Problem with Lee push-through sizer dies

[d0n]

Hello all,

I'm attempting to size some cast boolits with the Lee push-through sizer die. Boolits are from RCBS 45-270-SAA. With my WW alloy, they drop between .454 and .456, with the occasional .457. I am attempting to size them to .452 with the appropriate Lee sizer die.

Problem is:

First time through, I broke the toggle links on my Lee Challenger single stage trying to push though a boolit that appeared to be stuck. I assumed this was my fault because I did not lube the boolit prior to the attempted sizing. I ordered replacement toggle links for the press, and another .452 sizing die (because I thought maybe the die was possibly defective. I read many posts on here where people say they can size similar deltas with these dies without lube and without sticking boolits)

So I fixed my press up and gave it another try with the new die. This time I lubed with LLA before sizing. It took a lot of force, and I thought that I was going to snap my toggle links again, but I got the first boolit through. Great. Tried a second one (again lubed). Took more force the second time, but it made it through. Tried a third one, and pulled the press right out of my reloading bench. After this, I inspected the two boolits that actually made it through the sizer. The forward driving band has been crushed into the crimp groove on each. After seeing this, I measured the two sized boolits @ the driving bands, and they both measured .450. I double-checked the die, and it is most certainly marked as .452.

Am I missing something?

[Dan Cash]

Am I missing something?

Only quality control from Lee. The push through sizer's are the only product from Lee that I will use as I find they do a credible job and the bullets are the desired size . I finished a batch of .311 bullets a few minutes ago. They are .311 to .3115. Your dies seem to have been finished too small. Lee will make it right.

[gasboffer]

I think your mold is too large.

[d0n]

I think your mold is too large.

I would inclined to agree with you if the sized boolits weren't coming out at .450

[d0n]

Am I missing something?

Only quality control from Lee. The push through sizer's are the only product from Lee that I will use as I find they do a credible job and the bullets are the desired size . I finished a batch of .311 bullets a few minutes ago. They are .311 to .3115. Your dies seem to have been finished too small. Lee will make it right.

So is this a common problem? Should I just call up Lee customer service and tell them what's going on? I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong.

[Junior1942]

To swage them down .004" to .005" you need copious LLA lube on the bullets & die and a heavy duty press like the Lee Classic Cast. Like gasboffer said, your mold is too big.

[noylj]

I find 0.454" bullets work well in my .45 Autos and .45 Colts, and if I was sizing, I would size these all to 0.454".
Back in the dark ages, we were taught that any sizing in excess of 0.002" would never produce an accurate bullet and to adjust the alloy to get close to the desired size. Fit was more important than hardness.
Have you checked the mold and verified that the blocks are fully closing and you are holding them closed firmly while casting?
In your case, what is your alloy? If it is a hard alloy, add more lead. As you add more pure lead, the bullets will be heavier and smaller in diameter.
You have slugged your barrel(s) to determine the minimum targeted bullet size?

[noylj]

Forget. Can you measure the sizing die ID? Sounds like an undersized sizing die and way over-sized as-cast bullets. If the sizer is wrong, Lee will replace it. If you want a larger sizer, Lee can make one for you.

[BCB]

It would seem that the Lee sizing die is the culprit…

It is to be 0.452” and you say you are getting boolits that are 0.450”…

But having said that, my 45-270-SAA casts boolits, depending on alloy, at 0.4565” from time to time…

I size to 0.454” in a LAM2…

But, using the Lee sizing dies, I easily size the 287346 with is 0.2855” down to 0.278” to use in the 270 Winchester and that is sizing down ~0.0075”…

I also size a boolit that is used in the 9x17 Makarav, 0.367” down to 0.358” to us in the 357 Magnum and that is sizing down 0.009”…

So this type of sizing down can be done and I don’t have problems pushing them through Lee dies. Although I do use a LAM2 in some situations…

I also use an RCBS press…

I think your boolits are O.K. and it is the sizer that is too small…

Although you are only going down 0.006”±, you do have greater surface area than the ones I am listing so you will experience more force required…

Best have Lee check the measurements or purchase another one…

Good-luck…BCB

[gray wolf]

