Game/Boolit/Velocity "effectiveness" poll

[TCLouis]

Just what I said, a compilation of information for those of us that are "information junkies".


Cartridge
Boolit (diameter, designation (ie RNFP, RN etc)
Alloy and treatment if any WW, WDWW,OHWDWW, etc
Lube
Powder
Powder charge weight (VERY optional)
BOOLIT Velocity
Game Species
Distance from Shooter to Game
Location of boolit impact
Shot distance
Game reaction to boolit impact
Distance game traveled after shot
Autopsy report with supporting information as available.

Now I am off to pour lead!

Can't shoot because is raining and looks like it is here for the day.

[versifier]

Cartridge: .30-30
Boolit: Lee 150gn FNGC
Alloy: WW
Lube: LLA
Powder: RE7
Weight: I don't ask personal questions
Velocity: Faster than a deer
Game: Whitetail Deer
Location of Boolit Impact: Other side of hill out back
Shot Distance: No, medium distance
Game Reaction to Shot: Died
Distance Game Traveled: Half mile to freezer
Autopsy Report: Dead
Supporting Information: Kitchen table

[L Ross]

Used a Rossi 92 clone a couple of seasons ago in 44-40 to kill three whitetails.
Bullet for all three Lyman 429215 w/ GC, alloy ACWW, lube Felix, powder Herc 2400, charge 21.0 gr. Velocity from 20" bbl approx. 1,500 fps. First deer, doe fawn range 42 paces slightly quartering away heart shot, spun and run 32 steps, 1 1/2 " exit, heart fell apart when removed from chest into three pieces. Second deer was w/fawn, decent 8 point buck, we were under earn a buck rule. Range also 42 paces, the buck turned to look where the fawn fell, so facing straight away, shot in the back of the neck 3" below skull, bullet exited the mouth. A neck vertebrae was powdered, instant death. Deer 3, adult doe, range 22 paces, hard quartering facing. Shot in front of right shoulder, thru heart out behind left shoulder, 1" exit, heart was hamburger. Deer ran in a semi circle of perhaps 100 ft.

L Ross

[Boz330]

Whitetail
1875 C-Sharps in 38-55
250gr Lee RNFP pure lead
47gr 2F Swiss
Homemade Lube from I think MT Charlie's formula.
Did not chrono, but would guess about 1350 to 1400.
Front quartering shot at 85yd. Bullet entered behind right shoulder,mid line, and exited in front of left ham. Deer ran into a wood lot started bleeding after about 100yd found dead about 50 yd from there. Internally bullet got right lung, and liver. There was considerable bruising of the shoulder even though the bullet did not hit it. Exit was slightly larger than bullet diameter.

Bob

[Big D]

375 Marlin
375449- 280 GR
Alox
1550 Fps
Feral Bar Hog, going away 50 yards. entered left ham broke hip, penetrated thru stomach, cut aorta off top of heart lost in neck. ran 30 yards and tipped over. 300+ lb.

[Bass Ackward]

2 deer of the exact same size, standing one behind the other at the same time, the same distance, the same rest position, both solid shots, same, same, same.

Deer #1

Cartridge: 458X2
Boolit: 375gr LBT LFN RNFP
Alloy and treatment: WDWW @ 24 BHN
Lube: LBT Blue
Powder: H4895
Powder charge weight: 52 grains
BOOLIT Velocity: 1850 fps
Game Species: WT deer
Distance from Shooter to Game: 62 yards
Location of boolit impact: Behind front shoulder
Game reaction to boolit impact: Hunched
Distance game traveled after shot: Death run low to the ground
for about 85 yards, blood trail
a blind man could follow on hands and knees.
Autopsy report: 1 1/2" exit hole.


Deer #2

Cartridge: 458X2
Boolit: 375gr LBT LFN RNFP
Alloy and treatment: WDWW @ 24 BHN
Lube: LBT Blue
Powder: H4895
Powder charge weight: 52 grains
BOOLIT Velocity: 1850 fps
Game Species: WT deer
Distance from Shooter to Game: 62 yards
Location of boolit impact: Same spot behind front shoulder
Game reaction to boolit impact: Deer was watching the first deer run off
trying to figure what was wrong with her. NO physical reaction to the shot. Finally walked off towards the other deer. A cone of hair for 10 ft that looked like a one dimensional ice cream cone but no blood. The deer traveled for over 700 yards before I lost the track without any signs of blood or staggering. Found next day.
Autopsy report: 1 1/2" exit hole.

