while the critics of these dies are still waiting for theirs, last I heard they "hope" to get them by christmas....hahaha

Is he still selling dies?

I thought that Kaine Dies went out of bussiness & the wait for them would be forever.

[PatMarlin]

That would be a long wait.

Maybe there could be some kind of rush fee? Get em' sooner? ...:mrgreen:

Thing is anyone can make a few sets of dies for awhile and do good. Making many sets of dies, consistently over the years as a business, and make a living at it- now there's the rub,.

It is a difficult task to pull off.

I would still like to get a set to swage 22 cal someday, and it would have been nice to get a set of these.

[DukeInFlorida]

BT Sniper is still the go-to guy for the high quality die sets for .22 > .224

He's the ONLY one that has been there from the beginning, and is still in production.

Kaine and the other schmuck are GONE. Long gone.

[rasto]

Yes I had a free time to take care about that and I am looking forward to next season to spend nice time on the shooting yard and adjusting the ammo for my M4 :-)
I am pleased that I managed to get these dies for that kind of money otherwise I wouldn't be swaging.

[Lizard333]

BT Sniper is still the go-to guy for the high quality die sets for .22 > .224

He's the ONLY one that has been there from the beginning, and is still in production.

Kaine and the other schmuck are GONE. Long gone.

Nothing against BT, I love his stuff, but I'm pretty sure Corbin and RCE have been doing it longer. Not cheaper, but longer for sure.

[marten]

Nothing against BT, I love his stuff, but I'm pretty sure Corbin and RCE have been doing it longer. Not cheaper, but longer for sure.

It would be nice if the Duke'n'BT love fest could calm down a little.

[xfoxofshogo]

dan R just realy busy with work he got a job

[Hamish]

Nothing against BT, I love his stuff, but I'm pretty sure Corbin and RCE have been doing it longer. Not cheaper, but longer for sure.

I believe the discussion was concerning swage die makers who maintain a CB presence? I"m not a swager, but it's pretty hard not to see that BT has devoted himself to this site and the folks who populate it.

edit: I was unfamiliar with Kaine, went looking. This fellow appears to have some issues to address:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwuY7u7zdAI

[Utah Shooter]

I believe the discussion was concerning swage die makers who maintain a CB presence? I"m not a swager, but it's pretty hard not to see that BT has devoted himself to this site and the folks who populate it.

edit: I was unfamiliar with Kaine, went looking. This fellow appears to have some issues to address:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwuY7u7zdAI
There was no issue with the dies as far as I am concerned when I made the video. Looked like an incorrect punch was used for these projectiles. The smaller ones really shot well out of my AR.

[sargenv]

I've not had any trouble, besides not having time lately, to use my Kaine Dies..

Bullets shot fine from my AR also :)

[Hamish]

There was no issue with the dies as far as I am concerned when I made the video. Looked like an incorrect punch was used for these projectiles. The smaller ones really shot well out of my AR.

I am glad to hear that. Daily I am reminded who blessed we are with both CB and Youtube. At the point when I *do* finally order a swage set having an inside peek should make the learning curve as painless as possible.

[Utah Shooter]

Oh I also should add I did not buy a set of his dies however. Opted for a more trusted name at alomost the same price.

[rasto]

SO far so good, I am satisfied with dies and with the product.
I would change few details if I can to make it more precise and easier to use but nothing perfect.

Utahs boolets seem to me like the first made without previous experience but that was one year ago.
I believe that nowadays production is elsewhere.

[Utah Shooter]

Those projectiles were made by Dan.

[xfoxofshogo]

Hello all im still uesing my dies still working grate they work real smoth now i can say im never selling my set

[rasto]

Mine the same.
For that kind of money among competitions it was bargain.
I am glad that I was in the right place at the right time = here :-)

[newcastter]

I couldn't agree more Right place Right time, I am extremely pleased with my dies. I produce very accurate ammo for next to nothing and its fun to do.

[rasto]

Maybe I will sell it after a 20 000 rounds made ;-)
But only for nowadays die makers price :-)

[newcastter]

At a time when my local gun shops are completely wiped out of .223 ammo I am sure glad I have these Kaine dies because there is no shortage on my end...