With my WW alloy, they drop between .454 and .456, with the occasional .457. I am attempting to size them to .452 with the appropriat
I would try and see if you could cast some bullets and see why you are getting such a spread>>> .454--.457 .454 sized to 452 should be OK, .456 = .004 = a little harder to do
but not impossible. >457 = .005, depending on the hardness of your WW it could be crunch time. Add to that an undersized die and you have a problem.
Take a few of your smallest bullets and roll them between two flat surfaces and try to get them as close to .453 as possible, lightly lube and run them through the sizer in an effort to see what size die you actually have.
You also have to try to cast the same size bullets, at least within .0015 of each other.
Whenever you need so much force to accomplish an otherwise simple task it,s time to stop and figure out why.
I am sure there will be folks that will chime in and say they size down 5,6 8 or 10 thou.
You are not one of them, verify your die size, and try to adjust your casting in order to get the bullet size a little more consistent.
Mold temp, alloy temp, casting speed and make sure your mold closes with no daylight
between the blocks. Keep the mold interfaces free of any tiny bits of lead.
Please don't take my advise as criticism, I am just trying to cover some bases for you.

[JIMinPHX]

If you want to size down more than .003, you probably want to do it in more than 1 step.

I have always needed lube whenever using a push through sizer.

You should check your measuring instrument against a known standard to confirm that it is reading correctly. A factory made bullet is good for a ball park measurement. So is the shank of a brand new drill bit, as long as it isn't one of the cheap imports. It is not uncommon for a pair of calipers to be off by .001"-.002". The Lee push through dies that I have checked with a ball micrometer have always been spot on. That doesn't mean that a bad one could not slip through. I'd just double check my measurements before calling them & getting your complaint on record if I were you. If you do need to send it back, they are very reasonable people to deal with.

[d0n]

I find 0.454" bullets work well in my .45 Autos and .45 Colts, and if I was sizing, I would size these all to 0.454".
Back in the dark ages, we were taught that any sizing in excess of 0.002" would never produce an accurate bullet and to adjust the alloy to get close to the desired size. Fit was more important than hardness.
Have you checked the mold and verified that the blocks are fully closing and you are holding them closed firmly while casting?
In your case, what is your alloy? If it is a hard alloy, add more lead. As you add more pure lead, the bullets will be heavier and smaller in diameter.
You have slugged your barrel(s) to determine the minimum targeted bullet size?

I knew the question would come up... no, I haven't slugged my barrel yet. It's one of those things on my to do list that I just haven't gotten around to yet. :oops:

It's funny you mention the mold blocks closing all the way. I went out to double-check (I did a quick check when I first received and degreased the mold, and they looked fine). But when I checked more carefully just now, I see that they do, in fact, not close completely. If I hold the mold in front of a light and try to close it, I can still see some light between the blocks. It's not big enough that I get any flashing on the boolits when I cast, but it's there sure enough. What is the fix for this? This is the first and old mold I've ever cast with.

My alloy is generic wheel weights, so I don't know exact compositions. I do have about 10# of pure lead that is yet unused, and without having numbers to back me up, it does seem softer than the mystery allow, but not by a whole lot.

As far as what you said about sizing to .454, I bought the .452 die because that seems to be what most people around here size for in .45 pistol calibers (this is just going by what I seem to read on the forums, so I'm probably totally wrong). Currently, .45 boolits that I size are intended to be shot in a new model blackhawk, and a Kimber 1911. I guess the next thing I do will be slugging my barrel.

Thanks for the tips

[d0n]

Please don't take my advise as criticism, I am just trying to cover some bases for you.

Not at all. I really do appreciate all of the help!


You also have to try to cast the same size bullets, at least within .0015 of each other.


Yeah. I was wondering about the spread on those diameters, because that variance seems high to me as well. I also forgot to mention that these boolits are from my first ever casting session, so I very well may have dropped the ball there.



Mold temp, alloy temp, casting speed and make sure your mold closes with no daylight
between the blocks.

I just noticed that this was a problem, so once I figure out how to get the mold closing completely, I will do some more casting and see if I can't get a more consistent drop. Is it just a matter of lightly taking down the size of the alignment pins? Or should I open up the alignment holes instead? I'm assuming this is where the problem is coming from.

