My "New" Saeco Micro Adjust Powder Measure

[seagiant]

Hi,
I started a thread on some Hollywood powder measures that I acquired and really like for press mounted powder measures. A member here (skeettex) mentioned the Saeco Micro Adjust measures and I started doing some research. There appears that there were 3 generations of this measure this one being the Gen.#2. This measure it seems was used in the benchrest game in the 50 and 60's!

I started to look to see if I could find one at a good price and was surprised when one came up here on the swap/sell site. A member here (Roundnoser) had one for sale and I grabbed it! I replaced the discolored powder tube and turned a long drop tube as I foresee using this as a bench measure for rifle reloading. I also turned a new cap of aluminum to match the drop tube and micro wheel. If anyone still uses these measures I'd be proud to hear what you think of them and any history?

[flashhole]

Very nice.

[Roundnoser]

Hi Seagiant!

Looks really nice! -- The local history on that powder measure is that it came out of a farmer's barn near Akron, Ohio. The farmer used to do some shotgun and rifle reloading (probably for hunting), but had passed away some time ago. His widow and adult son have been trying to clean out the barn. The family was not familiar with reloading or the equipment, but thought that someone else might like to have it.

[seagiant]

Thanks Gentlemen,
I still have to make an aluminum base for it but I like it very much. From reading about these measures on the Internet, they are suppose to be tighter than others in the drum area but I have not seen that myself, my Hollywoods seem as tight and I doubt there is much difference,still a very nice measure!

Thanks for the history Jon,that's always a bonus to me!

[Maven]

seagiant, I have one just like it and it is a joy to use, particularly with extruded powders such as IMR 7383. Enjoy it!

[154321]

I have much enjoyed to Saeco powder measure for over 40 years. The threads on my reservoir are not holding very well. Seagiant can you be of help in helping me locate a new one or maybe even two. Thanks for any assistance anyone one might be able to offer.

[seagiant]

Hi,
I'll help all that I can,however are you wanting another powder measure or another powder tube/reservior?

[What Cheer]

I have read/heard that the Hollywood powder hoppers will work in the SAECO measures, the threads being the same. Can anyone confirm that?

Thanks, and best regards.

What Cheer

[seagiant]

Hi WC,
As I have both makes of measures I can answer that and say yes they both will work in either one. The hoppers are 2"ODX1 3/4 ID which leaves a 1/8" thick wall. a lot of powder measure hoppers only have a 1/16" wall! The powder measure tubes on the Saeco and Hollywood are both threaded 24 TPI. I have just been taking the new peice of tubing and going to my belt sander and trimming the end until it will start in the powder measure and then screw it in by hand letting the measure make it's own threads on the tubing. I want to actually put it in my lathe and thread it correctly,but will have to make a mandrel to insert into the tubing for support as if you just try to chuck it up and start cutting threads it will shatter! Ask me how I know!

I buy this tubing in 6 ft lengths for around $45 from E-Plastics and use it to refurbish my older shotshell loaders by making an adapter. The originals were all 1/16' thickness tubing that is usually missing or cracked/ discolored by the time I get the loaders.

[What Cheer]

seagiant,

Thanks for the information on the Hollywood/SAECO powder hoppers.

Best regards,

What Cheer

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg: have you had a chance to throw some charges of something like 4895 or other coarse powder? And check for consistancy in drops?

I have been loading some .308's with 45 gr of 4895 and the best I can get my RCBS Uniflow to do is +/- .3 gr. This is more than I'd like to see.

.2 gr of that powder is about 10 granules so I was wondering if your style measure does any better.

The only way I see to do any better with a rotary drum type measure is to drop short and trickle to weight. This amounts to Weighing every charge, which I hate doing.

Maybe it's time for one of those Lyman DPS Electronic dispensers?

I got one of those little Frankford Arsenal Electronic Scales from Midway last month for $20 and it sure makes it easier to weigh stuff, over the Redding #1 I've been using since 1971.

BUt still I would sure like to just drop the powder and be done with it.

Always wanted a Harrel measure but never got close enough to one.

Your thoughts?

