New Weapons for our soldiers

[markinalpine]

A few new goodies in the works:
.50 Cal Machine Gun
Improved 60mm Mortar
Deadlier Tank Round
Army Times Article (http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/07/army-new-lighter-deadlier-weapons-073011w/)

Mark [smilie=w:

[no34570]

Sounds good,about the .50 cal and the new mortar round,but do they really want to shut down the tanks????
I think they will end up kicking themselves if they shut down the tank programme???

[Hardcast416taylor]

Not a real smart idea to be shutting off tank production.Robert

[wgr]

Not a real smart idea to be shutting off tank production.Robert

i agree sounds like the bean counters at work

[Finster101]

Nothing clears a house the way a 120mm gun does.

[CPL Lou]

Nothing clears a house the way a 120mm gun does.

AMEN BROTHER !!!!! :Fire:

[nicholst55]

We as a nation will regret the decision to halt tank production, just as we regret the loss of the ability to cast armored vehicle hulls and turrets.

[Multigunner]

South Korea builds a tank designed from the ground up for operating in mountainous terrain. I've long thought the U S should buy a bunch of those tanks for use in Afghanistan and along the Paki border.

Besides the SK tank's mobility on tight mountain trails, the hull has remarkable ability to raise oor lower, when raised the hull and turret can be tilted to fire over the edge of a cliff while hidden from the enemy below.
This sort of flexibility made the German 88mm guns such effective anti-tank weapons as well as anti-aircraft weapons, and besides engaging ground targets the 88mm could also engage low flying ground attack aircraft while hidden behind ramparts.

Flexibility will be a major plus in any new armor designs.

Also the most recent Russian anti-tank shoulder fired weapons have long caught up with present heavy tank protections. These weapons were developed as bunker and pill box busters, and have more than enough punch to take out any conceivable tank we can field if we rely on armor alone.
They make an RPG look like a slingshot.

PS
An updated version of the old "Ontos" would be a bad motorscooter for urban combat. Especially with twin Vulcans on top of twin recoiless rifles.

[nicholst55]

PS
An updated version of the old "Ontos" would be a bad motorscooter for urban combat. Especially with twin Vulcans on top of twin recoiless rifles.

As long as you're not the guy(s) who have to dismount to reload the recoiless rifles... Doctrine called for the Ontos to retire to a 'secure' location in order to reload the six 106mm recoiless rifles.

FWIW, nearly all of the Abrams tanks destroyed in Iraq became disabled for one reason or another, and it was deemed impractical to recover them due to the tactical situation. Even repeated hits with 120mm rounds from other tanks fail to destroy them, so air strikes are called in to render them useless to the bad guys. Maybe the Russians, Chinese and North Koreans have AT weapons capable of destroying an Abrams, but haji doesn't - yet.

Abrams tanks use a variation of Chobham armour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobham_armour) made with metal plates, ceramics tiles, and air gaps, that detonate explosive warheads some distance away from the main hull or turret. This reduces their effectiveness in creating suprheated plasma jets to penetrate the vehicle. Late models of the Abrams supplement this armor with additional steel and depleted uranium armor.

But you probably knew all that.

As for the lightweight .50 machine gun, FN has been selling a lighter version of the M2 with fixed headspace for many years. The US simply declined (refused?) to buy it. Not invented here, you know.

[Got-R-Did]

Since the Army has fielded the 249 SAW and the 240B (both made by FN) not much merit in the conclusion of NMI or Not My Idea. My Father started out with the M44 Bulldog and worked up to the M60A3 during his career and Tanks are more than a passing curiosity for me. Thank you for the link, very informative.
Don't know what the future holds for Heavy Armor in tomorrow's Armed Forces, but I simply can not believe it will be done away with. Ft. Knox has recently undergone a base re-alignment and is no longer the primary traning facility for tanks.
Nicoslt55, I see you are in Korea. I was blessed to visit Panmunjom in the early 90's when my Sister in Law was stationed in Yangson Army Base in Seoul City. She was a Nurse and Cpt. at the hospital there. Loved the food, beer, and people, but learned to avoid the soju after a single sip of that paint thinner. Stay Safe.
Got-R-Did.

[Chicken Thief]

I see a A-10 thing coming about.
An upgrade is due. What about a small "Goalkeeper" on the turret?
Sure it will stick up like a sore thumb, but it will fend for itself and them some!

[white eagle]

I want one !