[nanuk]

I have read where Lee sizing dies are able to swage/draw/size jacketed bullets.

so the dies are strong enough to easily handle sizing lead down 10 thou

the press would be the weak link

also, if your die is a true .450 die, perhaps someone on here would trade you a .452 die for it. .450 has some leeway for opening a hair, and perfect for a .450/.458 barrel for PaperPatch sizing of the core.

[MGySgt]

FWIW -

By any chance are you water dropping these to harden them? If so they have to be sized ASAP after drying - else they get too hard to size properly on a normal press.

I know that after a few days water dropped will be considerably harder than air cooled.

Measuring - either get your caliper checked or use them to measure a know diameter and see what you measure the item. There is a real nack to getting proper readingings with calipers and I need a lot of practice to get it right/close

[d0n]

FWIW -

By any chance are you water dropping these to harden them? If so they have to be sized ASAP after drying - else they get too hard to size properly on a normal press.

I know that after a few days water dropped will be considerably harder than air cooled.

Measuring - either get your caliper checked or use them to measure a know diameter and see what you measure the item. There is a real nack to getting proper readingings with calipers and I need a lot of practice to get it right/close


I did two runs, some were water dropped and some weren't. I was intending to compare the two with the same powder loads. I don't remember which I was trying to size first, so I will check that when I get home. It has been probably a month since these were cast, so maybe that is my problem also.

As far as verifying my calipers, do you have any suggestions for a known diameter that would be good to thousandth's of an inch? I can't think of anything off the top of my head. I will admit that my calipers aren't the most expensive. Also, they are digital calipers, so I'm not sure if that's a plus or a minus for my situation.

Thanks for the help

[GRUMPA]

dOn,

I would really stress that a moderately priced 0-1" micrometer should be on your list of "gotta haves". Starting out casting I was in the precision grinding world of a machine shop. The only thing I use a caliper for is REFERENCE as far as bullet diameters are concerned. When your casting for whatever weapon in my mind the cost of a micrometer is miniscule in comparison to you and the weapon if something should happen.

Maybe I'm just to darn picky with what I do with my cast stuff, but that's just the way I am. If I can't measure something to the .0001 I aint happy.

[Char-Gar]

Methinks you are a water dropper! Turning good cast bullets into cement by drooping them in water has never seemed like a worthy idea to me.

If you are not a water dropper, lube the first couple of bullets with just about anything and there should be no problems with any decent press. But that does call into question the quality of your press.

Forgive me is a couple of my cast bullet and reloading prejudices are showing.... just saying!

[MGySgt]

What to use?

Do you have any J-bullets? If so there is a starting point. Remington and Sierra have their diammeter on the boox they came in. Hornady 44's is normally .430, Sierra is normally .4295

Really try any J-bullet and measure it 4 or 5 times (or more) until it comes out right the first time without you having to fiddle with it to get the correct diameter. Remember - the lead boolit is always easier to dig into when the jaws come together and the boolit sides are not perpendicular to the jaws.

And a silly thing - make sure you zerro the calipers and check them each and every time you use them.

The pressure you put on the adjustment wheel with your thumb has to be the same each and every time. It is a 'feel' thing you have to get use to.

Also clean the jaws before and after you use them. If you leave a film on them it could cause you to come up with a different reading (grit/dust on the jaws sticking to the lube - been there done that and got the wrong reading)

For me - WW Air cooled is normally from 2 week to months/years before they are sized. some aloys grow as they age up to about 2 to 3 weeks. Also the harder the boolit the more sping back you have when you size them. How much? - depends on the hardness and the aloy.

You mileage may vary - depending on what, when, where, and how you do your casting and sizing.

You really need to slug your bore and check against your cylinder throats. As long as the slugged bore is smaller than you throats - size to you largest throat and go have some fun!

[d0n]

dOn,

I would really stress that a moderately priced 0-1" micrometer should be on your list of "gotta haves". Starting out casting I was in the precision grinding world of a machine shop. The only thing I use a caliper for is REFERENCE as far as bullet diameters are concerned. When your casting for whatever weapon in my mind the cost of a micrometer is miniscule in comparison to you and the weapon if something should happen.

Maybe I'm just to darn picky with what I do with my cast stuff, but that's just the way I am. If I can't measure something to the .0001 I aint happy.