[94ranger]

Noob/lurker here. I've been reading up on Kaine's, BT's, and Corbin's products for .224 bullets. Might have to get into this.

I assume everyone that has Kaine dies are still liking them? Anything changed from late last year to make you think otherwise.

Thanks!

[Utah Shooter]

Noob/lurker here. I've been reading up on Kaine's, BT's, and Corbin's products for .224 bullets. Might have to get into this.

I assume everyone that has Kaine dies are still liking them? Anything changed from late last year to make you think otherwise.

Thanks!
I think the only complaint was he is not making them anymore.

[sargenv]

At the time I asked him to make me up a .225 size die for at the time a thought of having a size dies for a "shot out barrel". I figured if I could find a 5.56 barrel that had been "shot out" for normal .224 bullets, the ability to size them to .225 would have been an interesting project to see if the oversized bullet would then re-stabilize..

Since I did not find a shot out 5.56 barrel, I use the .225 sizer to run my .22 lr cases through so that the cores I made up drop in that much easier by hand. I found that seating the cores into the brass sized to .224 was just a tad tight and took longer to do.

[fishin_bum]

I have a set of Kaine Dies .224 That I have had about a year! I have made about 8000 boolits. I see a lot of questions about meplat it is the same size as the ejector punch but the punches are so simple it is easy to make what you want with a drill bit shaft and dremel tool. These are great dies.

[Utah Shooter]

Your meplat should actually be smaller than your ejector punch.

[rasto]

I have never seen BT dies by my naked eye but Kaine's dies were preciselly made and for 300 bucks worth to try. But nowadays only BT is producing them (+ companies) and he knows it and it reflects the price.

[victor3ranger]

Wish I had the money to get a setup.

Maybe someday when Uncle Sam stops throwing me curveballs I will have a chance to buy some.

[Lizard333]

I have never seen BT dies by my naked eye but Kaine's dies were preciselly made and for 300 bucks worth to try. But nowadays only BT is producing them (+ companies) and he knows it and it reflects the price.

What reflects in his price is the amount of work that goes into the dies. His prices are comparable to both Corbin's, and only a slightly bit higher than Blackmons.

I'm guessing you don't have any idea the amount of work that has to go into a set of swaging dies.

I guess your right though, it's not like his dies are making bullets that will be shot out of a barrel at 3500 FPS, and sent down range at a couple hundred thousand rpm.

He's not exactly throwing them together and putting garbage out there because he's the only one. You have a choice. BT is the local guy, and a contributor to this site. I have his dies, and RCE's, and I happy with both.

[94ranger]

I think the only complaint was he is not making them anymore.

CRUD. Did not want to hear this :x Shucks. Late to the game I suppose. Hopefully he'll reconsider because I'd love a set in the near future.

[rasto]

Ranger according last statement is able to do them but hi will charge double price so 600$. If I were you, I would reconsider it and rather buy from BT.
Lizard all the time the same story when someone tells something about BT's dies. I know he is a NRA life member, I know he is forum sponsor, I know everybody is satisfied but I will tell you news the Earth is not rotating around him and it is not even flat.
The point is "swaging thread" is all about him and everything else is a garbage, useless, worthless ....
Few forum member got lucky and bought fully functional dies for reasonable price and are happy about that.
Ranger wants to be happy as well but hi missed the train.

[Utah Shooter]

Trust me. BT is not giving them away. He is making money to make it worth his while or he would not be doing it. I have nothing against BT. In fact he is a really nice guy. If someone does not have the coin he is asking then they have no other option but to go with someone else.

This should be a place where we can go to get information on all makers of dies without someone getting upset about it.

[Lizard333]

Ranger according last statement is able to do them but hi will charge double price so 600$. If I were you, I would reconsider it and rather buy from BT.
Lizard all the time the same story when someone tells something about BT's dies. I know he is a NRA life member, I know he is forum sponsor, I know everybody is satisfied but I will tell you news the Earth is not rotating around him and it is not even flat.
The point is "swaging thread" is all about him and everything else is a garbage, useless, worthless ....
Few forum member got lucky and bought fully functional dies for reasonable price and are happy about that.
Ranger wants to be happy as well but hi missed the train.

