HP'ing Your Own Mold without a Full Machine Shop

[Rangefinder]

Over the past year or so, I've been refining a process of Hollow-Pointing my own molds. Being a family man with kids, my shooting budget is relatively small to the point of non-existent most of the time. All this means is that I don't have much int he way of specialized equipment dedicated to this type of thing. What I DO have is a stubborn streak a mile long and a general trend toward creative-thinking and problem-solving on the fly. So after successfully converting several 2-cavity molds into molds with one useful cavity and one that doesn't even drop something that will pass as a fishing weight, I've managed to come up with a pretty reliable method for HP'ing my own molds.

I've done most of my mold modifications on Lee molds for 2 reasons: First, because so many have said that you can't HP a Lee mold, particularly a Lee 2-Cavity mold. Yes, you can, but it runs the risk of shortening the life of the mold a bit. Second, because if I'm going to screw up a mold, I want to screw up something that will only cost me $20 to replace--not $60 or more.

So, on to what you'll need:

--The mold you have chosen to possibly destroy (I look at it this way so if I get it wrong, I'm not disappointed and if I get it right I can be rightfully proud of myself).
--A drill press. (mine is a small bench-top I used for wood working originally--nothing special.)
--A vice for said drill press and clamps to lock it into place once aligned.
--A brass/bronze bushing with an outside diameter as close to the mold's lube groove diameter as possible.
--aluminum tape is helpful (beagling tape for those of us here that do it).
--A couple metal files
--A sharp drill bit that fits the inside diameter of the bushing.
--An aluminum spacer that fits the I/D of the bushing if the hole needs to be considerably smaller that the bushing I/D. The chosen drill bit then needs to match the I/D of the spacer.
--A nail, bolt, hinge pin, or any other piece of metal round-stock slightly larger in diameter than the bit you intend to drill your HP cavity with.
--Wet/Dry sand paper in several grits--I use 220, then 600, and polish with 1500.
--lapping compound
--Probably a few more things that I'll remember in the writing of this and then mention as an "Oh--yah, and this will be useful" type or thing.

The mold: for the purposes of giving a few visuals, I'm using a Lee 6-banger SWC for my .40 S&W that I most recently decided to try not to screw up. 6-cav Lee molds are far easier to work with than the 2-cav because they don't have alignment pins to monkey with. However, the 2-cav molds can be done by simply tapping the alignment pin out a little so the hole for the HP pin will clear it. Do this carefully with a dowel or something that will not gouge the mold when it slips off the pin, which I promise it will several times. It should look something like this on a 2-cav: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/hpmold002-1.jpg

For my .40 I first measured the lube groove diameter and came up with .392 as dropped. It just so happens that a 1/4" bronze bushing has an O/D of .385--so a couple layers of aluminum tape brought it right up to a snug fit, as shown.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF6410.jpg

This is the really important part to the whole process, and I can't stress it enough. Most HP attempts go really bad because the centering is off. Once that happens, there really is no easy way to fix it. The bushing not only aligns the hole to be drilled with the center, but helps ensure the hole is drilled parallel with the bullet cavity. It has to fit snug with the mold completely closed. From here, check the fit of the drill bit and spacers if desiring a hole smaller than the bushing I/D. In reality, I went with a smaller hole, so I DID use a spacer. The problem is that when I went back to take photos for this write-up, I couldn't find the spacer used so I can't supply you with the dimensions. For photo purposes, assume that you should have a snug but movable fit on the inside of the bushing, the spacer if used, and the bit chosen with NO slop---I repeat-- NO SLOP. http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF6411.jpg

Next is the semi-easy part. Lock everything into the drill press with the vice, c-clamps, etc. Check, double-check, and then re-check all your alignment and leveling. Once everything is good, drip a little cutting oil into the cavity and SLOWLY drill your hole. You MUST make sure before you ever turn the drill press on that everything is locked into position. If anything moves one iota, your going to be off-center or off angle, or both. That scraps the entire rest of the project.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF6412.jpg


Alright, lets assume you got the hole drilled correctly. It should look something like the photo above showing the mold open and the bushing in place--with a hole right through the bottom of the mold. Take any measurements you'd like to verify you did it right or eyeball it and nod your head. It's time for the next step---the pin.

The pin fabrication is pretty easy. It needs to be a touch larger in diameter than the hole you drilled in order to finish it down to the correct diameter, and long enough to reach into the bullet cavity while having enough sticking out the bottom to attach a handle of sorts. Other than that, use whatever is handy. For several, including photo purposes for this, I used a large nail. http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF6414.jpg

Now the creative part---turning your drill press into a vertical lathe. Chuck your chosen pin stock into the press and have at it with files, carbide cutters, whatever you have on hand to rough out the point and take down the diameter ALMOST to the hole size.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF6415.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF6416.jpg

Once I start liking what I see shape-wise, I use a piece of hacksaw blade to finish cutting off the nail head, and start polishing the pin down to correct dimensions with the wet sanding/polishing paper. Note--in the photos, it looks like everything is still. It is in fact all done with the press running. I figure this would be obvious to the common-sense individual, but figured it should probably be mentioned anyway.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF6417.jpg

When it's all polished out and has the desired shape while being just a couple thousandths OVER the diameter of the hole you drilled in the mold, grab the mold again. Lock it into the press vice upside-down. Line it up with the new pin that should still be chucked into the press. Apply a little dab of lapping compound or metal polish to the pin and "lap" it into the mold. When you're done with this, you should have a pin that fits snug, fits straight, and doesn't allow flash, but can still be turned inside of and removed from the mold when it'd completely closed tight.

Last but not least is attaching a handle to the new pin and setting depth. This is open to your own discretion. As you can see, I've used wooden drawer pulls more than once. They work good. Little metal tension clips are successful for depth setting. But my latest notion that I haven't even tried yet is to set the handle long, mark my depth with a sharpy marker, chuck the pin back into the drill press, and cut a slot for a C-clip. This is the direction I would recommend, but I would suggest experimenting with your depth a little to see what you like best.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF6418.jpg

Boil and scrub your mold, same for the new pin, and take it for a test-drive.
As shown in another thread, here's the results of the mold I'd used to do the write-up here.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF6292.jpg
If there are any questions or there needs to be further clarification on anything, please let me know and I'll add what I can as I can.
Happy Casting!

Rangefinder

[Beerd]

Nice write up.
I have a 358-158RF that I can't wait to try this on.
..

[mooman76]

Good writeup. I attempted to HP a mould last year but it didn't work out. I was trying to make permanent pins so I wouldn't have to remove them but the boolit wouldn't come out. I also aquired a Lee HP mould cheap that someone ground the pin off of. What I don't know but I was thinking of returning it to HP statis.

[Southern Son]

That is brilliant, Rangefinder.

[Swede44mag]

Great write-up should be made a sticky.

[plmitch]

Great write up Rangefinder! I'd be willing to give this a try with an old Lee mold that was given to me recently. If I do try it, I'll probably have a few questions for you.

[smoked turkey]

Rangefinder: Very good report and well explained. Good for lots of pictures for those like me that might be more visual. Thanks. This is going to get the creative juices going in a lot of us,

[-06]

Nice job. Was asking my machinist bud recently why such could not be done and he declined to try. Think I will do it myself with your great write up and pics. That bushing is a stroke of genius. I have used similiar "bushings" before to center drill broken off bolts so an "easy out" could be used. Works good on axle flange bolts.