Thanks for the reply Grumpa. What would you suggest as a moderately priced micrometer? Is this something I can pick up locally at a big box store, or will I have to order it? I don't really have any machine shop experience (computer engineer by trade) so I am learning as I go. I already had the calipers from some other project, so I guess I was just hoping they would be good enough. I'm certainly open to buying new toys er, tools. 8-)

[d0n]

Methinks you are a water dropper! Turning good cast bullets into cement by drooping them in water has never seemed like a worthy idea to me.

If you are not a water dropper, lube the first couple of bullets with just about anything and there should be no problems with any decent press. But that does call into question the quality of your press.

Forgive me is a couple of my cast bullet and reloading prejudices are showing.... just saying!

Indeed, some were water dropped. I'll have to double check to see if these are the ones that I was trying to size.

As far as the quality of the press... it's a Lee. I did some reading, and I guess snapping the toggle links is a fairly common problem on that particular press if the bolt that holds the crossbar/lever assembly isn't very tight. I didn't know this before, so I can't vouch for how snugged down the bolt actually was. But, when I ordered the replacement toggle links, I made sure the bolt was tight, and this time the press ripped apart my reloading bench instead of self-destructing, so I'm going to claim responsibility on the snapped toggle links.

[d0n]

What to use?

Do you have any J-bullets? If so there is a starting point. Remington and Sierra have their diammeter on the boox they came in. Hornady 44's is normally .430, Sierra is normally .4295

Really try any J-bullet and measure it 4 or 5 times (or more) until it comes out right the first time without you having to fiddle with it to get the correct diameter. Remember - the lead boolit is always easier to dig into when the jaws come together and the boolit sides are not perpendicular to the jaws.


I'm assuming you mean "jacketed" by J-bullet (still learning [smilie=1: ) I wasn't sure if I could trust jacketed bullets to hold true to their nominal size. I'll give that a try, and then that'll give me something to reload with until I get the casting figured out.




For me - WW Air cooled is normally from 2 week to months/years before they are sized. some aloys grow as they age up to about 2 to 3 weeks. Also the harder the boolit the more sping back you have when you size them. How much? - depends on the hardness and the aloy.

You mileage may vary - depending on what, when, where, and how you do your casting and sizing.


I was going to ask if I should size them closer to when they were cast (perhaps as soon as they're cool enough) but does this imply that if I size too soon, that they will still swell after being sized?




You really need to slug your bore and check against your cylinder throats. As long as the slugged bore is smaller than you throats - size to you largest throat and go have some fun!

Yeah, I'm going to pick up some sinkers today. I watched some videos about slugging the barrels, but I'm still a little nervous about hammering lead into them (especially the blackhawk, where I would have to go in muzzle-first (which is something I was always told not to do, whether it's true or not). If I do end up shooting as-cast, how much oversize can they be? If it turns out that they are .452, would it be safe to fire a .457 boolit through? (I'm mainly concerned about the blackhawk. I wasn't planning on trying to shoot the 45-270-SAA through my 1911)

[GRUMPA]

dOn,
I've had mine for over 27yrs now and to be honest the only direction as far as where to get micrometers is thru a search engine (GOOGLE). This is what I have:
http://global.ebay.com/BROWN-AND-SHARPE-0-1-INCH-MICS-IN-VELVET-CASE/250855064813/item

Not knowing how big of a city you live in I couldn't answer your question about getting them locally, but I would expect you couldn't. These little gems are too specialized, normally the are shipped from some sort of a supplier.

[Char-Gar]

dOn... I have been at this reloading activity for quite a spell and the only reloading presses I have ever heard of snapping toggle links are made by Lee. That was the source of my comment on decent presses. I just can't imagine snapping the toggle link on a decent quality press. That just should not happen.

I have an old Pacific Super C press made back in the early 50's. I have done some really tough stuff with that press that required a four foot cheater bar slipped on the handle to give enough leverage to get er done. Nothing snapped on that press.

There are frequent and everlasting threads on this board about folks fiddling with Lee equipment to get it to work correctly. Reloading equipment should not require fixing to get it to work properly. It should work right out of the box and do so for a couple of generations. Please read my disclaimer below.

