Old model 12 Remington

[fatelk]

I have an old Remington model 12a .22 that I got with a couple of other old low-value rifles from a friend who needed money. Another friend wants it, but I don't really know what kind of value it has. I have mixed feelings about selling it, but unfortunately already said I would. I usually don't sell a neat old gun, especially if the value is low and I don't hate it.

I know it's not collectible anymore because of condition. I would call it fair because it is shootable. I had to replace the firing pin, and repair or replace a couple other small parts as well as the hammer spring. The wood is good (not great but good- no gouges or cracks). The metal has pitting in places, and someone painted it black, poor man's reblue I guess. The bore is poor. I hope it has enough rifling left to shoot OK, but I haven't shot it at a target yet.

I'm having trouble figuring out when it was made. The serial number is 540xxx, which I think is late teens, early 20's, but everything I find about it references a date code which I think is for later guns.

One interesting thing I found by comparing it with my other model 12: I have wondered when it was made, and narrowed it down pretty good based on patent dates.
This one has patent dates of "Jan.5, 1909" and "Oct.12, 1909" and so on to 1912.
My other one I've had for some time (a model 12c that doesn't say model 12 anywhere on it) simply says "Pedersen's Patent Jan.5, 1909. Other patents pending".

I love these old guns, even beat up and worn out. I'm kind of regretting saying I would sell it. He hasn't seen it yet so maybe he won't want it because of condition. Maybe it won't hit the broad side of the barn and is just a rat-shot wall-hanger.:)

Any info or comments will be appreciated.

[frnkeore]

Based on how you discribe it, I would say $150. If he's a really good friend, $100. I have a 12c myself in excellet condition and they seem to go for $400-500. I like the C's much better. They have more classic lines. So, maybe i'm low on the A's. One thing to consider....... I've had some not so good experiances selling to friends. Sometimes they get buyers remorse and run the guns down AFTER buying.

Frank

[Taylor]

I paid $300. for mine and it needed a couple of minor repair's.

[quack1]

I think the date codes didn't start until around 1920. Go to rimfirecentral.com and then go to the Remington section and ask.
I have a 12c with the single patent date and no "Model 12" stamping like yours. Serial number is 49,xxx and it was made in 1910 (second year of production), according to rimfirecentral.
I paid $20 dollars for it, but it needed a couple parts, a forend, about 6 hrs draw filing and then another 3 with grit paper, rebluing, de-oiling and refinishing the stock and a barrel liner.
I was able to do all the work myself and have less than $70 in it, and now it looks good and shoots good.

[John Taylor]

Lowest price I could find on one at Gun Broker was $185 starting bid, description follows.

"Up for bid is a Remington model 12 takedown slide action rifle in 22 S, L, or LR caliber with a 22" round barrel having a pitted bore throughout. The metal surfaces exhibit a dark brown patina with a few scattered specks of older rust. The straight grip walnut butt stock rates about very good with numerous light scratches and handling marks and a faint 1/2" crack (quite sound) behind the receiver. This rifle is missing many parts including the inner magazine tube assembly, forearm, rear sight, breech block, butt plate, and who knows what other small internal parts. A good solid rifle that would be a good project piece or to use for its remaining parts."

[fatelk]

Well, it will hit the broad side of a barn; even better it will hit the broad side of a dinner plate at 30 yards, but not much better than that. I got 6" patterns at 30 yards. Not so good. I have a feeling that he won't be interested in it now.

I wish I had the tools and know-how to reline barrels. I have three old rimfires that would benefit greatly from it, but are just not worth paying a good gunsmith to work on.

[txbirdman]

I like the Model 12's. Engineer was way ahead of the winchesters of that day. I bought one about like the "gunbroker" rifle described above last year from a friend for $100. It's a good shooter.

[gnoahhh]

Check the crown. Even a rough bore can shoot good but if it's getting interfered with at the crown :(


Ditto that. My 12C has an absolutely horrible bore but is accurate enough to dance an empty beer can across a vacant lot. I keep meaning to send it out for a liner, but...

[roysha]

Well, if you are the least bit handy with tools you could buy the piloted drill, 3 liners and a chamber reamer for the cost of 1 liner job at the average "gunsmith" and do it yourself. It for sure isn't brain surgery!

[fatelk]

Well, I finally took the time to take a close look at it. Can you say "What crown?"

The muzzle will swallow a .22 bullet up to the brass. There is no rifling left at all at the crown. No wonder it's not accurate. I used to work for a gunsmith as a machinist, but mostly did boring production work on a milling machine; don't have a lot of experience on a lathe, nor do I currently have access to a lathe.

I think this old rifle will just go in the closet for now as another "someday project".

[docone31]

That would be a shame. Those are good rifles.
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=717450&catid=4250
A thought.

[fatelk]

I did see those new barrels from Numrich. They are cheaper than having a competent smith do a liner. I considered it, but right now can't justify spending any money on it so it will have to be a project for another day. I have very little invested in it as is.

Maybe someday I'll have access to a lathe and figure out how to line all three.

One of the things I had to repair: it wouldn't feed at first. The bullet noses would hit the left side of the chamber. I figured out that the extractor was wore so bad it wouldn't hold the rim enough to feed properly. I took the extractor out, took my cheapo welder (don't flame me too bad), and built the end of the extractor up. I ground it back down and shaped it with a file until it works perfectly. This old thing was about worn out.

[roysha]

I have had horrible results from a very popular "gunsmith" on 22 liners.
Did you leave out having a lathe, skill in using it and caring about the end results?

Nonsense!

If one hasn't the skills to do the job, that is one thing, but this is a job that anyone with reasonable mechanical skills can do with minimal tools, ( drill motor, piloted drill, chamber reamer, mill smooth file and a round end piece of brass with lapping compound to finish the crown). I have done it many times using a drill motor, although I do use the lathe when it is convenient, and have had excellent results every time. By excellent results, I mean barely discernible joint ring on muzzle, clean, proper chamber and accuracy that is at minimum acceptable and in most cases very good. We're not talking match guns here.

Please define "horrible results".

In regards your "gunsmith", if he can't install a liner properly perhaps he should be in a different field of endeavor.

As for finding a used barrel: that is fine but you will still need to index it to match the extactor slots (which will in all probability need to be recut), the roll marking and sights and chances are rechambering will also be in order.

[roysha]

Bill W.

See PM.

roysha

[fatelk]

Maybe another topic on this should be started so we don't hijack this one.
Hijack away! I'm curious now.

I have this model 12A, another 12C that is nearly as bad but still shoots OK (barely), and last but not least an old Stevens Favorite in .25 rimfire that I would like to line to .22 LR.