[Casting Timmy]

Great job, there's a lot you can do with patience and a couple tools. Nice write up and sharing.

[Shooter6br]

I see a winter project luming on the horizon!! thanks GREAT INFO. i can turn my old Lee molds i dont use into something new and exciting!!

[Fishman]

Awesome Rangefinder. Definitely should be a sticky.

[Rangefinder]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feed-back. What I really love about this place is--well, US. ;) We, as a group, take this crazy obsession to levels that most can't even begin to understand with hours and hours of trying to explain even simple concepts (according to us). But here, we're right at home. I'm fully expecting and looking forward to others adding to and improving on the techniques I've come to so far. Can't wait to see where this goes with all of you!

[Salmon-boy]

Ever since you posted about writing this up, I've been waiting to read it! Isn't it amazing what you can do with a bit of know-how and a drill press?

Great job Rangefinder!

[Von Dingo]

Great post Rangefinder. I need more projects :lol:. I completly agree with you about how great this site is. Most people think that I'm nutz. Here, not even close to an extreme case.

[Rangefinder]

Most people think that I'm nutz. Here, not even close to an extreme case.

:D The phrase I hear most is "I'm sure glad we're friends... We ARE friends, right?" LOL

[edsmith]

Really great post, I made it into a pdf file and printed it out, it makes a nice booklet, the photos are great. when I need a drill bit to be spot on in a peice of alu., I use a brad point drill bit, they work well in alu. :goodpost:

[Von Dingo]

:D The phrase I hear most is "I'm sure glad we're friends... We ARE friends, right?" LOL

But if you devoted this much thought to a bunch of whiny steroid addled millionaires, who don't care one whit about you, while getting blackout drunk, but don't own any safety glasses, or how to use a screwdriver, you're one of the guys?

Personally, I'd rather know, or know of guys like Ya'll, who know how to use a screwdriver more that one way.

[EMC45]

Brilliant write up! I too am a father of 3 (3, 5, and 8) with a stay at home Mom/Teacher that homeschools my kids. disposable income is an issue as well here at the house. Nice to see others are working the old brain figuring stuff out on the cheap. I take frugality as a compliment.

[Boolseye]

Excellent, rangefinder. I will be spending some serious time with this post over the winter.
looks like a sticky waiting to happen!!

[Freightman]

Thank you Rangfinder! will be trying that soon. I built four AK47's from the cheap kits that were around years ago, with a cheap HF drill press and some hand tools. Amazing what you can do if you think you can.

[MtGun44]

Well done, sir!

Bill

[phaessler]

I just did this one today,,,,

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss257/sharps20000/13firstcasting.jpg

Started with a $10 single cavity Ideal 452460, and after two hours.. waaaalaaaaaa...

Will need to make more and test them, but so far so good, drop at 190gn with WW.

Pete

[Rangefinder]

Oh, those are some pretty boolits... :D :D :D The addiction continues!

[1tonye]

Pretty cool Rangefinder, I can't wait to try that on some of mine!! Thanks for the info!!
8-)

[Willbird]

Nicely done. Even WITH a full machine shop creative thinking outside the box is an asset :-).

I wonder how consistent Lee molds are on the ID at the lower part of the TL grooves ? An enterprising person could make and sell sets of bushings made of say 4140 pre heat treated steel.

Bill

[Rangefinder]

I wonder how consistent Lee molds are on the ID at the lower part of the TL grooves ? An enterprising person could make and sell sets of bushings made of say 4140 pre heat treated steel.

Now THAT is an interesting idea.... ;) I think I like it!

[472x1B/A]

Thank you Rangefinder. This is a idea well done. Very budget minded in these times.

[phaessler]

Well I used a brass plumbing fitting for a "drill bushing". In the iron mold , I was counting on the crush fit effect when I closed the two halves up around it. The thru hole size on the fitting was 0.185" so, 3/16" was the was to go. And pins are plentiful with "dead" drill bits handy.
I think a steel drill bushing would be nice but, if it turned in an aluminum mold while it was being drilled, could be big mess. Drill bushings in bronze are a little more forgiving, although the commercial sizing is expensive. The plumbing fitting was free and I cheaped out on mine.

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss257/sharps20000/1thestart.jpg
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss257/sharps20000/2bushingcrushfit.jpg
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss257/sharps20000/3drillbushing.jpg
http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss257/sharps20000/4drilled.jpg

Pete

[imashooter2]

Seems to me you could eliminate the need for a bushing pretty easily. Use a drill rod, wrapped in tape if necessary, to set the center. Clamp the work piece to the table (with the rod still in the cavity), then swap out the drill rod for your through drill.

[pistolman44]

Great job guys. I have a drill press but don't have a old mold that I would like to try this on. It sure is tempting.

[Buddy]

I've got some brass stock. I wonder if it would work for the bushing? I thought about working it down to size in the drill press after drilling a hole for the drill bit. Too soft?

[Willbird]

Seems to me you could eliminate the need for a bushing pretty easily. Use a drill rod, wrapped in tape if necessary, to set the center. Clamp the work piece to the table (with the rod still in the cavity), then swap out the drill rod for your through drill.

From years and years of using drill bushings, they MAKE the drill go where it is supposed to, the drill will bend and flex if need be but still go where it is supposed to go. It takes a LOT better machine and setup to drill a hole without a guide bushing.

[phaessler]

Ok found a 452374 at the gun show and couldnt help myself this morning....

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss257/sharps20000/452374HP/DSC05796_1.jpg

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss257/sharps20000/452374HP/DSC05803_1.jpg

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss257/sharps20000/452374HP/DSC05833_1.jpg

[geargnasher]

That's pretty freakin' good, Phaessler.

Gear

[Rangefinder]

Man Phaessler, THAT is a job to be proud of on that mold! Gorgeous looking boolits ya got there! Of course you realize we're gonna be anxious to see the range report soon ;)!

[geargnasher]

I'll bet they look like this:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20388&d=1267418624

Gear

[a.squibload]

Gear, here's a sound effect to go with that pic:

SPLAT!

Nice work you guys. I suppose it would be just as easy to make a second pin
for a flat nose, so you could cast either style. Wife just got a LCP 380,
might be nice to cast HPs for that, but that's the mold I use for cores for swaging.

Hmm, that would give 2 possible core weights from that mold as well.

Dangit, when I get a minute that is...

[phaessler]

Man Phaessler, THAT is a job to be proud of on that mold! Gorgeous looking boolits ya got there! Of course you realize we're gonna be anxious to see the range report soon ;)!

Seems now that I have no time, give me a week or two. Work sure can be in the way.



I had to modify the pin though, I was getting flash around the ogive/hollow, and it wasnt visually acceptable.

gearnasher, now that is perfect. I will have to learn how to use softer alloys probably to get mine to work. Any suggestions?

[nanuk]

I am in awe at the quality of work you guys do with basic hand tools and home machines

the best I ever did was make an aluminum end for a portable air pump

you know the kind you carry in your car, and plastic end has a lever that locks onto the valve stem, using an expanding grommet? and break the first time you NEED it at -40*!!!

I drilled and filed until a new rubber grommet held tight. the pump lasted another 5 years or so.