[wallenba]

I've had similar problems with a six cavity Lee 158 swc mold. It dropped really large at
.363-.364 . I size to .357 for my Smith because the throats are .357. If I sized .358 first, I could barely get them through. Final sizing at .357 wipes the crimp groove right off and most of the lube grooves one side. Junk. I use a lot of Lee molds, this is the only one I had trouble with.

[462]

dOn, a couple of suggestions:
Harbor Freight has a mechanical digital micrometer for less than $20. I strongly suspect that it is the same as those labeled with famous names. A caliper is generally considered accurate to +/- .01". A micrometer is generally considered accurate to +/- .001". A micrometer is ten times more accurate than a caliper.

As mentiuoned, water quenching is not necessary. In fact, you may discover that a straight wheel weight alloy is too hard. Too, I agree that you should give serious consideration to a press made of cast iron. Additionally, your bench needs some major reinforcing or complete a re-do.

If, after making more accurate measurements, the sizer is, indeed, .450" rather than .452", return it. Ask for a pre-paid label or a credit for the cost of return postage. There is no reason for you to have to accept out-of-spec equipment or pay for its return.

Keep at it...it'll all come right.

[MGySgt]

dOn,

There is always some spring back and I know that someone on here has done a test by sizing right after casting and then a day later, and then a day later, etc.... There was some growing from the boolits that were sized a day or two later, but not really enough to matter.

If your bore is .450 and your throats are 452 then you can size 452.

I don't think you will be able to chamber a .457 boolit.

remember this is suppose to be fun and uless you are anal about things, get your load to shoot acceptable to your specs and do some shooting. when you feel the round isn't accurate enough for you do some more load development.

You loading and casting techniques will get better and you can work better loads.

Just my 2 cents worth and good shooting!

[MikeS]

Two things. First you mentioned that you lubed with LLA. Did you size them while the LLA was still wet, or did you let it dry before pushing the boolits thru the die? LLA lubes much better when dry than it does when wet. If you're using LLA to tumble lube the boolits, then give them one coat before sizing, let them dry overnight, size them, then give them a second coat. If you were just using LLA to lube the boolits to get them thru the sizer, there are much better lubes for that job. On boolits that I'm going to pan lube, I'll spray them with Hornady's One Shot case lube then wait 20-30 minutes for it to dry, then I'll size, and pan lube to finish them.

Second thing is the way you're measuring them. As others have mentioned, for measuring boolits, you really should use a micrometer, rather than a caliper.

[milprileb]

I went through this long before I was a member here. I send the Lee sizing die and mold blocks back to Lee with bullets dropped, and bullets sized (same drama on hard sizing but Rock Chucker did not conk out).

Lee , inside 6 days, send repaired mold blocks back and new sizing die and all is well today.

I will say this and you can take your lumps as you want to take them. Its far easier to send product back to Lee and have it sorted out than trying all manner of remedies at home which are problematic.

My thoughts are: if made right, it works right.

I got nothing but great t hings to say about how Lee has gone out of their way many times to fix my problems and help me. The give me superb service and even when I fouled up the situation by stupidity, they just saved my bacon.

[d0n]

dOn,
I've had mine for over 27yrs now and to be honest the only direction as far as where to get micrometers is thru a search engine (GOOGLE). This is what I have:
http://global.ebay.com/BROWN-AND-SHARPE-0-1-INCH-MICS-IN-VELVET-CASE/250855064813/item

Not knowing how big of a city you live in I couldn't answer your question about getting them locally, but I would expect you couldn't. These little gems are too specialized, normally the are shipped from some sort of a supplier.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm currently looking for something similar to replace my calipers. I'll report back on the size of the boolits when I actually have a mic to use.

[d0n]

dOn, a couple of suggestions:
Harbor Freight has a mechanical digital micrometer for less than $20. I strongly suspect that it is the same as those labeled with famous names. A caliper is generally considered accurate to +/- .01". A micrometer is generally considered accurate to +/- .001". A micrometer is ten times more accurate than a caliper.

As mentiuoned, water quenching is not necessary. In fact, you may discover that a straight wheel weight alloy is too hard. Too, I agree that you should give serious consideration to a press made of cast iron. Additionally, your bench needs some major reinforcing or complete a re-do.