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
To be honest I haven't sat down and experimented with it yet.I'm fixing to go back to work soon so it's been honey-do's here lately before I go. I reload 7.62X51 Nato brass for my various battle rifles using a pair of Redding dies. I trim,ream the primer pockets with a wilson trimmer and then use a Sinclair bottom tool to square the bottom of the primer pocket,then ream the inside of the flash hole to remove the burr. All this to let you know I take reloading seriously and try to do the best job I can! I use a Bonanza Co-Ax press and a Redding powder measure. I believe my reloads are close to match quality. I use H-4895 powder like you so I could run a test maybe. Another thing that would be interesting is to put the Saeco up against the Redding??? I have looked at the Culver and the Harrel and I'm sure they are better measures but would probably be wasted on me!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg: I loaded 50 .30-06 cartridges with 46.0 gr of IMR 4895 last night, and I had to measure every charge as there is literally a few granules of powder difference in 45.7 and 46.4 grains of this powder. the stuff is heavy! I was literally dipping the wet end of a toothpick in the high charges to pull a few granules fo powder out of the pan to lower them to 46.0.

The problem with a volumn type of measure when using powders that are basically little sticks is that everytime you throw a charge the powder fills the cavity in a different way.

I tried tooncing the side of the measure, to settle the charge but that technique was no more consistant than just going up smartly and then back down smartly.

I can see a small vibrator like one of those you see in the movies taped to the measure stand might be a good solution, as that would settle the charge quickly. Kind of like a Cement Vibrator on a smaller scale.

I also had a big Epifany last night. I finished a 30 year old can of IMR 4895 and tossed the can. When I was taking out the trash I noticed on the front of the can, it said "Improved Military Rifle Powder"

I never knew what IMR stood for before?

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

OOH, OOH Have I got the hot tip for you on case trimming. Been meaning to relate this for some time.

When you use a 5C type collet your part length is at the mercy of the stock's diameter consistancy. On a 5C type collet with a normal pull type of closing mechinism this relationship works out to .003 variation in length for every .001 of diameter change.

So if you use a collet in your lathe to trim cases to length you can get close if every casehead is the same dia. See pic

Problem is they're not! and that results in you having to find the largest and smallest case heads and then finding one that is in the middle and then setting up the lathe around the case in the middle and living with the variations.

Then I remembered I had this device. Have you seen one of these Collet closers? Everybody sells them and they are about $50 for a new one and way less for used ones.

This closer operates as a "Dead Length closer" the collet is threaded into an adjustment ring which is captured in the base of the tool. When you operate the lever an excentric pushes a tapered collar up around the collet to close it. The collet never moves in or out. only the closer ring moves, so case head dia is irrelavant.

I simply use a Lee Cutter with an 8-32 SHCS with the head turned to about .302 for a pilot, and then you hand feed down to the quill stop with the mill or drill press turning.

It is fast and accurate.

The collet is any used up collet or an Emergency Collet with a .470 counter bore about .06 deep turned into the face.

Note: most all collets are made from 12L14, and then case hardened about .01 deep. it is easy to break thru the case hardening as it is not even that hard, maybe low 50's Rc.

Emergency Collets are made the same way but not heat treated, so they can be easily turnned to what ever diameter or configuration you need to hold a part. I have many that have odd shapes milled into the face for turning of a spud or boring of a hole in a lathe setup which many times is much faster than doing it on a mill. Especially like in a ctr drill, drill, tap scenerio where the tool changes on a mill would eat you up. On a turret lathe it's just a matter of indexing the turret for the next tool and then you're back at the start for the next part.

Note there are a zillion cartridges that use the .30-06 case head size so one collet can do alot of different cases.:drinks:

Randy.

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
Cool! Thanks for the pics,helps me figure it out. I"ve never used my lathe or mill to trim brass. I don't know if it would be any faster or more precise than what I'm doing now! There is a guy that has a site called Varmit Al, that uses a little Chi-Com 7x20 or something like that lathe, interesting site.

I can't help but wonder what are you loading to be so precise with the powder? It's fine if you want to cut as much variation out as possible but with one of my M-14's with a USGI chrome-lined barrel I don't know if I could tell the difference?