[MT Gianni]

Bass A, Just because we have shot 40 or 50 we think we know what they all will do. You can't measure mental toughness by looking at a person we shouldn't try to do it with an animal. Some of all of us just have a stronger nature. I have killed a pheasant dead dropping without moving with only one pellet found in the abdominal region none elsewhere even in the head. I have seen game take more punishment than they should with out giving a sign of being hit. I broke both upper leg bones, canon bone?, just under the shoulder blades of a spike Whitetail a few years ago. 308 @ 2650 fps 125 yd shot 150 gr j word bullets. He went down immediatly then got back up and hobbled about 80 yards before lying down again. It took one more in the ear hole to put him down. Sometimes we get the odd thing happening. Gianni.

[Bass Ackward]

Bass A, Just because we have shot 40 or 50 we think we know what they all will do. You can't measure mental toughness by looking at a person we shouldn't try to do it with an animal. Some of all of us just have a stronger nature. I have killed a pheasant dead dropping without moving with only one pellet found in the abdominal region none elsewhere even in the head. I have seen game take more punishment than they should with out giving a sign of being hit. I broke both upper leg bones, canon bone?, just under the shoulder blades of a spike Whitetail a few years ago. 308 @ 2650 fps 125 yd shot 150 gr j word bullets. He went down immediatly then got back up and hobbled about 80 yards before lying down again. It took one more in the ear hole to put him down. Sometimes we get the odd thing happening. Gianni.


Gianni,

I made no comment. I just filled in the data. My purpose for that was to stimulate thought on both what is required for hunting and maybe the value of collecting such data. Your point adds to that.

If you would like a comment from me, I can tell you this is the point in my life that I gave up on hard lead for hunting. At least deer anyway. And I have never had this example repeaded for at least the 100 or so that have occurred since.

This was not an issue of survival strength I don't believe. Please go back and re-read the data again. Lung damage with no blood. The hard bullet had missed any large blood vessels and clotted the little ones. It must not have transfered much shock. While I was tracking that doe, I actually caught glimpses of her feeding from time to time moving ahead of me. I was using opens and there was no sign of her being hit or I would have put another one into her. Didn't want to shoot another deer until I got the one I was tracking. When we found her the next day is when I realized it had been her all along.

Dad shot one about two days later with the exact same load at about 90 yards. Blew the same size hole and the animal never registered the hit. He thought he had missed it. I walked the area towards him and bounced the deer as it had been laying down. This was up the hill, about 200 yards from where he shot her, and almost an hour later. When I spooked her up, she jumped a 4" high timber fall and was leaving the area appearing to be unharmed. I thought this was another deer, so I caught her in the back of the head with a 44 that ended the chase. Then as I moved towards her, I passed her bloody bed where she had just started to bleed and of coarse we saw the damage from his efforts earlier.

[Junior1942]

Bass, looks like you water drop those bullets. At 1850 fps, air cooled and plenty of lube will work fine with no leading, and you'll get much better results on game.

[Ranch Dog]

Marlin 1895MR (450 Marlin), TLC460-425-RF (31 BHN) and one large hog. 60-yard. Lower lungs at 60-yards. Never moved a muscle and no blood on the ground.
Marlin 444T (444 Marlin), TLC432-285-RF (31 BHN), and whitetail buck (8-pt @ 134BC) at 165-yards. Broadside, heart, 35-yards in two leaps and no blood.
Marlin 375 (375 Win), TLC379-210-RF (27 BHN), and whitetail doe at 50-yards. Broadside, heart/lungs, went 60-yards at a fast walk as straight as an arrow in very thick brush. Blood everywhere.

All three of these critters had 1 1/2" to 2 1/4" knocked through them.

I see a lot of critters get shot here on the ranch, more than most hunters will see in a decade of hunting. Sometimes it's just a mystery as to why a critter doesn't succumb to a large hole knocked through it.

I've been using hard-cast (27-31 BHN) water quenched linotype/WWs with big meplats (at least 72% of caliber) at high velocity and have had excellent results. I tried the air-cooled WW at lower velocities (to avoid leading and poor accuracy) and lost some game. Poor holes through hogs that plugged up with cartilage and fat resulting in poor blood trails through our heavy thorn tickets.

[MT Gianni]

Bass I was more puzzled by the different results with the 2 animals than anything else. I found out also harder and faster doesn't give me the results I want on deer after a bullet blow up that killed a whitetail but from shock not penetration. Gianni.

[waksupi]

I'm also one who is surprised at the differences in how animals react. From the deer and elk I have shot with cast, none have moved over 35-40 yards. I've had antelope go maybe 100 yards when at a hard run, before piling up. the majority of animals I have shot, have not moved at all.

