Wadcutter limitations

[PacMan]

I have just started working with a OWC bullet and it is ahooting good but have only shot it to 25 yards. Having never shot WC before now ,shame on me, i have heard and read that they start loosing accuracy after 50 or so yards.

My question is why?
Is it because they become unstabe once they fall below a certian velocity? If so is there a reason that they cannot be driven faster or by design they are not accurate past a certian velocity.

I have read post by a member here , dont remember his handle, that he shoots WCs accuratley out to much longer distances.Wish i had paid more attention.
Any advice or input will be appericated.
Thanks
Dwight

[Whistler]

I'm not an expert in ballistics, but here's a brief explaination.

The nose shape in a bullet is not important when travelling in velocities below the speed of sound (~1100fps) , hence you can use a bullet with a totally flat front, making you able to seat more of the bullet inside of the case, thus reducing case volume getting more consistent ignition leading to better accuracy with very light loads of fast powders. Also, the wadcutter design in it self is based on having a lot of driving surface along the entire length of the bullet, making it easier to stabilize at low velocities, thus making lighter loads with minimum recoil possible. The hollowbase designs allow for an even longer bullet at the same weight, making it possible to reduce the load even further with maintained stability.

Should you begin to push the wadcutter too fast it will certainly keyhole. One of the most common issues is that for wadcutters it is always recommended to use soft lead, almost pure, because of the low velocities and pressures in target loads. When pushing the WC faster, you would of course need a harder alloy, something which most people seem to forget and stare blind at the flat nose of the bullet design.

Regarding the low accuracy at longer distances it is certainly an issue of too low velocity. Push it faster with a suitable alloy and you will see maintained accuracy at longer ranges. The tradeoff is higher recoil.

Successful Bullseye and PPC shooters often have one 25y low recoil load and a hotter 50y load. The increase in recoil is managable because you have more time to fire at 50y. However, many shooters advocate using the hot ammo througout the entire match, no matter the range, simply because it will give you one less thing to keep in you mind when you want all your focus to be on the sights and doing a proper trigger squeeze. I concur and use my 5.1gn of Vihtavuori N32C on all ranges with a 148gn DEWC.

I have seen some successful shooters who actually took a regular round nose design and just seated it so the tip of the nose was flush to the case mouth. It worked just like a wadcutter and could even be fired in the .38 Special pistols that were "WC only" to fit in the magazines. It would work poorly with lead bullets, but usually great with copper plated.

[bobthenailer]

Ive shot the Saeco # 944- 200 gr wc at 1450 fps, in a 44 mag at 25 yards and got consistat grouping of around 1/2 inch for several 5 shot groups with a scope . But the same load shot at 50 yards opens up to almost 3 inches !! go figure.
it shootes well at lower velocties but i never checked accuracy at 50 yards with those loads.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

The wadcutter has the worst shape aerodynamically possible. The simplest test to see this is to take a pointy board and a flat faced one and push them in/on the water. On the range any provocation/disturbance such as the wind usually causes the wadcutter to skid in its flight. On a windy day it is better to save your ammo than try to persist. Whistler gave an excellent account of the dynamics. The WC can/does give superb accuracy at shorter ranges out to approx 50 yards, if loaded correctly. In a good target revolver/semi auto it can deliver fine accuracy and has won many a match. LLS

[Char-Gar]

I have just started working with a OWC bullet and it is ahooting good but have only shot it to 25 yards. Having never shot WC before now ,shame on me, i have heard and read that they start loosing accuracy after 50 or so yards.

My question is why?
Is it because they become unstabe once they fall below a certian velocity? If so is there a reason that they cannot be driven faster or by design they are not accurate past a certian velocity.

I have read post by a member here , dont remember his handle, that he shoots WCs accuratley out to much longer distances.Wish i had paid more attention.
Any advice or input will be appericated.
Thanks
Dwight

38 Special Match ammo loaded with wadcutters (velocity 650 to 700 fps) will start to yaw and them tumble must past 50 yards. Jump the velocity up to 850-900 fps and they maintain their stability for a longer period of time. I have never tried them at this higher speed must past 75 yards but they did well at that range.