[a.squibload]

Move to Antarctica where it's nice & warm!:kidding:

[Rangefinder]

Awe, come on squib... -40 is a nice day in Butte MT in January. ;) Gotta love those hometown memories--I grew up in the Elk Park valley north of Butte. We took the top spot for coldest place in the lower 48 one winter with -92. Now THAT was a little chilly. ;)

nanuk>> if it wasn't for my redneck engineering skills, I'd be lost---on the other hand, I'll likely blow myself up one of these days. ;) It would appear there are a few here who can relate. :D


I will have to learn how to use softer alloys probably to get mine to work. Any suggestions?
pheassler>> try a 50/50 dead soft to ww with a touch of tin.

[a.squibload]

I was working in Fraser CO one night when it was -20º, that's about as low
as I want it to go!

:hijack:....uh, sorry, back to topic?

[JIMinPHX]

Awe, come on squib... -40 is a nice day in Butte MT in January. ;) Gotta love those hometown memories--I grew up in the Elk Park valley north of Butte. We took the top spot for coldest place in the lower 48 one winter with -92. Now THAT was a little chilly. ;)


Don't worry, Al Gore will save you with his global warming myth, just like he's saving NYC right now. The snow in Central Park isn't supposed to be much more than an inch deep at present. It's only a little more than a foot deep north west of there. Only about 3.2 million people are reported to be without power in that area right now, due to the snow storm. This shouldn't surprise anyone very much. After all, it is nearly Halloween. This late in the season it should be much colder.:roll:

[Sonnypie]

Winter of '78/'79 Gas Hills, Wyoming.
60 below zero, 60 mile an hour winds.
Wind chill factor was -108 degrees. Had to be calculated because it was off the chart.
Froze the diesel in the mining equipment.
Us electricians could work about 10 minutes out of an hour. The balance was in front of salamander kerosene fired forced blower heaters inside the building. And even at that it was sub-zero inside.
Dam, what a night that was!

Brass monkeys were nowhere to be found.

Over 70% of the wildlife froze to death that winter in the blizzards.

Hell froze over.

[geargnasher]

+1 on 50/50 clip-on WW and soft lead (like roofing lead) with a touch of tin for malleability (1% addtional should be plenty, don't "overtin" the diluted WW by adding more tin than total antimony percentage).

A mix of mostly sticky weights (including the harder lead alloy stickies that are painted) and a little bit of clip-on alloy with 1% additional tin works well too. Most stickies average 6-7 bhn at my house, and 75% with 25% clip-ons and 1% tin get to about 8-9 bhn depending on the particular mix.

Either of these mixes will shoot accurately to 850 fps in .45 ACP and expand fully without disintegrating. In smaller calibers or guns with higher pressures, a tougher alloy will be needed both to preserve accuracy and prevent over-expansion, and a smaller HP pin might be needed too.

One more thing, Phaessler, you might make a step on your HP pin to coincide with the tip of the boolit nose and fade the taper into it to give the boolit noses a little more fortitude to handle the rigors of recoil in the mag and feeding without rolling the mouth inward too much.

Gear

[phaessler]

Thanks gearnasher, been wrapped up on a home project, and might be out of comission, I insisted on screwing my self to the porch framing,, ouch, worse was I had to unscrew it too. But none theworse, I will look ath the pin and see if I can get a picture up.

Pete

[kbstenberg]

You guys came along at the write time.
I have a question on the material an the process for making your HP pins. Rangefinder In your pictures you showed several different types of metals to use for pin material. Do any of them do a better job? Did you find that after heating, the pins changed dia. enough to cause a problem?
I ask because. I have the penta pins for 2 of Mihec molds that I would like to reshape into more of a cup point.
Subject change
Rangefinder Your pictures gave me another good idea. The picture that you showed, where you were making the HP pin shape. I never considered putting the item to be shaped along the side of the DP table. That must make the item to be shaped much more stable. You could even C-clamp a peace of wood on the table up close an personal to the item that needs grinding.
I am working on making the powder meters for my Little Dandy dispenser. I think you have solved one of my problems.
Meany Thanks Kevin

[Rangefinder]

Kevin,

In terms of thermal volume expansion of metals and alloys, I'll admit my engineering math is a little rusty--someone still getting paid to do that could give you more precise numbers on how to use the equations. Technically, if you know the alloy or primary base element, you can plug in a coefficient to an equation and pretty accurately figure the amount of volume expansion under given temperatures. BUT, since we're not building a quantum computer, I'll go so far as my weekend brain can see fit. Of the typical alloys and materials used for our molds (IF I remember my thermal properties correctly), steel expands the least, then brass, then aluminum the most. I cut my pins out of steel, and most of my molds are aluminum. When the molds are cold the pin is an easy slip-fit. Once up to casting temp, the mold expands enough to make the pin a tight fit. A couple times I've had to polish the pin down a little because the pin slot expanded enough that the mold wouldn't close completely and gave me fins. The reason I work the pin rather than the mold is that cutting a new pin to fit is easy, but once the mold is enlarged it can't be reversed.

As to using the press table---I use it as a rest, but I don't let it actually contact the piece I'm working. Tooling free-hand doesn't work out well--vibration, tool chatter, etc. Using the table edge as a tool rest makes it more stable and absorbs the vibration better, lessening chatter and resulting gouges.

Hope this helps, and welcome to the addiction!

[DLCTEX]

I bought an Ideal mould-452-423 single cav. from a fellow member with the intent to hollow point it myself. I figured if I botched it I would only be out $15. After receiving it and finding it to be in mint condition, possibly never used, I decided it deserved to be sent to Buckshot for a professional job. Now I'll find another to do myself, maybe one of my Lee 2 cav.

[saz]

I have a Lee 255 that is the perfect canidate! Gotta try it when I get home.

[Hang Fire]

Very neat, I am going to hollow point some of my Lee molds and your proces is sound.

[chevylock01]

Nice idea. Looks like I will be modifying some moulds as soon as I can get my reloading room set up. Been married 8 years and haven't had time to do a lot on that room. But it IS started. Sometime back I bought a Unimat 3 lathe/drill press/mill. Been chomping at the Bit to fire that thing up. Here is a REAL good reason to fire it up. Thanks

[XWrench3]

THANKS! i have a lee mold that i already have messed up, so it will provide a good experimental mold to practice on. if i get it right on that one, then i can go on to several other good molds.

[Rangefinder]

So I've been playing with some different powders again, and found a load that my .40 HP (the one used for this write-up) REEEALLY likes...

With 50/50 alloy finishing right at 165gr and loaded over 9.4gr 2400 and set at OAL 1.135 and fired at 10yds. into water jugs... THIS happens:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF9636.jpg

[Michael J. Spangler]

this thread is killing me.

i picked up a lyman ideal 358156 last week and i'm dying to HP it
what size HP pin do you think should use?

[Rangefinder]

Ohhhhhh, the excitement is building in Rangefinder's shop tonight. I traded one of our fine members for a 148gr. Wad Cutter for my .357 Black Hawk. And you guessed it--I'm HP'ing one of the cavities. :D Just bored and polished it for a pin tonight. Gotta turn out a couple pins I wanna play with over the next day or two, then it's playtime. No photos yet, but I promise--they ARE coming! Stay tuned!

One more thing I want to add... I'm seeing quite a few guys jumping on this crazy train. How many have tried it? Lets see some PHOTOS!!!

[a.squibload]

Rangefinder,

if they didn't have that HP your good-lookin' boolits wouldn't get squished like that!