I agree, there are those that are EXTREMELY loyal to BT. Even to the point that I think it hurts his reputation rather than helps. I have his dies and RCE's, they both have their pluses and minuses.

They both have their place on my bench. I use the RCE's for bench rest accuracy using commercial jackets. BT's are used in my pistols or lever actions where accuracy isn't an issue out past 150 yards. His dies are using brass, so I don't expect as much. The last postal shoot is poof of that.

These dies, whomever you decide to purchase from, are a HOT commodity at the moment. No one is going to be giving them away. I have to admit it was tuff buying a 224 die from RCE, when I could buy decent bullets in bulk for 6 cents a piece. Do I regret them now, heck no.

[newcastter]

Honestly, this qoute has no base to stand on... Bt's prices are no where near Blackmon's prices neither are his options and Corbin??? How can you even mention them in the same sentence...now I am not knocking BT's product but his prices are high but so is the market. Any how I own a set of Kaine dies and they are awesome, but I am swinging in the direction of perfection and so far that has me leaning in Larry Blackmons direction...I am still not sure if I will ever even sell my Kaine dies...Something else to think about is Blackmon offers his 22lr dies at a 7s ogive as aposed to the 6s ogive as as the rest of the competition and it is competing and beating most of the other manufactures...and thats a fact.


What reflects in his price is the amount of work that goes into the dies. His prices are comparable to both Corbin's, and only a slightly bit higher than Blackmons.

I'm guessing you don't have any idea the amount of work that has to go into a set of swaging dies.

I guess your right though, it's not like his dies are making bullets that will be shot out of a barrel at 3500 FPS, and sent down range at a couple hundred thousand rpm.

He's not exactly throwing them together and putting garbage out there because he's the only one. You have a choice. BT is the local guy, and a contributor to this site. I have his dies, and RCE's, and I happy with both.

[fishin_bum]

I went to the range today, shot around 300 of my bullets made with .224 Kaine Dies, it was a great day! Although it was cold and windy, about a 20-25 mph wind out of the east south east, we were shooting south. The targets showed it too, not very good consistency out of any of the 5 .223's we were shooting. Even factory loads were all over the place. Will have to try again on another day. It was alot of fun and I picked up a few 1000 22lr cases for making more boolits. We also placed a jar of Tannerite under a 32" T.V. it was so cool!!! Now we have new material for knapping arrowheads. My buddy's kid spent an hour picking up every little piece.

[BT Sniper]

As there seems to be a bit of mention about myself and my products latly in this thread I would like to simply mention a few things if I may,

There is a lot to be learned and a lot to be said about being in business for one's self. There is much expense and an incredible amount of labor involved with making a quality set of swage dies. In it for the money? Well I would like to think so but seriously, do the Corbins live a life of luxury? Blackmon? he was a doctor (eyes or teeth wasn't it?) and now he is retired correct? and making dies on the side? point being....... probably not exactly in it for the money or a living any longer.

I was lucky (if you could say that) that I had a little inharitence money that I was able to survive the start up of a new business as well as a understanding wife with a modest income to support us, otherwise I would not have ventured into this swage die business as deep as I have or even survived as a business.

After all was said and done last year in my 4th year of making swage dies, I profited less then a mimimum wage job. I could have been a fry cook with benifits but I choose to make swage dies because it intrests me and I have learned to be fairly good at it after all this time, cost and effort. It allows me to be home taking care of my family and tucking my girls in every night. When it comes down to what's important in life many of you with family may understand this and those without soon will, that money isn't everything.

As for cost.... well yes, it is expensive. I too thought Corbin was expensive till I ventured into the business........ now? well I think either of the Corbin's dies are a bargin with everything that is involved. Still, take the neccessary tooling and dies needed to make 22 cal bullets..... 4 dies, a core mold and an ejection system for $1200, seems expensive sure.... yet averaged out it is only $200 per item. How many hours you suppose it takes for each component to be made? Material, tooling, learning curve, carbide reamers, second sets of carbide reamers because your first set was too big, or too small, Professional heat treatment, shipping back and forth to the heat treat plants, polishing, potential lost dies or reamers in transit, etc. etc. etc..... and have the dies turn out perfect within a few tenths, 0.0001! Would you do it? could you do it? for minimum wage? Does Lee? RCBS? Any of the big names? No! Probably a reason for that you suppose? How much did that AR-15 cost that you'll be shooting these bullets from? has the cost of those guns or components gone up since the start of the new year? Yep! Has my prices? Nope! My prices have stayed the same since November of last year.

