Sizing down regular boolits?

[lunicy]

I've been casting for a long time, but have never PP before.
I got the basics figured out.

Is there a reason I couldn't:
Take a regular cast boolit and size it down a few thou (thickness of two wraps of paper)
Then wrap it back up to bore size (+.001 or so)

Would this work. I don't mind experimenting, but if it's been proven to not work....

Thanks

[303Guy]

It's what I do for my 1902 L.E. I* sporter. It has a near new N04 barrel and these seem to need two-diameter boolits so I made a sizer die to achieve the right size and shape. I like a small rebate on the boolit base so I use a slightly larger rebate so as to have some surviving rebate after sizing. Obviously it's a nose first sizer. But the boolit starts out smooth sided so there is nowhere for the metal to go but forward resulting in a longer boolit. The rebate prevents any feathering of the base edge.

Are you sure the as cast boolit won't fit the throat when patched and seated in an unsized case neck?

[docone31]

Example,
On my .30s, I size to .308, wrap twice with notebook paper, let dry, size to .309. That is my go to with my .30s.
So, the answer is a definate yes.
No lube on the final sizeing. Just enough Car Wax to let it slip through the die.
They expand one more .001 after sizeing also.

[lunicy]

thanks Docone

Do you use a special PP mold, or just a regular mold.

I would probably be using a regular mold with lube groves. I assume there wouldn't be a problem with it, but you guys would know better.

[docone31]

For my .30s, I use the Lee 180gn .30cal mold. I cast these with a lot of times zinc.
I size with Lee Push thru sizers. I use dish soap for lube, then rinse with hot water. I like lube lands as I feel they grip the patch.
I could be wrong, but I do get results I can live with.

[geargnasher]

I'm new to this too, and I've had excellent luck using regular boolits, sizing them to about a thousandth OVER BORE, patching to a couple thousandths or more over groove, then sizing to just over groove like you would with normal bare cast. I've used boolits a few thousandths under bore diameter and accuracy was miserable, so I feel it's essential to get the boolit to be at least bore diameter if not a bit larger. I've heard a lot of folks just like Docone31 that size to groove or whatever they have that will even-up the boolit, then patch to whatever two wraps of their favorite paper gets them, and swage the whole mess to just over groove. This saves having to have a special mould or sizer, since .301" moulds and sizers are scarce.

Col. Harrison and Matthews both suggest that the lube grooves help keep the patch from slipping, especially on wet patches where the paper will shrink and hold tight to the grooves when dry. The grooves have one added benefit, in my opinion, in that if you final size the patched boolit in a lube-sizer, you can gently coax a little lube into the depressions in the paper around the grooves, thus lubing the boolit.

Gear

[303Guy]

The lube grooves will hold the patch with dry wrapping too (not that I'm suggesting it - in some ways it's more work). If I can find where I hid my Lee mold (same one as docone31 has I think?) I will try it and see. I have tried it once before but that was before I found the 'trick' and also it was with my 'rust textured' two-groove.

Open to correction here but I seem to think the bore-riding nose section core may be smaller than bore and still work well. My latest test results would indicate so but more testing is required to confirm.

[pdawg_shooter]

All my molds are standard grooved molds. I size down to bore diameter +.001/.0015 and patch back up. I have had and sold half a dozen smooth sided PP molds over the years. Always have better luck with grooved bullets.

[6.5 mike]

I follow padagw & docone31 with the use of standard grooved moulds. Sometimes you get lucky, the mould will drop small enough to be pp'ed as cast , then if needed sized to what your rifle needs. I've been lucky with lee moulds doing this. You can also use differant thickness's of paper to gain what is needed.

303 guy, I had a lee 200 gr that was small on the nose, pp'ed would show promise at 50 yds, but no good at 100 yds. I traded with a member here who needed it for a k-31. His mould is much better on the nose & the little shooting I have done with it shows a marked improvement at 100 yds, I think bore riders need to fit reasonably well to work best, YMMV. :popcorn:

[offshore44]

Yup...can't afford to buy the proper sized PP molds at the moment for the 8mm and the 458 Win mag, so I use sized grease groove bullets...with good success so far.

[303Guy]

My bore-ride boolit has a slightly tapered nose and is fairly tight in the bore on chambering so it does have a good fit. I also use thin paper so the core is not too small.

[popper]

So if my throat slugs at .312, I can PP the .309 in a 3.11 sizer an shoot them? If they are too large for the bore, they cause a pressure spike? Or get sized by he bore? Do they have to be sized after PP or is that just to get the paper to stick?

[pdawg_shooter]

I have always had better results by sizing the bullet to BORE diameter +.001/.0015 and patching to GROOVE diameter +.001/.003 OR AS LARGE AS WILL FIT THE THROAT. Dont worry about being a few thousands over groove diameter, the patch will size down in the bore. Start with starting loads for jacketed and work up. Use a powder that will give as near as possible to 100% load density with full loads. If loading a bore riding nose design be sure to patch to the start of the ogive.

[geargnasher]

I've been following the advice of Pdawg and others, I did try a string of boolits once that were .003" under bore diameter patched to .001" over groove, no dice, looked like a shotgun pattern at 50 yards. That was proof enough to me that the boolit probably needs to be at or just over bore diameter in most instances, at least with smokeless powder.

Gear

[MBTcustom]

Some experimenting will serve you well.
Take one of your GG boolits, measure it with a micrometer, wrap with paper, size to .312 or what ever you plan to do, unwrap the boolit and measure again. You will find that the boolit has been sized under the paper. So when docone31 starts with a .308 boolit and then patches it, and then sizes it again to .309, I guarantee that his boolits are coming out .300-.302 under the paper.
I have not had good sucsess with this method. I think that my press is so old and rickety, that the boolits go bannaner shaped or something.
My method requires special push through sizer dies that I made myself, but lee will hook you up for a very small fee.
Also, I am shooting .358 diameter boolits, but the same principles apply.

I cast up a bunch of boolits
Run 'em through a .351 sizer die.
Roll a knurl on 'em with a rough bastard file on a piece of leather.
I use a template I made from a hanging window blind to cut a bunch of patches.
I roll the patches on dry with my fingers using 303guys roll crimp patch design. (I dont twist the tails) and put a dab of glue on the base of the boolit to hold down the trailing corner.
After the glue dries, I roll them on a block of bees wax/olive oil (think bar of soap) that I made.
After that, I size all of them to .358
After they sit over night, they have expanded to .360.
I reamed all my brass to .358 while it was in the sizer.
I load these puppies over a stiff charge of slow burning powder, and voila!
Five shot group at 50 yards.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l481/goodsteel/IMG_1194.jpg
I'm still trying to figure out how Quigley got 5 shots into a group that size at 900 yards, but I'm sure that it can be done (especially if hollywood can come and tell my story:mrgreen:)
Please bear in mind that group was shot with iron sights. I might could do better with a scope.

[303Guy]

:2_high5:

It's hard to aim iron sights. You might find the same size group at 100yds. I know my heartbeat causes a shake as large as my groups at times, something you can't see with iron sights so that's a pretty damn good group!

[bydand]

funny story about sizing bullets. Have two Merwin & Hulbert revolvers. While both are 44-40, one is marked 44 winchester.
the brass is identical, BUT the 44 winchester uses a bullet a few thousandths smaller in diameter! Found this out the hard way as I couldn't load the rounds. Had to special order a sizing die from Lee to swage the 44-40 bullets that small difference!