These little lead kegs fly about as well as a brick. They are plenty accurate for target shooting and were designed to cut a clean hole in the paper target. That is why they are called wadcutters. They made great plinking and small game loads, but for purposes other than those they offer no advantages over the semi-wadcutter and other designs of bullets.

Folks get the idea, they are super accurate because they are used in match ammo, but that isn't true. If a person is not interested in the cleanest possible hole in a paper target, they would be better off with a semi-wadcutter. Which by the way, cuts a pretty clean hole itself.

[Wally]

I shoot them in .38, .41, .44, & .45 Calibers up to 1,100 FPS..all shoot accurately for me out to 50 yards. Seems WC bullets that don't have flat "noses"/tips shoot better...almost all of mine have a slight rounded dimple on tip which help stabilze them.

I use mine for plinking---they are accurate and the bullet takes up more empty space in the case compared to a SWC or a RN. Also the bullet richochets less than any other. One can use less powder to achieve a desired velocity. They smack plinking targets better than any other bullet type. As I mine lead...they "catch" better in my sand traps ....

[PacMan]

Thanks for all the replys and good information. I now have a better ideal what to expect and the bullets limitations as well as strong suits.

The bullet is a 150gr OWC from LBT. I have been shooting it the last few days in a 5"GP100 and using HP38. Have not broken out the chorny yet but with 5.6 grains at 25yds it will stay at and under 1".Bump the charge to 6.1 gr. and it cuts nice round clover leafs. Bump the charge to 6.6 grains and the groups grew to 3". Got to get the chorny out tomorrow and see what the max velocity for the bullet and gun are.

I bought the mold to use for small game and plinking. One Cotton mouth and several turtles later and it has showed it will do well on those guys. Should work well on rabbits,dillars and other such game as well as a good came round.

Dwight

[bobthenailer]

Arent LBT wadcutters suposed to be accurate at longer ranges ?

[Hardcast416taylor]

I can`t begin to guess how many um-teen thousand .38 wadcutters I made and shot from my 4 cavity Lyman 358495 flat based molds. I competed in PPC and Bullseye shooting at my club and road visiting clubs. Some of my shooting was at 50 yd. and I must say I saw little yawing as mentioned, yes the groups open somewhat due to distance - but the bullets cut round holes. My go to load was 3.8 gr. of either HP-38 or Win. 231 powders. For primers I stayed with Fed. small pistol due to the light hammer strike I had made into my S&W`s. The alloy I used exclusively was 50/50 with NRA alox lube and sized the bullets .359".. Must have been a decent formula that can be attested by a few awards for outstanding accuracy I have. Now sadly my eyes are going and my reflexes aren`t getting any better with age, however my S&W M- 14 with a 6" barrel is still as accurate as it was over 25 years back.Robert

[subsonic]

As well as the WFNs fly, I would think you'd at least be able to get a solid wadcutter to 100yds accurately. I have a 358432 mould that throws 160gr wadcutters with little noses on them. Also have RCBS 358-148 and a LEE 6cav 148gr non-TL. I might launch a few out to 100yds just to see for myself.

[Bret4207]

The LBT OWC appears to be based very heavily on the old B+M OWC of the 20's. I have one for the 45 Colt. The rounded front moves the CG and gives a different aerodynamic quality to the boolit. I haven't done much work with mine at all, but consider this- Take a look at the Lyman 358009 of 311440. You have the same basic nose form as the OWC and I know for a fact the 440 will remain stable out to 150+ yards at over 1800 fps. The 009 is said to do the same. You have a different sectional density but the ballistic coefficient of the nose style must be similar, ie- a long flat faced rod flies better than a short flat faced rod, even thought both disturb the air in a similar fashion. So I'm betting a heavier OWC or WC for that matter will remain stable for longer than a shorter one.

Thus ends my useless ramble...