OK, how about: stop shooting at water jugs!:p

I'm a little short on molds but have been reading this thread, good stuff.
If I can't find a deal somewhere I might have to buy a Lee or two just to try this out.

[jkpq45]

I have a Lee 340 grain, .458-diameter .45-70 mold that this process might be useful on--my only potential firearms to use this boolit in are .45ACP and an Uberti .45LC, so I need to knock some weight out of it!

Plus, who can resist making little lead-alloy mushrooms?

[40Super]

Remember, even though the bullet would be lighter from the hp, it is still the same length as the heavy bullet so seating debth, thus powder charge, will stay the same.

[Rangefinder]

Remember, even though the bullet would be lighter from the hp, it is still the same length as the heavy bullet so seating debth, thus powder charge, will stay the same.

Technically, surface area vs. weight deviation means the lighter boolit of equal surface contact offers less resistance, thus decreasing pressures of equal charge--meaning charge increase by weight ratio of weight decrease is necessary for equal pressures within the burn rate of the powder chosen... ;) But we're all following the common practice of load it normal and ladder it up accordingly. :D


if they didn't have that HP your good-lookin' boolits wouldn't get squished like that!

OK, how about: stop shooting at water jugs!

Squib--I LIKE squishy boolits! Since my water jugs held milk previously, are you going to call me lactose-intolerant? LOL

[Trail Finder]

You guys just lost me.
Are you saying that you would use the same amount of powder even though the weight of the bullet has changed? I had the understanding that you would load for a lighter bullet once you decreased the weight with the HP mod.

And yes once again you guys have poisened my mind. I can't wait to get my mould in to the mill.

[a.squibload]

Squib--...Since my water jugs held milk previously, are you going to call me lactose-intolerant? LOL

Nope, but you might be a plasticphobe!
I like blowin' up stuff full of water. Beverage cans work pretty good.
"Reactive targets" on the cheap.

Boolit weight/powder charge...
If you make a boolit lighter with a HP you COULD leave the charge the same,
depending on how fast it gets to. Pressure would be reduced.
Or go for economy, reduce the charge and have the same velocity, probably what
I would do.
Either way, HPs just look good!

[Rangefinder]

Nope, but you might be a plasticphobe!
I like blowin' up stuff full of water. Beverage cans work pretty good.
"Reactive targets" on the cheap.

Boolit weight/powder charge...
If you make a boolit lighter with a HP you COULD leave the charge the same,
depending on how fast it gets to. Pressure would be reduced.
Or go for economy, reduce the charge and have the same velocity, probably what
I would do.
Either way, HPs just look good!

Plasticphobe---I LIKE it!!
Personally, I consider it "going Green"... I recycle those empty milk jugs into other more useful objects---targets!

HOWEVER---to answer Trail Finder... Look through your load books. Lighter boolit can take heavier charge. Reason is less resistance due to less weight. Lighter boolit with same charge is less pressure. A stiffer charge is acceptable and thus allows for higher velocity under equal pressures. For "economy", go to a lighter charge with a faster powder, Red Dot is a good friend of mine... :D To clarify, going with the same charge as a solid for a HP modified is actually a reduced load for that boolit, and therefore considered "safe" practice. To load for a lighter boolit is actually increasing the charge according to book weight, but not according to boolit. Rule of thumb--start with the low and work up.

Squib---HP's ROCK! :D And they look good, too! LOL

[40Super]

I don't know if I'm fully right on this or not but the heavier bullets are longer and generally seat deeper into the case, thus reducing case volume,thus increasing pressures. That is what I go by, the resistance is going to be the same(or very close)as the heavier because of the longer bearing surface. Thats just how I've always gone by, kind of like when a manuals load for a certain bullet is reduced when you have to seat it deeper than the manuals, due to chambering issues or short throat(just as an example), why because of less case volume,right?
I do the normal work up so either way is ok.

[jkpq45]

Do we have a consensus on how to load a 340 grain hollow-pointed (and now say, 260-grain) boolit vs. a boolit that started life as a 260-grain boolit?

Should powder charge be similar? I understand the caution about seating depth and potentially increased pressures due to that metric.

[Rangefinder]

Without getting lengthy and off-topic, we're BOTH correct. We typically worry less with cast boolits as they tend to be lower pressure than jacketed in most cases anyway. To coincide with your argument (though I don't see us as arguing at all--rather making two valid points in parallel :D ), on cartridge I load for with jacketed is the FN5.7x28. I wish I had a buck for every time I heard .40S&W was a difficult, touchy cartridge to reload because I see it posted somewhere at least once a week. It's what I load the most of, it's what I experiment the most with, and it's an absolute dream to load for compared to the 5.7x28. For those unfamiliar, it spits a 40gr .224 out of a handgun platform upwards of 2000fps and pressures consistent with a rifle platform. In this tiny little cartridge, a seating depth change of .001 effects pressure by 200psi or more and, depending on the powder, a couple tenths of a grain is the difference between a functioning action and a trip to the ER.

Personally, (with the exception of 5.7) seat to chamber, or seat to magazine, whichever is more applicable. In either case it is working in reverse of the pressure spike related to seating depth, as it tends to be much longer than a book listed OAL minimum. Of course, it also helps that we're using cast rather than jacketed, which all by itself reduces pressure because lead is much easier to push down the barrel. Though I wouldn't necessarily suggest everyone try it, but in the tests I've conducted, loading a lead bullet with a similar weight and profile as a listed jacketed bullet is typically a safe starting point when no load data for cast is available so long as the jacketed pressures listed for the load are consistent or below the max rating for the alloy you are using. The short version--a cast bullet loaded with jacketed data of same weight listing 26000psi and a velocity of 1100fps will generally yield upwards of 8-10% less on both pressure and velocity.

Wow--what a ramble... Back on topic!

Turned out the first pin profile yesterday. Should have some test loads and expansion results to post by the weekend! :D

[Rangefinder]

jkpq45>> Sorry not to have responded on this sooner. The simple version--load it as the original 340gr to begin with and work up from there.

[40Super]

Rangfinder: if you want some penta, hex ,or even square pin tips for your hp ,I run cnc's and can shape the ends. I'm going to be doing a 135gr NOE mould ,once my GB M-P gets here. I'm getting extra pins for that and should be able to machine (ya I know not by hand, But...) the NOE to accept them. I will be setting up anyway to shape those pins so it wouldn't take much to do a couple more.

[Rangefinder]

40>> we just may have to do some talking further about that! I'm liking the notion!

[Trail Finder]

What if you start with an allen wrench then take down the area that contacts the mold.

[Rangefinder]

The problem I can see with that is the size of the point needs to finish smaller than the shaft of the spud. Sonny has been tinkering with an idea similar to this though, looking at various hex and star drivers on a round shaft. Good possibilities there.

All right--updates to progress. I INTENDED to go cast a few this morning so I could get them ready to test this weekend--then found out I'm out of propane. So I'll have to go get my bottle filled. In the meantime, here's what the mold looks like with the first pin.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF0915.jpg

Kept it shallow--I'm estimating it should drop at about 140gr now. Shouldered the pin at the point to keep a clean nose and then double-radius to the point down to the base of the front drive band with the step at the crimp groove. I'm looking at this one to be a rapid expansion .38Spl boolit with low to moderate velocities. In a full .357 load it's gonna rip the whole nose off most likely. But as soon as I get my propane filled I'll see what happens.