[gew98]

Since the Army has fielded the 249 SAW and the 240B (both made by FN) not much merit in the conclusion of NMI or Not My Idea. My Father started out with the M44 Bulldog and worked up to the M60A3 during his career and Tanks are more than a passing curiosity for me. Thank you for the link, very informative.
Don't know what the future holds for Heavy Armor in tomorrow's Armed Forces, but I simply can not believe it will be done away with. Ft. Knox has recently undergone a base re-alignment and is no longer the primary traning facility for tanks.
Nicoslt55, I see you are in Korea. I was blessed to visit Panmunjom in the early 90's when my Sister in Law was stationed in Yangson Army Base in Seoul City. She was a Nurse and Cpt. at the hospital there. Loved the food, beer, and people, but learned to avoid the soju after a single sip of that paint thinner. Stay Safe.
Got-R-Did.

I think it was a week or so ago in the "Turret" paper the article about the last class of graduation Armor MOSQ at Knox. The Patton Museum is but a shell of itself since they moved most of everything to Benning wiht the Armor School.
On the 249 though... when I first got one as a grunt in the mid 80's... oh jeez louise were they ever a raging ***. One out of three would work reliably and none worked with the 30 round magazines. All the ball was LC but the tracers were cupronickel jacketed Belgian made and were rather more pink in color going downrange than M196 or M856 tracers. I never did det the reason why all the early 249 ammo had belgian tracers instead of M856 tracer... I assumed the M856 was not yet then reliable in the 249. Got a good friend down the road in Irvington that spent 21 years armor...he started out on M151 Sheridans assigned to the 82nd. I'll have to ask him if he ever played around wiht the M44. He says all the time that the tanks he served on are all in museums ( he retired in '91 ). My father in law was in armor from 64-67 and the first time he met 'bubba' they talked for hours about M48 and M60 variants they rode on !.

[Got-R-Did]

GEW98, I think the Sheridan was the M551 with the 152 MM Shillelagh Missile System, but I know yours was just a keystroke error. The Patton Museum is undergoing an extensive upgrade to house the History of the Infantry (relying on faulty memory here), and you are right about virtually all the static displays in Keyes Park are now at Ft. Benning. I don't get up that way much anymore unless it is to drop off my deer at Webb's Butcher Block for processing in Payneville, at least since they stopped hosting John C. Garand Memorial Matches at Scott Mountain KD Range. We moved to Valley Station when my Father retired in 76, and they still live there. Our neighborhood on post was right under the final approach for Rotor craft at Godman Army Airfield. Good Times back then.
Got-R-Did.

[EOD3]

The Sheridan had a 152MM main gun that fired some interesting ammunition. Not suitable for the KE ammunition they use today. Smaller ammunition, more rounds in the locker. :-)

[gew98]

Got-R-Did ; Funny , half my neighbors in my very rural area moved from valley station , and I actually messed up the Sheridan nomenclature because I have the M151 "jeep" on the membrane ( they were fun little things and actually hard to break , but real dang easy to rollover ! ) .
The old fella has a fired case from the "shillelagh" main gun munition. He hated that missle projectile as it was about as accurate as tossing a rock at something in a hurricane and had to be handled with kid gloves. He recounted that the master blaster was in such a bad spot that to reach it and crank it was seriously hazardous and he lost a man in one of his tanks as a result of it when the gun fired and the recoiling breechblock crushed the poor fellows head. And of course the recoil of standard HE rounds which would rock the Aluminum tank like a boat hitting a big wave head on. The old fellow related that at times they would take wads of grease and swab the bore of their main gun on the M60 & M48 tanks during night fire to produce one massive flaming bang !. What soldiers did for fun.... and still do.
As for the Patton museum it's pretty much done for what they are going to display and it's sadly pathetic now.
The only time I ever encountered Sheridans when Fort Irwin used them for VISMODS in OPFOR training the handfull of times I got sent out there.
Alot of the locals tell me Webbs does some great venison sausage - payneville is but a couple miles form me , but when you take a deer to them you get the same "poundage" but not the meat from your animal. Last time I took a deer to a butcher in KY they gave me freezer burned meat from the season before...that was over ten years ago so I prep , cut and freeze them myself since then. I think this coming season I will take all my stew meat cuts and take them to Webbs for the summer sausage treatment and see how that turns out.

[Got-R-Did]

GEW98
While it is true that you get the equivilant of your meat in return for the processed products such as summer sausage, snack sticks, jerky, etc, that is a function of batches that will weigh up to 700 lbs each. The meat in steaks, chops, roasts, etc will be from your own deer, I know this for a fact. Marty and his Son, Tre, have processed many deer for me over the last 20 years. Fine Family indeed, give them a try this season. Hell, tell them I sent you!
I too have a case from the Sheridan's main gun; traded an older steel 105MM casing that I acquired from my Father's C.O. way back when. I still have my driver's license from when I qualified on the M151A1 and the "Sedan" at the Military Police Academy in Ft. McClellan, AL.
You are right, they are easily tipped, and this is even worse when you happen to have an M60 in a pintle mount at the time, don't ask me how I know.
Cheers,
Got-R-Did.