If you ask me I think we all have it pretty good with atleast 4 different manufactures of swage dies to choose from. I have told many potential customers that no matter who's dies they choose they will most certainly be happy with their purchase. People ask me why my dies seem so expensive compared to Blackmon, I think they should be asking how Blackmon can do it for so much less. How much longer do you suppose he will continue to offer his dies and/or at that price? Even CH-4d used to offer their swage die sets for around $125 but not any longer if at all. No one is getting any yonger and prices rarly go down.

Yes this is a great site and eveyone should feel free to post whatever they wish. There is certainly no better time to make your own bullets no matter what or who's dies you use to make them so long as one keeps it safe. We should all strive to keep it a great site and forum to learn and share, after all even those of us that now experience the freedom of making our own bullets, some for many years, where once also dependant on commercial bullets and interested in making our own.

As for everything supposibly being about me? Well I certainly hope not, I simply post more here then Blackmon or either of the Corbins do :), wouldn't it be great if they posted here too? but they don't, yet I will spend countless hours on this site to help out as much as I can. and as far as any negitive comments that may have been said or mentioned? not from me! I am not one to speak down upon anyone or any set of dies. Many of you have read my praise for other's swage die products, CH-4d! Gave them so much business they could no longer keep up, RCE with his Sea girt press, WHAT A BARGIN and now suddenly it is not on his web site any longer? BTSniper monopoly? I would hope it is quite the opposite as I continue to spread the word and introduce as many as I can to this site as well as making their own bullets no matter who's dies they use. Sure there may be those that have strong opinions about one set of dies or another but it is not my words they are using to show their support, for or against anyone.

Yet there have been those that have been burned, ask anyone that invested money in Coltec. Those that speak their mind may have strong fealings when it comes to such maters and do not wish to see anyone taken advantage of again on this site wether it is their money or not. I would hope and think this has lead us to a more stringent set of guidlines for the next or future vendor sponsored providers of any potential swage dies on this site. It is by no means a BTSniper monopoly. I simply post a lot here with the support and backing of the site owners. I work hard at offering the best products at the highest qulality that I am capible of, keeping customers informed and keeping them satisfied the best I can, pure and simple professionalism! The same professional service I provided as a flight instructor with an FAA Gold Seal CFII certificit, the same professional service I provided as a airline captain and now the same professional service I strive to provide as a vendor sponsored quality swage die provider on this site that still has a lot of years left in the business.

I'm sure I have strayed from the OP content of this thread so I will politly step off my soap box now and get back to work but do ask yourself if you can imagine all the work that goes into these expensive dies and be thankful there are still a few options to choose from and no matter who's dies one chooses or uses, chances are you/they are going to be very happy with your/their purchase and ability to free yourself/themself from those that attempt to regulate our shooting needs.

As always I say good shooting and Swage On!

BT

p.s. I claim to be pretty good at making swage dies, not spelling :)

[fishin_bum]

Brian

I would like to commend you for what you do! Your dies are awesome, and the information, knowledge and help you give here is close to priceless! Especially for those just figuring it out. I started swaging a year ago with your 40 cal one-step dies, about nine months ago I purchased a set of .224 Kaine Dies, I have produces well over 20,000 bullets between these two die sets. I am constantly learning what makes a better bullet, as I read through the forums I pick up little tricks that save me time, or make the bullets more accurate, or make them look nicer. I first learned about swaging from the Corbin site, I think I have read every page on his site 5 times or more. Price was an issue to me when I first started, what if I didn't like it? But I feel I made the right choices getting into swaging with the more affordable die sets, Now price isn't the issue; Money is, when the money isn't tied up fixing the washing machine, buying over priced gasoline, you will be one of the first to know because I will be placing an order. I like your product, your service, and your knowledge. Thank You!