[9.3X62AL]

ANOTHER mention of the #358432 WC mould. Mine has remained cold/unused for at least 15 years, and I need to do something about that. I have a whole new fleet of 38s and 357s that has accumulated since I last used it. My recollection is that at 38 Special velocities these stayed accurate to 75 yards or so, but can't recall their 357 work habits. I can recall that the boolits JACKED UP jackrabbits right proper.

[Hammerhead]

Wadcutters stabilize at lower speeds (lower RPM's) compared to other designs of the same weight because they are shorter. The longer the bullet, the greater the RPM's needed to stabilize.

With hollow base wadcutters, the hollow base is designed to obturate at very low pressures and seal the bore, they actually take more velocity (more RPM's) to stabilize because they are longer than a plain wadcutter.

Push either type too fast and they 'over stabilize' and gyroscopic forces make them tumble.

You need the right RPM's to get them to stabilize like a football pass.

In .357/.38 S&W's with their relatively slow rifling twist they like a little higher velocity. In a Python or custom T/C barrel with a faster 1:14 twist they stabilize at lower speeds.

[Piedmont]

I experimented quite a bit with a .44 OWC back in the early to mid 90s. It never shot acceptably from my .44 specials. Velocities ranged from 800 fps to 950 fps and then recoil got more severe than I wanted. I firelapped the heck out my my main revolver thinking there must be a constriction. Veral thought my sizing die plunger must not be flush so I mailed it to him and he squared it and put a rim around the edge. It made no difference. The bullet shot a little better out of my Super Blackhawk at over 1,000 fps. The .44 special loads for my revolver shot well from my Winchester trapper at 50 yds.

The best it did from my special was between 2.5 and 3.0" at 25 yds for multiple groups of five. When shot at 100 yds the groups could be measured in feet.

These are not rounded large meplat bullets as per the old Belding and Mull as Bret suggested. They have a completely flat face of large diameter with a sharp edge on the meplat.

My opinions are that it is too much of a good thing and that about everyone else puts that button on the nose of a wadcutter for a good reason.

If I am remembering correctly it wasn't until a while after this OWC design was released that Veral started pushing it as a high velocity wadcutter. I think he realized they generally didn't shoot well at the velocities most of us push wadcutters, but that is my speculation.

[Echo]

When I shot commercial HBWC's in my Clark 38, I would see 'tails' on the 50-yd holes, indicating the bullets were starting to yaw. Still 10-ring accuracy, but losing stability - trivial for the situation, because there was no targeting past 50 yards. Of course, these were HBWC's.
Trying them @ 100 yards - couldn't keep them on the paper. This with Federal, Remington, and W-W ammo.

[TCFAN]

ANOTHER mention of the #358432 WC mould. Mine has remained cold/unused for at least 15 years, and I need to do something about that. I have a whole new fleet of 38s and 357s that has accumulated since I last used it. My recollection is that at 38 Special velocities these stayed accurate to 75 yards or so, but can't recall their 357 work habits. I can recall that the boolits JACKED UP jackrabbits right proper.

The 358432 for me is the least accurate WC mold that I have. I wish I could make it shoot like some of the other WC molds that I have but I never have had any luck with it. The mold itself is a nice 4 cav Ideal that drops at .360+ from WW. and is very round.In several different gun it just doesn't shoot for me..............Terry

[9.3X62AL]

#358432 shot OK for me, about on par with the Speer and Hornady HBWCs they shared range time with in those days at 25 and 50 yards. None of those shot as well as #358477 did, though. That might have a lot to do with why the mould has sat for such a long time. That SWC ranged a whole lot better than the HBWCs did, and later acquisition of a 2-banger in #358429 did nothing to diminish my preference for SWC designs in the rollerpistols.

[StrawHat]

I used to compete in PPC and used a HBWC over 2.7 grains of Bullseye as a competition loading. I also used the same powder and charge under the Lee 150 grain WC boolit cast soft. Both were accurate to 50 yards.

When I decided to use the WC boolit for small game, I upped the tin content and increased the velocity to 900 fps. I tested them at 50 and all was well. I have made several good shots out to 75 or 80 yards with the hard cast WCs but have never put them on paper to see how accurate they are or how they hit.