If, after making more accurate measurements, the sizer is, indeed, .450" rather than .452", return it. Ask for a pre-paid label or a credit for the cost of return postage. There is no reason for you to have to accept out-of-spec equipment or pay for its return.

Keep at it...it'll all come right.

lol, my calipers are actually the Harbor Freight calipers that you speak of. I'm currently looking for a good price on a mic. I've never used one outside of shop class in 8th grade; is this something I can buy second-hand and expect to still work, or are the screw mechanisms delicate enough that I should buy new so I don't have to worry about how well the previous owner cared for it?

[d0n]

dOn,

There is always some spring back and I know that someone on here has done a test by sizing right after casting and then a day later, and then a day later, etc.... There was some growing from the boolits that were sized a day or two later, but not really enough to matter.

If your bore is .450 and your throats are 452 then you can size 452.

I don't think you will be able to chamber a .457 boolit.

remember this is suppose to be fun and uless you are anal about things, get your load to shoot acceptable to your specs and do some shooting. when you feel the round isn't accurate enough for you do some more load development.

You loading and casting techniques will get better and you can work better loads.

Just my 2 cents worth and good shooting!

Thanks MGySgt. I actually am having fun, even though I still haven't cranked out any usable boolits yet. This looks like a fun hobby that I'll be able to stick with for years

[d0n]

Two things. First you mentioned that you lubed with LLA. Did you size them while the LLA was still wet, or did you let it dry before pushing the boolits thru the die? LLA lubes much better when dry than it does when wet. If you're using LLA to tumble lube the boolits, then give them one coat before sizing, let them dry overnight, size them, then give them a second coat. If you were just using LLA to lube the boolits to get them thru the sizer, there are much better lubes for that job. On boolits that I'm going to pan lube, I'll spray them with Hornady's One Shot case lube then wait 20-30 minutes for it to dry, then I'll size, and pan lube to finish them.

Second thing is the way you're measuring them. As others have mentioned, for measuring boolits, you really should use a micrometer, rather than a caliper.

Yes, they were still wet when I attempted to size. I applied the LLA right before passing it through the sizer. Never in a million years would I have guessed that they would size better after the LLA dries, but hindsight being 20/20, I guess I can see why that would make sense.

In general, I plan to pan lube after sizing (at least with my RCBS 45-270-SAA and the MiHec molds that I'm getting), so I'll keep your suggestion about the Hornady's case lube in mind.

[cajun shooter]

First, Let me say that I attended machinist school for two years which makes me a 1/2 of one. I have never had a single occasion in my over 40 years of casting and loading where the accuracy between a set of calipers and a micrometer made the least bit of difference.
Lee sizing dies only have a very narrow strip inside of them that sizes the cast bullets. The Quality of the Lee equipment is not as good as other brands when compared across the board. If you size your bullets as soon as they are dropped then they may spring back to the as cast diameter within a day or so. If you have had good service using Lee moulds and bullets then more power to you. I have never seen any type of competition that was won with the winner using Lee bullets, lube or moulds. I have some Lee that does the job that I have for it and that is fine. The quality control of the moulds has a long way to go. There was a company that sells the steel parts to fix the press linkage as it has a reputation for breaking.
If you stay with casting long enough and decide to invest into some custom moulds, then you will also need to throw away all that mule snot and use a good lube that is applied with a lube and size machine. I started with a Lee 38 spl loading kit where you used a hammer in 1968. I still have that kit. Lee does the job of getting you started for a cheap price. That is as far as they are able to go.

[d0n]

First, Let me say that I attended machinist school for two years which makes me a 1/2 of one. I have never had a single occasion in my over 40 years of casting and loading where the accuracy between a set of calipers and a micrometer made the least bit of difference.
Lee sizing dies only have a very narrow strip inside of them that sizes the cast bullets. The Quality of the Lee equipment is not as good as other brands when compared across the board. If you size your bullets as soon as they are dropped then they may spring back to the as cast diameter within a day or so. If you have had good service using Lee moulds and bullets then more power to you. I have never seen any type of competition that was won with the winner using Lee bullets, lube or moulds. I have some Lee that does the job that I have for it and that is fine. The quality control of the moulds has a long way to go. There was a company that sells the steel parts to fix the press linkage as it has a reputation for breaking.
If you stay with casting long enough and decide to invest into some custom moulds, then you will also need to throw away all that mule snot and use a good lube that is applied with a lube and size machine. I started with a Lee 38 spl loading kit where you used a hammer in 1968. I still have that kit. Lee does the job of getting you started for a cheap price. That is as far as they are able to go.