Well you got me again,I"ve been using IMR-4895 forever and didn't think that IMR stood for anything!!!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg: loading the .308's for my Ruger Gunsite Carbine and need to be in the factory load speed range IE 2800 fps so I can get 2600fps out of a 16.5" barrel. Basically trying to duplicate the Federal American Eagle 150 gr load.

With a known speed I can sus out my trajectory and dial in my holdovers more predictably for our silhoutte game. Sooner or later I have to verify these holdovers by shooting off a bench at all of the different yardages, but I need to get a reloaded round in the ball park first.

The shot to shot consistancy is not so much an issue as the amount of the spread in the thrown charges. I mean +/-.4 is a bit much when you are at the upper end of a loading. Some books say 45gr is max some say 44gr and some say 46 gr, so +.4 on top of a max load might be a problem.

I don't think it will matter that much shooting offhand at 500 meters with a 16.5" barrel gun? But I do want to try to get as much consistancy as possible, and the books are all saying a 100+ fps per gr of powder at those levels, so +/- .4 will be all over the place.

I'd like to use 4895 if I can as I use it in the .30-06's however if it just doesn't work, then I have Varget or 748 which I already know will meter better.

I am also currently loading 46.0 gr of 4895 for my .30-06's, essentially looking for a good consistant load for that will work in the Garand, and 2 bolt rifles with 150 gr sized "pulled bullets" (recycled). I already know the acceptable range for this load is going to be from 46 -49 gr of 4895 as I have plenty of articles on Springfield Rifles and various .30 cal guns.

I'm looking for 2700-2750 fps. Factory stuff is 2900 fps now and I can only shoot 5-6 rounds in ny Husky rifle before I'm bruised black and blue.

The intention is to develop a single 150 gr load , that I can shoot in all three of these guns, and get acceptable accuracy, without banging the Garand around.

I already have an acceptable cast boolit load for the two bolt guns, and the Ruger .308 also.

I'm actually going to go to a Adult bookstore today and see if I can find a small vibrator that doesn't loook too offensive to attach to my powder measure and see if that stabilizes the throws. I think it will.

I'll let you know what I come up with.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
Ha,Ha...Jeez! Your killing me! I can imagine my wife walking into the shop and there's a woman's sexual pleasure device duct taped to my powder measure! That would probably be the end! FWIW,my Spolar has a vibrator for the primer tray that is fairly small and works well. It is actually just a small motor with an off center drilled piece of round metal on the shaft. Much like a vib. case cleaner. Now what they have in the pleasure device I have no idea and admittedly have never thought of...till now!!!

[Wayne Smith]

Randy, save your embarassment and pick up an old electric toothbrush motor. It'll do the same thing.

My Belding and Mull is the only powder measure that I have used (no experience with the electronic ones) that is reliable and repeatable with powders as varied as 4759 and 4064. I have had the same problem of having to set other measures a tenth or two low and finger drop the rest to get accuracy on the scale. I did that for years with my RCBS measure. I think I have listed above the others I have tried.

[J3Pete]

This is probably stale - BUT - when I was in the Navy back in the Viet Nam days, I wanted a SAECO powder measure. My favorite mail order house, Gill Hebard, had these on back order for multiple months. So, when Uncle Sam sent me to San Diego on a carrier qual, I made the effort to find the SAECO factory and see about buying one onsite. When I got there they told me that they did not do direct sales... However, since I was paying list, they could make the sale this one time. I would say that being in uniform helped, but sailors in uniform are very common in San Diego.

Then they gave me a tour of the plant. I had never seen a machine shop with overhead belt driven equipment before and the sounds and sights were mesmerizing. I watched an elderly gentleman make the drums for the powder measures. I forgot the real measurements he gave me - the conversation went like this. We make the drum .003 undersize, plate it .001 oversize and then polish it to fit exactly. I was impressed!

[LUBEDUDE]

WRB - I know a few guys that use fish tank air motors with success. Online they are less than $15 I believe. I would think they are more quiet than those Spolars. You know how those are. Sounds like a bunch of mad bees.