[a.squibload]

The problem I can see with that is the size of the point needs to finish smaller than the shaft of the spud. Sonny has been tinkering with an idea similar to this though, looking at various hex and star drivers on a round shaft. Good possibilities there.

Maybe phillips screwdrivers of different sizes?

[Trail Finder]

Maybe phillips screwdrivers of different sizes?

I like that idea. I'm going mold shopping!

[Rangefinder]

Well, work has been trying to kill me lately, so time hasn't been something I have in excess. BUT, I finally got to cast a few with the new HP'd wadcutter. I'm kinda thinking these will expand a little... :D I set the pin a little deeper than originally planned so the cavity would reach the top of the second drive band and open the mouth a little more. These are the first four dropped, and I'm loving what I see. Water jug and wet-pack test coming soon!

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF0937.jpg

[40Super]

with those thin walls , I would think not much is going to be gained because it'll just flake off,the deeper V part should work .

[Rangefinder]

Threw together two quick test loads this morning--a bottom-end .357 load and a full-house load. Got interesting results! The bottom-end load blew the nose all to pieces and left the base half to penetrate three jugs--the first of which was confetti. But the full-house load peeled the nose into a doughnut, sheared it in the first jug, left it in the bottom of the second jug (which was shredded as well), and then continued to penetrate another jug for a total of three before coning to rest 3/4 through a 2x4 backer board. The full-house nose sheared in a near-perfect ring intact. Photos coming--just have to get to work now.

[a.squibload]

Those look good. Kinda like little beer kegs!
Nice fillout.

[Rangefinder]

Tapping them is the fun part... LOL

[Rangefinder]

New pin design and an alloy change yielded promising results.

The new pin is smaller in diameter and set deeper with a long taper and only radiused at the bottom of the cavity with a step at the crimp groove. I changed the alloy to a straight 15-1 (with whatever trace antimony hides in stick-ons), and drove these at about 1100fps into wet-packs. Both penetrated to 5 1/2 to just shy of 6", retained much of their nose portion, and expanded very well. I think my 2-legged varmint boolit is just about dialed in. ;) Just FYI, the pin "looks" off-center because I had to hold it open on-angle to get it in the photo. It IS centered, just tipped back to see the cavity without the other half of the block getting in the way.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF1110.jpg

For comparative, here's the original pin design and depth setting.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF0915.jpg

[Rangefinder]

Here's the latest addition to the HP Mod thread--have to say I'm pretty happy with it. It's a Lyman 358432 done for another member here. Now I'm kinda thinking I might just have to get one for myself. ;) It turned out SO much nicer than the Lee WC I'm playing with (posted above).

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF1844.jpg

[Michael J. Spangler]

nice work!

[Rangefinder]

Did another one...

This is a Lyman 311419 that now has a HP cavity, done for another member here. At the current depth setting on the alloy I fed it (my 50/50 pistol alloy) the HP dropped at 77gr. ave. and finishes at 80gr. with the GC on.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF2074.jpg

[xd4584]

I'm gonna hp my lee tc 230 grain trunicated cone. Just ordered a ten pack of t30 torx drivers for the pins. Any thoughts on that?

[Rangefinder]

The difficulty I'm seeing you may have is the cross-section being hex on most that I'm familiar with (on the shaft portion), then tapering down to the driver head. Meshing them tightly with a set of mold blocks is going to be tricky. One thing I do know is that trying to spin them down to a round pin below the taper is a bad idea--even the cheap chinese ones are pretty darn hard. I see the idea you're going for, something in the way of Miha penta-points? You've got some serious planning ahead for that one.

[MikeS]

If the torx drivers he's getting are actually torx screwdrivers and he's going to cut off the handles, most of those I believe do in fact have round shanks. It's the interchangeable torx bits that are hex shaped. Actually that sounds like a pretty cool idea. Come to think of it, if he can get them short enough, with short handles, he might be able to use them basically as is for the pins, maybe adding a shaft collar to regulate depth, so the HP would be adjustable for depth. If he could find a set of stubby torx screw drivers of different sizes, he could also use them to make different diameter HP's, unless the shaft diameter changes too, in which case he would have to choose which one he wants to use. This could be a very interesting experiment in making interesting HP boolits!

[Navahojoe]

Thanks for the write up on "hollow pointing a mold without a machine shop". Using your idea, I hollow pointed and made pins for three of my Lee 2 cavity molds today. Have not been to range yet, just poured a handful of boolits from each mold to see what they looked like. They looked great! Thanks, Rangefinder.
NavahoJoe

[Rangefinder]

Have not been to range yet, just poured a handful of boolits from each mold to see what they looked like. They looked great!

Not good enough... WE NEED PHOTOS!!! :popcorn:

[Navahojoe]

I would post a couple of photos, but cant figure how to up load after reading the sticky! If I could email them to someone who has the knowledge?
NavahoJoe

[Rangefinder]

Easiest way to upload is to first upload to something like photobucket. Then copy and paste the link in the URL pop-up. That's how I do it. ;)

[wwboolitmaker]

Ok guys ....i hollow pointed my lee 429230 swc mold this weekend.... needs a lil bigger pin but not bad i don't think.
Here's the before
http://i50.tinypic.com/2py2dqc.jpg

Here's the after
http://i49.tinypic.com/2jfzuiu.jpg

[jkpq45]

Wow, ww! Looks like a cup point rather than a hollow point!

What's your alloy/planned velocity for that boolit? Is it headed towards .44 Magnum?

[wwboolitmaker]

Its def a hollow point, it goes down into the lube grooves. Here is another pic of the boolits it's dropping now. I didnt like my metplate to have the real thin edges so i put more of a shoulder on it and its casting better now. How deep should I have the pin set for it to shoot the most accurate?? I plan on shooting them around 1100-1200 fps with a 50:50 ww and pb.

http://s8.postimage.org/c1023ven5/BULLET.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/c1023ven5/)

[Rangefinder]

Well done!!! I push .40's about that same velocity (maybe a tad less and have the pin set just below the front band. May have to play with your alloy to keep it intact, but man--looks like a keeper to me!!

[autopilotmp]

Can I get some photos or description of the items you guys are using as the bushing/guide for your drill bit? I am trading off one of my molds for a 356-120-TC mold that I already have so i can attempt to hollow point it. I would like some info on where I can pick up the items you are using to guide the bit. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

Also, can you hollow point both cavities in a lee mold or does that mess something up? (this will be an old style mold)

[Rangefinder]

Autopilot---I'm short on time right this minute, but would really like to give you some details on what I've worked up over the past few months to do this as far as bushing material, etc. If I haven't made it back to this and addressed it by tomorrow afternoon, hit me with a PM to jog the memory. ;) They say that's the 2nd thing to go... Forgot what the 1st was...

[autopilotmp]

rangefinder: that would be greatly appreciated. The mold I am going to be working on won't be here for a few days. Gives me some time to get some needed items together.

[Tucker]

Nice job men,thanks for all the good info

[Rangefinder]

Didn't forget you--just doing my best impression of a one-armed wallpaper hanger lately. Stay tuned autopilot

[Rangefinder]

Bet you thought I forgot again, huh?

As it turns out, I still haven't been able to get some time out in my shop lately. The only time I have in anything longer than a few minutes is at night--but temps are still in negative. SO... I'll try to give you the finer points without the series of photos for a step-by-step. You should be able to see a couple to reference anyway.