[supe47]

Brian

Nice reply. I understand the learning curve, tool and material procurement and obsessive compulsion to make the best product and I'm only making stupid plastic trays. Minimum wage? That would be a raise. You can't please everyone, just please those who choose to deal with you. I would ask those who complain about prices to just....make it themselves. Problem solved.
Supe

[plus1hdcp]

Well spoken Brian

[rasto]

supe47 what are you talking about? This thread is about Kaine's dies. Do you have something in common? Want you contribute with something in medias res? I do not think so.
We were speaking about somebodies like you are in your post = Lizard333 "there are those that are EXTREMELY loyal to BT. Even to the point that I think it hurts his reputation rather than helps".
Have you ever swaged a bullet? You wish so and wants to make a deal with BT . This is nothing against BT (nice guy nice products) but against his EXTREMELY loyal supporters which are inundate swage threads with non-committal posts helping nobody only smut forum making it less helpful for interested.
Speech is silver, silence is golden.
I do own Kaine's dies and I produce bullets like this without any effort!
http://img.janforman.com/th/IMG3299esmh.jpg (http://img.janforman.com/IMG3299esmh.jpg)

[newcastter]

Why can't we have a simple discussion about what we think about our dies and what we think about what we paid for our dies and and the quality vs what other die makers offer? We have discussed many different makers on this thread.
Why does a single die maker feel he needs to come here and try to convince everyone of his professionalism and defend his prices and work ethic when all we are doing here is talking about Kaine dies and lately comparing cost and quality of other die makers. Why do so many of you get so offended by our conversation here and feel you need to chime in about our dies that you currently do not own?
No one said anything bad about BT as a person or his product in fact all good comments. Just because his price is a little high and we agree on that doesn't mean it's time for the BT soldiers to storm over and put in there 2 cents.

[newcastter]

Good lookin bullet rasto.

[BT Sniper]

The commment posted below bothered me a little. Just wanted to point out to comments like "garbage", "usless", "wothless", as posted below..... that may suggest I have said or implyed any negitivity towards others in which case I have not. I do not speak for my customers or supporters. That was all, the rest of the book was just me venting a little I guess, I tend to get long winded when I type.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT


[QUOTE=rasto;2149511]all the time the same story when someone tells something about BT's dies. I know he is a NRA life member, I know he is forum sponsor, I know everybody is satisfied but I will tell you news the Earth is not rotating around him and it is not even flat.
The point is "swaging thread" is all about him and everything else is a garbage, useless, worthless ....
QUOTE]

[u.p. north]

I can agree with BT Sniper on what he says. He speakes 100% the truth on all this. I myself have been machining for much longer than Brian. But shops of this sort are not a big money maker,it is a labor of love in a way. I myself could move from my area and make more money, but I love where I live and that is that. I have just ventured into making dies and it is alot of work trust me. I have looked at other ways to get the cost down but I have yet to find a way. Please nobody should be roasting anyone on here. I think most Vendors on here can say most of this is a not get rich venture. With the demand the way it is that is why I decided to step to the plate and become a Vendor Sponsor. Also I would say 99.999% of you guys and gals are eh okay, and then the few that should keep there traps shut. I have a few people that have been waiting for to long for some dies and I am working on getting there stuff to them.Thank You guys had to vent a little....
Thank You,
U.P. North


As there seems to be a bit of mention about myself and my products latly in this thread I would like to simply mention a few things if I may,

There is a lot to be learned and a lot to be said about being in business for one's self. There is much expense and an incredible amount of labor involved with making a quality set of swage dies. In it for the money? Well I would like to think so but seriously, do the Corbins live a life of luxury? Blackmon? he was a doctor (eyes or teeth wasn't it?) and now he is retired correct? and making dies on the side? point being....... probably not exactly in it for the money or a living any longer.

I was lucky (if you could say that) that I had a little inharitence money that I was able to survive the start up of a new business as well as a understanding wife with a modest income to support us, otherwise I would not have ventured into this swage die business as deep as I have or even survived as a business.

After all was said and done last year in my 4th year of making swage dies, I profited less then a mimimum wage job. I could have been a fry cook with benifits but I choose to make swage dies because it intrests me and I have learned to be fairly good at it after all this time, cost and effort. It allows me to be home taking care of my family and tucking my girls in every night. When it comes down to what's important in life many of you with family may understand this and those without soon will, that money isn't everything.