Well, the mold is RCBS (45-270-SAA) but the push-through sizer is Lee.

But while we're talking about the mold...

I think in an earlier reply I mentioned that mold doesn't completely close (if I look very carefully I can see light between the blocks when it's supposed to be closed). What is the best way to fix this?

[MGySgt]

But while we're talking about the mold...

I think in an earlier reply I mentioned that mold doesn't completely close (if I look very carefully I can see light between the blocks when it's supposed to be closed). What is the best way to fix this?

First ensure you do not have any lead on the face of the mould halfs keeping them from closing.

If that is not the problem:

Call RCBS and send it back - the alignment pins (or pin) is out too far keeping the mould from closing all the way.

Either let RCBS triage the issue or adjust the alignment pins. More nerve racking than difficult. I used my bench vice to ajust mine.

[GRUMPA]

dOn,

On micrometers you can go in more than one direction. If you go digital you get what you pay for, If you do remember one thing. You go and get one and drop it somehow (and this always seems to happen) most of the time THAT'S IT. And for the sake of splitting hairs (arguing) lets say you get them and the battery goes out, how much does a new one cost now-a-days. Not to mention when you need it you need it NOW.

And your right about the second hand stuff, but in reality it's a cr@p shoot. You'll never ever know until after you bought it if it works right for you. I really wouldn't buy "NEW" because I can't imagine what they cost now. My other pair that I sold were Swiss made called ETALON very pricey at the time.

[handyman25]

It has been covered already but I will add my two cents worth. I have done lots of gunsmithing over the last 45 years so here it goes::holysheep

Spend the money on a good 1 inch micrometer, starret is a good brand. Calibers are for rough work.

Slug your bore. I like lead boolits 1 to 2 thousand over bore.

I like lee sizers. Slug it with a lead sinker, lubed, and find out what size it is making. If wrong sell it (dislosure) or contact lee. I am sure they will make it right.

Contact RCBS on the mold, they are great and will make it right.

You are doing this the right way. Learn from others mistakes, it saves time.[smilie=s:

[Junior1942]

..... LLA lubes much better when dry than it does when wet. .....Maybe so, but I've lubed many 1,000s of cast bullets and sized them immediately afterwards. I never had a problem.

[d0n]

But while we're talking about the mold...

I think in an earlier reply I mentioned that mold doesn't completely close (if I look very carefully I can see light between the blocks when it's supposed to be closed). What is the best way to fix this?

First ensure you do not have any lead on the face of the mould halfs keeping them from closing.

If that is not the problem:

Call RCBS and send it back - the alignment pins (or pin) is out too far keeping the mould from closing all the way.

Either let RCBS triage the issue or adjust the alignment pins. More nerve racking than difficult. I used my bench vice to ajust mine.

OK, I'll give them a call today. It shouldn't be a problem if I've already used the mold? I'm sure there's no lead on the faces, I was pretty anal about getting that off after casting

[d0n]

dOn,

On micrometers you can go in more than one direction. If you go digital you get what you pay for, If you do remember one thing. You go and get one and drop it somehow (and this always seems to happen) most of the time THAT'S IT. And for the sake of splitting hairs (arguing) lets say you get them and the battery goes out, how much does a new one cost now-a-days. Not to mention when you need it you need it NOW.

And your right about the second hand stuff, but in reality it's a cr@p shoot. You'll never ever know until after you bought it if it works right for you. I really wouldn't buy "NEW" because I can't imagine what they cost now. My other pair that I sold were Swiss made called ETALON very pricey at the time.

I probably won't be getting a digital micrometer. I'm going to try a second-hand one and just hope I get one that's been cared for.

[MGySgt]

RCBS Mould you used - Send it back to RCBS.

I have a 45-230 CM. When I first starting using it - all was fine. After about 1K of boolits it wasn't closing correctly.