I figured out a great bushing material not too long ago that serves a dual purpose: brass bullet weights for fishing. They look exactly like the lead ones, no mistaking them--they're cheap, too. Start by picking one just larger than the boolit diameter of the cavity you're using it in. Clamp it into your drill press vice using grooved wood blocks so you don't mar it up--you're drilling the guide hole through the middle at this point. Conveniently, it already has a pilot hole that was meant for fishing line. The guide hole should be cut with the same bit you intend to drill the mold blocks with.

Next, lay the brass weight in the cavity of the mold. It should be too big--this is how you make it just right. Slide a small bolt through the center hole of the weight and tighten a nut on it. It needs to be a bolt long enough to chuck into your drill press. Spin down the diameter of the weight till it matches the diameter of the drive bands of a boolit cast from that cavity. Then lay the weight in the cavity to mark grooves for cutting. This doesn't need to be precise so long as the weight fits the cavity, the mold closes, and there is no slop or movement off-axis or the weight inside the cavity. I should have mentioned first--the tapered end of the weight should be forward in the nose of the cavity. Figured it would just make sense it was done that way, but just in case.

NOW you're ready to proceed with the steps of drilling the cavity as outlined in the beginning of the thread.

As to the dual purpose of the brass fishing weight. After everything is drilled, use the drilled weight bushing to mount your pin in. Either drill and tap it for a set screw that allows you to change the depth of a straight pin, or use a high-temp epoxy to set it in the handle of a tapered pin. Marine-Tex Gray is what I use--it wistands casting temps easily. The side effect is the brass weight makes an adequate heat-sink to help prolong the life of the wood pin handle.

This is the adjustable style:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF2074.jpg


And here is the set-in-place style:
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/hillsjim/DSCF2102.jpg

Hope this helps.
Jim

[autopilotmp]

That will help a lot, I understood all of it except this part:

"Then lay the weight in the cavity to mark grooves for cutting."

Think I can work with the info you have provided, maybe I can get to this project this weekend. Will take pics as I go, although it is hard telling when I will get another day to cast before spring. I cast outside so the temp has to be fairly warm.

Thanks again for the expanded info on this I appreciate your time.

[Rangefinder]

That will help a lot, I understood all of it except this part:

"Then lay the weight in the cavity to mark grooves for cutting."

Think I can work with the info you have provided, maybe I can get to this project this weekend. Will take pics as I go, although it is hard telling when I will get another day to cast before spring. I cast outside so the temp has to be fairly warm.

Thanks again for the expanded info on this I appreciate your time.
This is the simple part, but I guess I should have made it a little more clear. Lay the weight on the cavity on a mold half, then mark where the lube grooves are touching with a sharpy marker. Then just put it back on the bolt, chuck it into your press, and cut the corresponding grooves into it so it will sit in the mold cavity and allow the mold to close. It doesn't have to be a perfect match to the actual boolit grooves, just so the mold will close tight and there is no wobble inside the cavity by the weight (Preferably no spinning either--best if it's a tight fit).

[MT Gianni]

How are you casting with these? Are you setting the pin in to your depth, resting the mold on it and ladle casting? I am trying to devise something easy to hold the pin while I D%T the mold with a screw to keep the pin from coming out as I slide it out from under the bottom pour.

[autopilotmp]

Thanks for the explanation, after reading the post several times I walked away from the computer and looked at the mold for a min and realized that is what you meant.thanks again for your help.

[Rangefinder]

MT>> I ladle cast, but you could bottom pure all the same. When I make the pins I over-size them about 1/1000 then lap them right into the mold. When it's up to temp friction holds the pin in place. Haven't had a loose one yet that wouldn't stay put till I gave it a twist.

[savingprivateyang]

Tried to do both cavities. Messed up the first one, got the second one.

59513

This is after powder coating. Have to make a new pan with pins on it so I could just place the hp over the pin and powder coat the whole boolit.

59514

[Rangefinder]

Awe man, that looks GREAT!! Fired any yet? We need the range report now! For the botched cavity you might be able to carefully redrill it larger and just use a plug pin for a flat nose. But honestly, the other one looks like it came out so well there's no point in risking the mold now. So you ended up with a 1-banger--it's a darn good looking one-banger!

[cylinderman]

Just an FYI drill guide bushings can be had in a lot of sizes and shapes and fit the drill perfect. They are cheap, just a few dollars, and can be purchased from any machinist supply. The fit is so nice you could drill with a hand drill. Oh and nice machining, its not the tooling its the will to make the setup that gets the job done

[savingprivateyang]

The pictures in the attatched link will show you some rough performance capabilities. I still haven't been able to test any of my boolits, but someone else followed my example and have been able to test theirs. I may end up going to a few indoor ranges around me and seeing if they'd allow me to do expansion testing and such.

http://www.300BlkTalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=82162

[Rangefinder]

Man, you are making me ill... You are going to FORCE me to get that darn 300 Blackout barrel for my NEF, aren't you? And then there comes dies, and molds, and fire-forming, and custom mods... See what you are doing here?? :D

[dudits]

WOW this thread is bad for me!!!
so i show the fiance this thread, and say i am going to give it a go. i got the glare...
she has faith in my abilities, but she says i will now want to buy multiple molds of the same kind everytime i order.

fast forward a few pages and she see's mention of a 300 blackout. well she has me show her what it is and now it has been added to her list.

i want to say thanks for this write up, as i think it will be very handy.

i think i will try 1st with a lee 356-102 that i use for the fiance's .380 "sometimes 9mm powderpuff's"

will post pics soon :)

[Jim..47]

Really great instructions on how to become a "Do it yourself'er"

Great Pics too. I can never my pics to look anything like yours.

[eljefeoz]

I am interested. Or I wouldnt be up at midnight memorising this thread...Thanks,Rangefinder
I have a Lee 0.285/130 double cavity, and I think I can knock out the alignment pin in the forward cavity, get a brass nipple OR tape a 3.5mm bit to get centre , clamp the mold to the work table and go for it.
Cheers
PS-Can Anyone here please tell me how to remove the handles off this mold?
Yup, am that new :veryconfu

[jasent]

great thread im thinking I want to do one as well

[Rangefinder]

I am interested. Or I wouldnt be up at midnight memorising this thread...Thanks,Rangefinder
I have a Lee 0.285/130 double cavity, and I think I can knock out the alignment pin in the forward cavity, get a brass nipple OR tape a 3.5mm bit to get centre , clamp the mold to the work table and go for it.
Cheers
PS-Can Anyone here please tell me how to remove the handles off this mold?
Yup, am that new :veryconfu


The lee 2-cav handles are pinned in place. You can remove them by tapping the pins out, but it's not necessary for the procedure of HP'ing them--just the alignment pin in the way of the cavity you want to drill.