As for cost.... well yes, it is expensive. I too thought Corbin was expensive till I ventured into the business........ now? well I think either of the Corbin's dies are a bargin with everything that is involved. Still, take the neccessary tooling and dies needed to make 22 cal bullets..... 4 dies, a core mold and an ejection system for $1200, seems expensive sure.... yet averaged out it is only $200 per item. How many hours you suppose it takes for each component to be made? Material, tooling, learning curve, carbide reamers, second sets of carbide reamers because your first set was too big, or too small, Professional heat treatment, shipping back and forth to the heat treat plants, polishing, potential lost dies or reamers in transit, etc. etc. etc..... and have the dies turn out perfect within a few tenths, 0.0001! Would you do it? could you do it? for minimum wage? Does Lee? RCBS? Any of the big names? No! Probably a reason for that you suppose? How much did that AR-15 cost that you'll be shooting these bullets from? has the cost of those guns or components gone up since the start of the new year? Yep! Has my prices? Nope! My prices have stayed the same since November of last year.

If you ask me I think we all have it pretty good with atleast 4 different manufactures of swage dies to choose from. I have told many potential customers that no matter who's dies they choose they will most certainly be happy with their purchase. People ask me why my dies seem so expensive compared to Blackmon, I think they should be asking how Blackmon can do it for so much less. How much longer do you suppose he will continue to offer his dies and/or at that price? Even CH-4d used to offer their swage die sets for around $125 but not any longer if at all. No one is getting any yonger and prices rarly go down.

Yes this is a great site and eveyone should feel free to post whatever they wish. There is certainly no better time to make your own bullets no matter what or who's dies you use to make them so long as one keeps it safe. We should all strive to keep it a great site and forum to learn and share, after all even those of us that now experience the freedom of making our own bullets, some for many years, where once also dependant on commercial bullets and interested in making our own.

As for everything supposibly being about me? Well I certainly hope not, I simply post more here then Blackmon or either of the Corbins do :), wouldn't it be great if they posted here too? but they don't, yet I will spend countless hours on this site to help out as much as I can. and as far as any negitive comments that may have been said or mentioned? not from me! I am not one to speak down upon anyone or any set of dies. Many of you have read my praise for other's swage die products, CH-4d! Gave them so much business they could no longer keep up, RCE with his Sea girt press, WHAT A BARGIN and now suddenly it is not on his web site any longer? BTSniper monopoly? I would hope it is quite the opposite as I continue to spread the word and introduce as many as I can to this site as well as making their own bullets no matter who's dies they use. Sure there may be those that have strong opinions about one set of dies or another but it is not my words they are using to show their support, for or against anyone.

Yet there have been those that have been burned, ask anyone that invested money in Coltec. Those that speak their mind may have strong fealings when it comes to such maters and do not wish to see anyone taken advantage of again on this site wether it is their money or not. I would hope and think this has lead us to a more stringent set of guidlines for the next or future vendor sponsored providers of any potential swage dies on this site. It is by no means a BTSniper monopoly. I simply post a lot here with the support and backing of the site owners. I work hard at offering the best products at the highest qulality that I am capible of, keeping customers informed and keeping them satisfied the best I can, pure and simple professionalism! The same professional service I provided as a flight instructor with an FAA Gold Seal CFII certificit, the same professional service I provided as a airline captain and now the same professional service I strive to provide as a vendor sponsored quality swage die provider on this site that still has a lot of years left in the business.

I'm sure I have strayed from the OP content of this thread so I will politly step off my soap box now and get back to work but do ask yourself if you can imagine all the work that goes into these expensive dies and be thankful there are still a few options to choose from and no matter who's dies one chooses or uses, chances are you/they are going to be very happy with your/their purchase and ability to free yourself/themself from those that attempt to regulate our shooting needs.

As always I say good shooting and Swage On!