[seagiant]

hi Pete,
Thanks for the history! I now own three of these! Guess I like them
! They are usually quite reasonable to buy and usually come with a factory stand which is a bonus! I think they are as good or better than anything out there for a third of the money. Another old company gone that could not be run today because the talent died! Literally!

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have two Hollywood powder measures and I like the way the hopper screws into the housing. I have many powder measures and the last one I would get rid of is the one in the picture with the clamp. I threaded the hoppers on my lathe[ back when I had it] with no trouble but I was using a six jaw Buck chuck which made it an easy task. I think the tubing was a little over twenty bucks for four or five feet. I don't remember which. I was staioned in San Diego for three years in the early 1950s and there were lots of servicemen there then but no more. My wife and I drove down two years ago and spent the day. We never saw a single man in uniform. The men we did see couldn't have been in service because they had very long hair. We didn't see any ships either except for two aircraft carriers in north bay. There are some ships in south bay but nothing like there used to be. San Diego has turned into a corperate town. That is to say they have their headquarters there. When I was stationed there I didn't visit any factories but I use to go into every pawn shop on F street and drool on the counters looking at all those Colt single actions. The saloons and locker clubs that used to be on Broadway are all long gone. No longer the town I grew to love.

[seagiant]

Hi GS,
I have 2 Hollywood measures also and they are nice too! I only have a 3 and 4 jaw chuck for my lathe and the self centering 3 jaw just dosn't support the tubes that well. I'm going to get on my wood lathe and make a wooden mandrel that will slip into the tube to support it for threading!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Greg: if you have removable jaws on your 3 jaw chuck you could make soft jaws for it and make them so that they were nearly full circle. Kind of like a pot chuck.

Another way you pointed out is to turn a spud out of plastic or wood to put in the hole of the tube and clamp on that so it won't collapse the tube.

I'd recommend cutting the threads upside down and backwards to avoid overruns, starting on the part and finishing off the part.

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi Randy,
Thanks for the tips! You are lucky you live in Cali and I'm in Fla. or I would be over at your shop under foot all the time trying to learn! Still waiting on that operators manual for the BP Mill!!!

My old 1945 Clausing lathe has the right hand screw on chuck so if I decide to thread backwards it can get exciting! Might just work thogh if I take it easy!

[WilliamDahl]

I have an old Saeco mounted to my bench. It looks something like this model:

http://55project.com/images/HD10thEd-P233-SAECO-Pic.gif

I haven't figured out a way to mount it to my press yet...

I also need to get the rifle drum for it since all I have is the smaller capacity handgun drum. Maybe one of these days...

[FUBAR 6]

I have one SAECO, and would like to have one like above with stand. Have only two measures I like more, a Hollywood Shot which has the beveled hole, and my Neil Jones....

Have many Hollywood's and use my lathe to turn hoppers, I use a semi "fluffy" paint roller inserted into the tube to give it support in the chuck, just spray with something slick to help with getting it in and out.

[WilliamDahl]

I have one SAECO, and would like to have one like above with stand. Have only two measures I like more, a Hollywood Shot which has the beveled hole, and my Neil Jones....

Mine was given to me by the guy I bought my first press (RCBS RS3) from. If reminds me of the way things used to be made -- heavy and meant to last a lifetime. I have no doubt that it will be still working long after my body has become worm food. The difference in the weight of it vs the Dillon measure is like night and day. It's probably the cast iron stand portion of it that weighs the most, but I do not see a way to separate the body from the stand. I'll probably end up buying a Lee PPM in order to mount it above the Lee Classic 4-hole turret press (http://leeprecision.com/4-hole-classic-turret-press.html) that I am setting up for low volume rifle ammo reloading. I'm sure that I could rig up a shelf above my Dillon progressive so that a powder measure like this could be used, but the unit is too heavy to be supported by a turret press where the head would be moving around. Best to just leave it attached to the bench, I guess...

[Randy in Arizona]

I bought one of these Micro Measures when I first started reloading.
Mine has the knocker weight hinged to the front of the measure.
Today at a local gun show I bought a extra measuring drum for it for 5 bucks!
The extra is in almost perfect shape.

The measure is slow to adjust, but the only measure I have any experience with that might be superior is the Belding & Mull.


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