[jasent]

My plan is to hp my Lyman rfn 250gr what size diameter would you recomend for the pin for deer size game. I use ww/2% tin

[Rangefinder]

My plan is to hp my Lyman rfn 250gr what size diameter would you recomend for the pin for deer size game. I use ww/2% tin

Jasent, what mold/caliber/cartridge? For hunting, I'd recommend NOT HP'ing---a rfn with a soft alloy will do quite well and penetrate as needed. HP's may not be the best idea. BUT... I'll guide you as best I can on a HP project none the less. ;)

[jasent]

44mag,Lyman #439 I believe, 250gr rfn double cavity. Alloy I normally use is ww+2% tin. When I recover these bullets they normally dont expand much if at all in dirt. Have yet to shoot game with this gun. Its a new model super Blackhawk with 10 1/2" barrel. I also use this gun for pd

[Rangefinder]

Much better info... For good expansion, you're too hard--if by WW you mean "clip-on" WW... For a good expansion with good weight retention I use 50/50 clip-on with dead-soft and add 2% tin. If you try to use straight clip-on with a HP it will shatter and both penetration and terminal ballistics will suffer.

The general rule I toy with where pin size and depth is concerned is between 1/3 and no more than 1/2 boolit diameter for pin diameter and set depth is about twice whatever that diameter comes out to be--give or take with boolit profile.

[jasent]

thank you. I do have some soft lead. ill mix it as you said. yes clip on wheel weights.

[sparkz]

Man,,, I have no press
but have a great mold I would love to HP,,
Ideal single Cav, 452-460 steel, One at a time will be just fine for me and the Colt .45acp
Rangefinder Sent you a PM,,
If I can get the mold drilled I can make up a pin with Mr Dewall and a file finishe with emerycloth
and fit a nice Knob and pin stop
its the drill press it is not something I can find on the cheap here
I am good with a drill but not that good hahaha


as for the rifle mold with off set hole, make up a plug and have a FN and HP mold to salvage mold Cav,,

All these look killer
Great work boys


Patrick

[Garyshome]

Thread is getting long! How much weight does the hp'ing remove from the Boolit? in say an 9mm or 45 acp or whatever you are working on. Will you use a heavier boolit to get the weight you want? Have you gone to the hardware store to see if they make pins that are the size you can use?[seems that this might speed things up a little bit] Are you only using a few cavities out of the 6 cavity mold?

[Rangefinder]

The weight removed varies by diameter and depth of the pin used. I don't go for a specific weight during the process, weight isn't nearly as important as the pin setting and alloy used. But for reference my .40S&W 175gr SWC drops down to 165gr as a HP, 158gr in 357 SWC drops to about 150gr. etc, etc. There are specific things that would speed things a little for pin material such as buying 3/16 drill rod for pin stock and then using a 3/16 bit when drilling, but everything is not equal where different calibers are concerned. I like to decide the cavity size for a HP based on the nose profile, expected velocity, and individual caliber. A 357mag moving 1100fps is going to give poor performance if it's using the same pin that makes a 45ACP moving 850fps do well, and vice-versa. You can standardize a little, but not too much and still expect custom performance. Catch my meaning? In a 6-cav mold I usually HP one and pour 5 normally. Dealing with too many spud-style pins slows things down too much and the mold doesn't stay as hot as aluminum molds like to be. With a good rhythm it doesn't take long to get a pile of HP's even with a single cav dropping them.

[mereside]

well thanks for a very informative post I am about to start getting things together for starting out casting for .357 I would like to ask a question, what sort of depth is required or is this something that needs experimenting on with an adjustable pin. What would be the best size for the pin in .357
you have all done a super job on those moulds ,atb wayne

[Newtire]

I see either a ruined Lee single cavity or a cool mould in my future.

[Rangefinder]

well thanks for a very informative post I am about to start getting things together for starting out casting for .357 I would like to ask a question, what sort of depth is required or is this something that needs experimenting on with an adjustable pin. What would be the best size for the pin in .357
you have all done a super job on those moulds ,atb wayne

Pin size and depth are at your own discretion (the beauty of doing it yourself--one of them anyway). I like to run about 1/2 meplat of the bullet I'm using and set the depth to about the middle of the front drive band with a tapered pin.

[wistlepig1]

Range, I have an old lee 158, 358 that is real tired and now I will see If I can do 1/2 as nice a job on it as you did on yours. Thanks for the idea and one more for a STICKY!

[mereside]

Pin size and depth are at your own discretion (the beauty of doing it yourself--one of them anyway). I like to run about 1/2 meplat of the bullet I'm using and set the depth to about the middle of the front drive band with a tapered pin.

great thanks for that i have all my gear now so going to have a go i will post pics whilst i am modding my moulds, atb wayne

[koehlerrk]

Just bought a Lee 6-banger from a member here that had the end cavity messed up, so I got it cheap. Looking it over, I can see that making that last cav a HP could bring it back to full usefulness. Oh yes... must make this a HP mold.... and I have a vise, drill press, and anything else is readily available. Oooohhhh....

[19ellis93]

To the op......hows your mold doing after the mod?

[Rangefinder]

Same as it always has, except the boolit count it's dropped is quite a bit higher. Beyond that? No sign of change.

[reloader28]

I did this to a couple molds that I didnt use anymore. Works great. Now I have 2 HP molds that cast FAST and easy.
Great boolit performance too.
I'll be doing it to a couple more molds.

[Littlewolf]

Guess I just found me a doable project for my 9mm 38spl 40s&w, will start off by jacking up an all ready wore out lee tl-356-124 2r

[Boogieman]

I hollow pointed 2 old Lee molds. 1 was a loose 2 hole 45 SWC. found that the HP pin tightened up the mold The other , a single, was tighter also .If your pins fit tight they help line up the blocks.

[loademwell]

This is a "Must Do" for me. I can't wait. Any chance some can send me the OP in a pdf. file?
loademwell@yahoo.com Im not very computer friendly...

[Rangefinder]

Done. Let's get your email out of public view, now, shall we?

Welcome to the addiction. ;)

[Michael J. Spangler]

i have a 356402 that i got in a trade. i don't really have use for it because its single cavity and i prefer my lee 6 banger for mass quantities of plinking ammo.
i'm going to hollow point her this weekend!

[UBER7MM]

i have a 356402 that i got in a trade. i don't really have use for it because its single cavity and i prefer my lee 6 banger for mass quantities of plinking ammo.
i'm going to hollow point her this weekend!

Michael,
.
Please post photos of your work.
.
Thanks in advance,

[Boogieman]

98072980739806298063Had a loose old Lee mold , was going to scrap it. this thread made me try to "improve" it.I hollow pointed 1 side & removed the bevel base. The other side I removed the grease grooves to mold "slicks" for powder coating . The HP pin is held in it's handle with a set screw it can be reversed to make flat points. I can get 3 different boolits out of 1 mold a195gr. HP, a 210gr. solid, & a 218gr. slick. The HP went through 4 gal. plastic water jugs. 830 fps Bhn 8.6 45acp. Boolits were powder coated 1 coat HF red dry tumbled.

[SSGOldfart]

Great post, but I've got to ask how many molds did you send to the bone yard? I killed two this past year both 30calls

[Rangefinder]

All totaled, I converted two Lee 2-bangers into effective single-cav's during the learning curve--less efficient by half, but still usable. Since then, all is as it should be. AND, the 6-cav that I used in the photos is still cranking out the best HP's of any of them. Bone yard is empty.

[Boogieman]

Great post, but I've got to ask how many molds did you send to the bone yard? I killed two this past year both 30calls
None this was my first try. Did a 252 Lee SC for my 45Colt SA but haven't loaded any yet It came out better maybe because I hadn't "improved " it before hollow pointing

[pra2]

Very nice write up. I am going to try,but I have a question.
Mold is lee TL452-200-swc. The brass bearing is to long to be flush with mold block. Do you guys cut your brass bearing down length wise or what? What size drill bit are you using?