[GLynn41]

.41 mag Lyman 410459 wieght 227 gr- 20 H110 vel. 1200-1250 - 100# spike 40 yards - heart shot --bullet hole in the heart was about thumbe size --my thumb that is--drq dead real quick -- wounded doe .41 240 lbt 22.5 296 5.5 Redhawk - jumped several times - so several shots - entrance holes at 25-30 yards were over .80 and tended to curl out-in neither case was a bullet caught -- spkie --6" DWA 18.5 gr of 296 chest on shot bullet was .41 285gr DAB--Dual alloy bullet ssk mold -- soft point-- hit expanded found under the skin in the hip after complete front to rear pent weight 100+ the first deer rand 30-40 yards dropped -- second ran a long ways asuntil I finally got a good shot--the last one dropped

[Glen]

Cartridge -- 338 GEF Contender (.356 Winchester necked down to .338)
Boolit -- Lyman 33889 HP (.340" 238 grain hollow point)
Alloy and treatment -- 2 parts range scrap to 1 part linotype (BHN = 13), air cooled
Lube -- 50/50 besswax and moly grease
Powder -- 46.0 grains of H4831
Velocity -- 1600 fps (12" Contender)
Game Species -- feral hog (about 250 lbs)
Distance from Shooter to Game -- about 40 yards
Location of boolit impact -- center of the ribcage
Game reaction to boolit impact -- none, he just turned and trotted away from me
Distance game traveled after shot -- 15-20 feet
Autopsy report -- the cast HP expanded well and punched right on through. There was a hole about the size of a quarter all the way through the lungs, surrounded by about 6" of severely bloodshot lung tissue. Exit hole in the far side was about the size of a quarter, lots of pink frothy blood.

[frank505]

505 Gibbs 600 grain gas check flat point with 140 grains WC 860, 215 primer, Bell cases. A certain one shot stop on hogs, no matter where hit. The best was a friend hit one facing east from the west, the guts were blown out and the bullet exited right behind the right ear.
405 WCF from a japchester 1895, whitetail buck at 25 feet, 310 grain gas check flat point, 53 grains or Re 7 for about 2260. Exited on abroadside rib cage shot, blood trail was enormous, he ran into Franc's fork of the Greybull and somersaulted. Hole was tremendous through the chest.
405 WCF same as above, pretty nice bull elk at 40 or 50 yards, First shot went through chest and lungs, he turned and I said a quick prayer of thakns to Teddy Roosevelt and Elmer Keith for the rifle size and busted the left hip. Bull ran 50 yards and rolled down the hill. No autopsy was performed due to the lack of light and the proximity of a grizzly kill. Dreesed it and left. Returned the next day and packed it out on our backs, with no gizzy bears present.(thwt we know of)
500 Linebaugh, 450 grain keith bullet, 23 grains of WC 820 for 1077 fps. Cow bison from behind the left side of head, almost exited the skull but the hide snapped it back. Not sure where it entered but she dropped hard.
One heck of a lot of jackrabbits and prairie dogs with 45 Colt, 475 Liebaugh and even a 44. every porcupine I find also. A bunch of whitetails, bucks and does, all with an Elmer Keith design bullet since they work at all ranges and speeds.

[Larry Gibson]

I'll throw one in just for S's & G's;

Cartridge; .44 Special / converted M28 S&W 4" barrel
Boolit ; Lyman 429421
Alloy and treatment if any; WW, air cooled
Lube; Javelina
Powder; 2400
Powder charge weight (VERY optional); I don't mind - 16.5 gr
BOOLIT Velocity; 1060 fps (Oehler chronograph)
Game Species; Mule Deer buck
Distance from Shooter to Game; 24 paces
Location of boolit impact; center of chest in brisket
Shot distance; ? - same as "distance from Shooter to Game"
Game reaction to boolit impact; fron knees buckled, stood back up and staggered off to it's right. I did not shoot again as lots of blood was spurting out the hole in it's chest.
Distance game traveled after shot; about 25 yards
Autopsy report with supporting information as available; bullet traveled straight through chest cutting vessels across top of heart, left crease between both lungs and lodged in paunch. I did not attempt to retrieve the bullet for obvios reasons.

Larry Gibson

[MtGun44]

The warthog in the pic on the left was shot with Elmer Kieth's
load (20gr 2400, 250 gr 429421, .430 diam, LBT Blue, S&W 629 6.5"
ported, 44mag ~1350-1400 fps) Warthog was at 65 yds, hit 2" high
and aft of ideal, call it a high lung shot. Spun 180 degrees instantly
at the shot. I saw the blood mark on the far side, so knew I had a
decent hit. He took off at max warp speed and we heard a LOUD
crack as he ran full tilt into a tree about 30 yds away, dead before
he hit the tree (hard to steer when you're dead). Broke one tusk,
being fixed at the taxidermist.

Second warthog was a high angle shot (topdown) at about 25 yds,
same load. Broke the nearside shoulder and exited in the opposite
armpit after passing thru the heart. Turned and ran 20 yds at the
shot, dropped and never moved again, dead before we got to him.

Alloy was 50/50 lino/Pb as cast, no heat treat.