I checked it and double checked it - the alignment pins were out too far. I called RCBS and sent it back. Got a new mould.

After about 1K of boolits with the new mould it wasn't closing right. Checked mould - it was the alignment pins. This time I adjusted them and all is now well and has been for the last 50K or so (I shoot it A LOT in my 625 45ACP).

By the way. I have the RCBS 270 - 45 - it is a great boolit for plinking in 45 Colt or hunting in 45 Colt. Just depends on how you load it. For hunting I like it a little over 1,000 FPS out of my 5.5 in RBH.

[462]

lol, my calipers are actually the Harbor Freight calipers that you speak of. I'm currently looking for a good price on a mic. I've never used one outside of shop class in 8th grade; is this something I can buy second-hand and expect to still work, or are the screw mechanisms delicate enough that I should buy new so I don't have to worry about how well the previous owner cared for it?

Actually, I mentioned a Harbor Freight micrometer, not a caliper.

[d0n]

Actually, I mentioned a Harbor Freight micrometer, not a caliper.

Sorry, didn't catch that. That's what I get for posting at work :D

[noylj]

d0n wrote: A micrometer is ten times more accurate than a caliper.
So, a caliper is good to 0.01", multiply by 10 and we get 0.1". That's not what you meant. This is a very hard thing to word correctly. Maybe we could say it has at least a 0.1 better resolution? Still not right, though. Very hard to word using colloquial English.

[d0n]

d0n wrote: A micrometer is ten times more accurate than a caliper.
So, a caliper is good to 0.01", multiply by 10 and we get 0.1". That's not what you meant. This is a very hard thing to word correctly. Maybe we could say it has at least a 0.1 better resolution? Still not right, though. Very hard to word using colloquial English.

I didn't write that. I get what you're saying though ;)

[462]

I wrote it, and thanks for understanding what I meant. Maybe, someone with a scientific or machinist background can explain it better.

[wiljen]

A micrometer is capable of measuring things an order of magnitude more precisely than a caliper.

This means that a caliper with a +/- .001 average error could measure a .4527 slug and give you a result anywhere from .451 to .454 and still be within spec for the device.

A Micrometer with a standard of +/- .0001 would give a result between .4526 and .4528 for the same slug.

[flashhole]

Lee offers a .451, .452 and .454 push through sizer. My .401 is exactly that ... .401 if your die is producing bullets that measure .450 and you are confident in your measurement the die may be in error.

[cajun shooter]

I made comment about the Lee equipment as a answer to your breaking the linkage of your Lee press. My answer about the difference between a caliper and a micrometer was in answer to a early posting and further addressed by wiljen. I am sorry that I failed to cover the mould problem but you have been given that from another poster. Have a Nice Day

[Recluse]

To swage them down .004" to .005" you need copious LLA lube on the bullets & die and a heavy duty press like the Lee Classic Cast. Like gasboffer said, your mold is too big.

Yep. You're making the equipment do a job it was not designed to do.


If you want to size down more than .003, you probably want to do it in more than 1 step.

I have always needed lube whenever using a push through sizer.

I have a couple of boolits that I size down significantly as well, but I do it in steps--not all at once.

Never had a problem.

:coffee:

[MikeS]

Lee sizing dies only have a very narrow strip inside of them that sizes the cast bullets.

Are boolits sized better when the sizing portion of the die is wider? I have several of the Lee push thru sizers (the type that mount in a standard reloading press), as well as a few of the pound thru Lee sizers, and they all work exactly as they are designed to. Boolits springing back when sized soon after being cast is not something limited to the Lee sizers, but will happen with any sizer.

As for quality control, unfortunately it seems like most all companies in the reloading business have poor QC as is seen with the new Lyman moulds, and lately with RCBS & SAECO as well. :( It seems that to get a good boolit mould these days the smaller custom makers (Mihec, NOE, Accurate Molds, etc.) are the way to go, you get what you want, and with most of them, you can tell them what alloy you're using, and get moulds that will cast the proper diameter.

[flashhole]

I must be pretty lucky. The only real **** I've had amongst all the reloading equipment I own has come from Hornady. Tried to correct that situation with their customer service and was treated poorly.