[petroid]

Tried it. Mediocre results. Firstly, I didn't get the hole centered. And my HP pin doesn't have an even bevel but that can be fixed. Hard to keep the HP pin hot.107352107353107354107355

Edit
Shot some today. Accuracy on par with the parent bullet at least considering my skills. I'm shooting a 3" XD40 so sighting is tough at 50 feet but they grouped more or less the same with approximately the same poi so next step is terminal ballistics testing

[petroid]

Update! Cast few from SOWW. PC with HF red. Loaded and shot at 950fps into sand. Here are the results
108543
I'm grinning from ear to ear!

[500MAG]

Update! Cast few from SOWW. PC with HF red. Loaded and shot at 950fps into sand. Here are the results108542
I'm grinning from ear to ear!
attachment not working for me

[petroid]

try again. I had to reupload the pic. works on my pc and phone so i think it should work

[Michael J. Spangler]

wow i really need to find a range that will let me shoot bullets at things other than paper.
i need to see some of my HPs after they hit some water.
awesome pics!

[petroid]

wow i really need to find a range that will let me shoot bullets at things other than paper.
i need to see some of my HPs after they hit some water.
awesome pics!

I just made a bullet trap in my garage. One five gal bucket of sand with another bucket on top. Top bucket lined with old carpet and a two inch hole in the lid. Close up the garage and put on ear pro. Muzzle down in the hole and voila! Really not loud outside

[yondering]

Good work, however, sand really does not tell you anything about how well a hollow point really works. Sand packs down on impact, and doesn't move fluidly. You need some sort of wet test material. Water is easiest.

[Rangefinder]

Several things work very well. I use water-soaked magazine stacks or jugs crammed tight with water-soaked newsprint or water-soaked sawdust. You need something fluid with something fibrous to give a better simulation of tissue. Then you can add different covers to test penetration through light cover or clothing and how it effects your expansion in different ways. It gets pretty interesting and eye-opening when you run those kind of simulations. Some of the "best" factory defense ammo turns out to be pretty disappointing in the expansion department when you add even a heavy denim or leather jacket.

[PalmettoProjectiles]

i would destroy my molds, guaranteed.

[fps_bill]

Well I effectively turned a 2 cavity lee into a single cavity. I couldn't find a bronze bushing that'd work so I used an aluminum spacer with a roll pin inside. The hp'd cavity is still usable, just not perfectly centered. Oh well I'm only out 20 bucks.

[autopilotmp]

okay finally got around to doing the mold that I intended to do this to 2yrs ago. I spent the afternoon trying to get everything lined up and still managed to get the hole just a tad off center. Considering what they will be used for I don't see that it will be much of an issue. The mold I drilled is a 356120 TC old style lee mold. I also have a new style that I picked up in a trade so no worries if this was a failure. I used an 1/8" drill for the hole then actually used a second 1/8" drill that mic'd just a tad bigger for the pin. I still need to secure the pin in the handle, but I do have a brass weight that the pin is press fit into so I can get the depth where I like. Depth is currently just below the front drive band. I have no taper on the pin, I think that may be why it takes a bit of effort to get the pin pulled out. Anyways I fired up the pot and dropped a few just to see how they were.

Begin weight: @ 125 gn

HP weight: @ 115 gn

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/autopilotmp/20151129_1744111_zpslubhlqel.jpg (http://s65.photobucket.com/user/autopilotmp/media/20151129_1744111_zpslubhlqel.jpg.html)

[berksglh]

Thanks to the OP for sharing the idea!

However I do have access to a lathe, so I made the bushing for drilling on the lathe and the pins as well. Worked super easy and true after that.

Heres the drill guide bushing I made
161631

Using it to drill a lee 0.356"-124 2R mold
161632

Ready to test.
161633

Ready to load
161634

Thanks for the GREAT idea!
Dave. (berksglh)

[brettb75]

I have a nice Lathe and precision measuring instruments so I think I might try a Cramer style because I'm pretty sure I can do it. Great post. If anyone has done one Cramer style please pm me if you don't Cate to share details and help

[brettb75]

Good post berksglh, appreciate the picturesque

[drac0nic]

Wow, this is awesome. Makes me want to convert my Lee 158 SWC to produce bullets for Treasury Loads.

[ReconJohn]

This is an outstanding thread. Will be trying it soon.

[LSCG]

been looking through this thread and would really like to give this a try with a couple of molds!

I had an idea and was curious as to what others thought. rather than trying to find a bushing to center the drill bit, why not take a boolit that was cast from the mold you're fixing to hollow point and drill a center hole through it. using a micrometer or calipers you should be able to see if the hole was drilled straight. if it was then put it back in the mold and use it to center the bit when drilling through the mold.

I suppose since lead is soft there would be a chance that the bit could ream out the hole in the boolit and allow the bit to wander but I would think that if everything is lined up right it wouldn't be an issue.

[yondering]

How are you going to drill a bullet perfectly straight without a lathe?

Seems that if you have the capability to drill a bullet straight, you could use that same capability to drill the mold.

[LSCG]

How are you going to drill a bullet perfectly straight without a lathe?


well I'm certainly no machinist but I figure that if you have a good drill press, set up nice and square with a brad point bit that you'd be able to drill a pretty straight hole though a boolit. and using calipers you should be able to see if the hole was drilled center.


Seems that if you have the capability to drill a bullet straight, you could use that same capability to drill the mold.

I assumed that the main intent of the Bushing used on page one was to help ensure that the drill bit was centered inside the cavity. after all it would be quite difficult to peek into the cavity to make sure the bit was exactly where it needed to be.

my idea was just to make your own rather than going to the trouble of driving to the hardware store and trying to find a bushing that either fits or fits close enough that you have to wrap in in foil to make it work.

after all what would fit the cavity better than a boolit cast from it?

[ItllKeal]

Great write up, it's almost genius if not so simple. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge .

[fall7rise8]

Really great post, I made it into a pdf file and printed it out, it makes a nice booklet, the photos are great. when I need a drill bit to be spot on in a peice of alu., I use a brad point drill bit, they work well in alu. :goodpost:

Me too. My Lee mold should be here today. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220427/6addf23ce5cdbc550b6853dc0c515d35.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[technojock]

I don't think I could make a good centering bushing but I'd love to try this. I've been planning to buy a small lathe for awhile and use it as a business write off. I suppose the time for that is getting close... :)

I have a couple Lee molds for my .45-70 that would be at the top of my list to HP...

Tony

[Beaverhunter2]

I gave the bushing method a shot on a new model (alignment cones) Lee 358-200-FN. It didn't come out perfectly centered but it's PDC. I've casted up a few and hope to try them out next week. I was getting around 2" groups with the FN at 100yds in my 350 Legend AR. If they come in close to that I'll consider it a success. As a side benefit, the cavity I drilled was usually really hard to get the boolits to drop from. (That's why I picked it to drill.) That problem seems to be solved.

Thanks for sharing!

John

[Beaverhunter2]

Tested the HPs last weekend. Got under 1" at 50yds and 3 1/2" - 4" at 100yds. The HP was just a touch off center and it must be enough to destabilize it by the time it gets out that far. Interesting that at 50yds it shoots better than the RFN. Probably because the COG has been moved back a bit.


Trying to decide if I should take a crack at the other cavity.�� Thanks again for sharing!

John