BT

p.s. I claim to be pretty good at making swage dies, not spelling :)

[newcastter]

What the hell does anything you said have to do with this thread??? If you want to boast your product or someone else's you have your own sticky that nobody looks at...I manage a multi million dollar buisness (not own) and I would be fired on the spot if I tried to sell my product by a "feel sorry for me and you should be thankful for me advance" To me its sickening and discusting and if you are suffering so much than shut your buisness down and tend to your family or how bout this get off the forum and fill your orders.
Now I understand with getting backed up especially now but what does your comment have to do with Kaine dies? Do you own a set? Your work will sell it self you dont need to jump in the battle it only makes you look desparate.


I can agree with BT Sniper on what he says. He speakes 100% the truth on all this. I myself have been machining for much longer than Brian. But shops of this sort are not a big money maker,it is a labor of love in a way. I myself could move from my area and make more money, but I love where I live and that is that. I have just ventured into making dies and it is alot of work trust me. I have looked at other ways to get the cost down but I have yet to find a way. Please nobody should be roasting anyone on here. I think most Vendors on here can say most of this is a not get rich venture. With the demand the way it is that is why I decided to step to the plate and become a Vendor Sponsor. Also I would say 99.999% of you guys and gals are eh okay, and then the few that should keep there traps shut. I have a few people that have been waiting for to long for some dies and I am working on getting there stuff to them.Thank You guys had to vent a little....
Thank You,
U.P. North

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Alright everyone...just take a deep breath and relax. No need to bicker over such trivial things.

I thought we all got over that when we graduated the 7th grade...

[newcastter]

Do you have anything to benefit the Danr swaging thread or do you just want to dig?


Alright everyone...just take a deep breath and relax. No need to bicker over such trivial things.

I thought we all got over that when we graduated the 7th grade...

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Everybody just needs to cool it. Period.

[newcastter]

Everybody just needs to cool it. Period.
What are you talking about? No one has been threatened or even accused it has been a discussion that some have chosen to take as there own defense against themselves.
You are in no position to make demands with the expectation of period.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Ok, your are right. You are probably always right because you run a multi-million dollar business. I forgot how "informative" your posts have been (post #376). If you don't have anything nice to say you shouldn't say anything at all. PERIOD.

Now, with that being said, I will remove my self when I wish. If you dislike my opinion, remove yourself. I am finished with you sir. Have a great evening!

[xfoxofshogo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2gHDc39ANo
the new Kane dies core mold we have been working on. here is the video we just finished prototyping it last night. the new mold will allow you to swap out 1 part to make other caliber cores. the drop out weight of the cores is 68 grains. adding a 22 rimfire cup, the total weight is around 75 or so. depending on the cup.

we will be including this with the 224 swage die sets. we'll also be selling them as well.

[featherhead]

80305803068030780308


Here are the 63gr Kaine bullets finished and polished. I ran them in the rotary tumbler with comet and brasso in ceramic beads. They cleaned up nice. .099 metplat. The bullet on the far right folded a lip over. That's something that would need to checked for prior to loading. I noticed a tendency for this to happen despite proper annealing. The polishing process softened the serrations around the edge of the jacket. Swaging is an aweful lot of work. I have my first thousand jackets charged with cores ready for seating. Then onward and upward with pointing and sizing. I'm glad I'm a repetition junkie.

All in all it looks like the Kaine pointing die has the ability to drop a 63gr full fill tip right into the tray with little more than a good polishing needed. Now that I see the effect of the ceramic pellets on the lead core I may be able to tweak out a couple more grains and let the lead protrude a small amount knowing that the media will knock it down just below the jacket rim.

ACTUALLY I have a batch of bullets in the tumbler today. I'm trying for more shine and will post another shot later. I think the ceramic pellets burnish the serration on the jacket and soften the lead in the tip.

[featherhead]

80309

Kaine projectiles first test, Albeit 40 yds at the indoor range. 18" bbl 1-8 twist.
Feeding reliability was 100% I was trying to balance the gun on flimsy plywood table on crumby bags. I'll go for 100 yds soon on a solid bench with a new Bulls Bag rest.

[featherhead]

8037080369

Latest rendition ...... I call them "Black Ice" 63 gr full fill to the tip, on Kaine dies of course.

[NSP64]

I like my kaine dies.
I anneal, deerim,sonic with lemishine.
I cast cores of w/w, then heat the jacket till the cores melt into jacket.
I then point form, polish in corn cob with nufinish.
I shoot over 25 gr of 4895 for 2700 fps.