The PH insisted on buying the rest of my ammo for his Dad who
hunts bushpigs with a .44 contender and needed some good
ammo.

Elmer was right. :-D

Bill

[Glen]

Cartridge -- 454 Casull
Boolit -- Lyman 452629 (300 grain GC flat point)
Alloy and treatment -- water quenched WW (BHN = 18)
Lube -- 50/50 beeswax and moly grease
Powder -- 30.0 grains of H110
Velocity -- 1650 fps (7.5" FA revolver)
Game Species -- American bison (young bull, about 800 lbs)
Distance from Shooter to Game -- 30 yards
Location of boolit impact -- low in the left shoulder, broke leg and hit the heart
Game reaction to boolit impact -- reared up on hind legs, then ran 20-25 yards; after a second shot (through both lungs) he ran 20 feet and went down for good.
Total distance game traveled after being shot -- about 35 yards
Autopsy report -- The first shot broke the front left leg, cut the heart, damaged the front lobes of both lungs and exited behind the right leg. He was obviously hit hard, staggering on 3 legs, with his head low. The second shot went through both lungs and put him down fairly quickly, with significant damage to both lungs. No evidence of any significant expansion. Both shots exited.

[L Ross]

About 2 weeks ago I went on another buffalo shoot, during the extreme cold spell.
45x2.1"
Lyman 457677 a tapered, pointed target bullet @ 490 gr. Rasped about 50 grains off the nose to a .350" meplat.
1 in 20 alloy
Emmerts Lube with lanolin added
75 gr Goex 2 fg compressed .320"
.030" card wad
1200 fps
Buffalo cow approx. 12 yrs. old, est 1,100 live wgt.
130 yards quartering away
hit in middle of right ribcage, passed thru center of heart, not recovered
cow bucked and even though I had second cartridge between the fingers of my left hand she was down before I could reload
traveled about two buffalo lengths was on her feet less than 5 seconds after impact

L Ross

[Junior1942]

. . . . traveled about two buffalo lengths was on her feet less than 5 seconds after impact

L RossAnd then. . . ?

[SharpsShooter]

Rifle: 75 C Sharps
Cartridge: 45-70
Boolit: Lyman 457125 530gr
Alloy and treatment: OAWW
Lube: BullShop’s #2
Powder: Goex Cartridge
Powder charge weight: 55 grains
BOOLIT Velocity: 1200 fps
Game Species: WT deer
Distance from Shooter to Game: 125 yards
Location of boolit impact: Quartering away, boolit entered mid rib and exited behind offside shoulder.

Game reaction to boolit impact: the deer was spun completely around and knocked down. It staggered to it’s feet and managed to make it about 50yds into the brush. Pieces of rib from the offside were found at the point of the shot and were nearly 3” in length.

[L Ross]

And then,

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/Walnuthill/Picture033.jpg


L Ross

[L Ross]

And then,

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/Walnuthill/100_0184.jpg

L Ross

[44man]

I knew a guy that shot a small doe with a 12 ga slug but got a bad hit. He tracked it in the snow and each time he caught up, he shot her again. It took him 11 hits to keep her down. There was not a ribbon of edible meat left.
The very best hits will lose a deer once in a while. Doesn't matter what they are shot with or how far, it happens. I lost a deer once hit with a 7mm-08. Every tree she brushed had lung tissue caught on it and there was frothy blood on the ground. She quit bleeding, never stopped or laid down. Her tracks went onto a trail full of tracks so I could not track any more. I searche all day, nothing.

[44man]

I just went over your figures. How in the world do you get 1200 fps with 55 gr's of Goex CTG?
72 gr's of Swiss 1-1/2 gets 1231, 64 gets 1132, 68 is 1175, 74 only gets 1232.
80 gr's of Goex CTG only gets 1154 fps. 78 gets 1159, 67 is only 1043 fps.
These are with gov't boolits from 500 to 528 gr's, Rapine, Lyman.

[redbear705]

And then. . . ?




:-D

I had to read it twice myself!

JR

[wickerbill]

74 Sharps
Cartridge: 45-70
Boolit: 525 Gr. Hock nose pore
Alloy and treatment: 20 to 1:none
lube: SPG
Powder: 1.5 Swiss BP
Powder charge weight: 67.5 Gr
BOOLIT Velocity: not known
Game Species: WT deer
Distance from Shooter to Game: 87 steps
Location of boolit impact: left sholder
Game reaction to boolit impact: left leg floped over teh back and deer turned a flip and landed on it left side, stone cold dead.
Distance game traveled after shot: about a foot and a half sideways to the right.
Autopsy report: found the bullet in a tree about seven feet form where the derr was standing. It was getting dark so I took care of the deer and came back the next day and dug the boolit out of the tree trunk. No expantion, the left side of the boolitdown to the grease groves was gone.