primer patch

[bigted]

ok so i did try the primer patch...well i should say i tryed to try them. what is the secret with these?

i recieved a proper punch for 45 cal rifles and proceeded to punch out some thin...[read very thin]...primer patch's from a phone book. they measure .002 inch in thickness. tore a few trying to punch them out first off. then i primed 20 shells and set about trying to seat those thin patch's over the primer inside the case and they...[every one]...went up along the case wall and required me to get my dental pick out to retrieve them. i use a 7/16 bolt to seat my over powder wads and used the same for these little raskels.

any help would be apreciated as i gave up on them...too much dickin round...took me 15 minutes to get 4 of them to seat properly and im not a patient enough man for this amount of screwin around...however i would really like to try this and see if my verticle would actually shrink.......so HELP PLEASE ?...:roll:...:confused:

[Jon K]

I cut patches for the 45 with a 38 cal punch....drops right into the bottom of the case and lays flat.:smile:

Jon

[John Boy]

set about trying to seat those thin patch's over the primer inside the case and they...[every one]...went up along the case wall and required me to get my dental pick out to retrieve them.For a 45 caliber, punch out over primer wads (OPW) using a punch for a 38 caliber. When you drop them in, they will flutter down to the primer hole and lay perfectly flat covering the hole

Same goes for other calibers: for a 50 use a 45 punch, for a 38 caliber use a 32 punch, etc

Might want to try heavier paper - like dropping in 2 wads punched from construction paper to reduce the brisance

[LIMPINGJ]

Could you cut your paper into strips and just hold the strip on top of the primer and seat the primer? Seems the primer would cut out a disc and seat it during regular primer seating. Anyone ever try this?

[oldracer]

In an article in Black Powder Magazine the "primer patch" idea was tried and measured and such. The best setup for that load and rifle seemed to be as Limpingj mentioned with the patch right on top of the primer. Last fall I tried both methods and none of my rifles liked them and there seemed to be a bit more "sludge" in the barrel after each shot so I stopped using them. None of the shooters I have talked to at the South Bay Rod & Gun range in San Diego have continued to use them either.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Primer wads, work well with Pistol primers between the primer and the primer pocket. I use Watman Ashless filter paper and punch out a 40 caliber wad that I put in the shell holder before the case and punch the wad as I seat the primer. In my larger rifles were I use LR primers I use the 40 cal wad droped into the case and it fits the bottom very well no messing around, for years I used 45 cal wads in the 2-7/8ths and had issues of getting them to lay flat,in the case bottom, the best way was to put then in the mouth of the case and then seat them with a long dowel tool I made. I still had a few turn as Ted mentions making for a real PIA to get to the bottom of the case. 40 cal wads drop to the bottom and lay flat and are a quick and easy step.

Most of the top LR shooters, using Pistol Primers use a primer wad as I mentioned and that method to install them, this also helps to headspace the L Pistol primer in a L Rifle primer pocket to a great extent.

Chrono data proves out time and again that primer wads work well. Vertical at Long Range proves it out also. ES of 4 fps are pretty common in my LR loads. This yields very low SD's also.

This years chrono testing at Raton for Long range showed my loads running for 3 shots 1338 fps 1342 fps and 1340 fps, ES of 4 fps SD of 1, avg 1340 fps. this was with 111.2 grs of Fg Goex express compressed aprox .380 of an inch with a 531 gr Money PP bullet.

This is the first time I have ever heard them refered to as primer patches. Kinda different.

KW
The Lunger

[bigted]

thankyou all. this sounds rite as i also purchased a 38 cal punch. i will try it and also try kenny's method of l-p primers with a paper "wad" cut with the primer as it is seated.

the other method mentioned nearly drove me to cussin...not so much of a feat but the irritation value with trying to seat a 45 cal wad in a 45 cal case is maddening to say the least.

knew i was doin something wrong as i was and am sure that non of you would spend the excessive time trying this either.

[Southern Son]

I am glad I read this one. bigted, I have the same problem, although you have a smaller punch and will be able to make smaller wads. I only have a 45 wad cutter and getting them into the bottom of a case is great fun. I found, like KW, that a dowel helps, especially if the dowel has a rounded end on it.

Now I am going to have to try the Large Pistol Primers with a wad of paper cut by the primer as I seat it. The only reason I have not tried the LP Primer is the headspace issue, but the paper will fix that.

[herbert buckland]

I have always used PP for BP rifles and it was always in the back of my mind that this could cause cratering in the breach face(it never did in over 30 years of shooting my Martini Henry 577-450) but just the same when Kenny recomended primer wads I took notice as his advice has served me well,now I dont worry any more and it defintly improved the acuracy,you notice it the further the distance is but even at 200 merters it is noticible

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Current NRA Creedmoor Champ Doc Keith Lay, just came out top of the field at Raton, He uses Pistol primers with the wad between primer and primer pocket, punched when seating the primer as I outlined in the previous post.

That's enough for me, even if I did not have all the chrono data and personal Results at 800-90-1000 yards already.

KW
The Lunger

[John Boy]

here is the brisance (power) for primers done by Cabine Tree. One wants to use the lowest power primers ...
Ranked in order of power
Large Rifle = LR, Large Rifle Magnum = LRM, Large pistol =LP,
Brand/type Power Average Range Std. Dev
1 Fed Match GM215M 6.12 5.23-6.8 .351
2 Federal 215 LRM 5.69 5.2-6.5 .4437
3 CCI 250 LRM 5.66 4.5-7.4 .4832
4 Winchester WLRM 5.45 5.1-6.0 .2046
5 Remington 9 1/2 LRM 5.09 3.5-6.75 .6641
6 Winchester WLR 4.8 4.1-6.0 .4300
7 Remington 9 1/2 LR 4.75 3.7-6.25 .5679
8 Fed Match GM210M 4.64 4.0-5.6 .3296
9 Federal 210 LR 4.62 3.7-5.5 .3997
10 CCI BR2 4.37 4.0-5.0 .2460
11 CCI 200 LR 4.28 3.8-4.8 .3218
12 KVB 7 LR Russian 4.27 3.8-4.8 .2213
13 Rem 91/2 (30 yrs old) 4.16 3.8-4.8 .3427
________________________________________
Pistol primers
14 Rem LP 4.47 3.2-5.6 .5171
15 KVB 45 LP Russian 3.89 3.3-4.2 .2232
16 CCI 300 LP 3.18 2.7-3.5 .2406
17 Federal 150 LP 3.11 2.6-3.5 .2090
18 Fed Match GM150M 3.05 2.6-3.7 .2299

[kokomokid]

I use a #17 lee shellholder that I found at track wolf for 40/65 and 45/70 primeing and it gives room to run .085 art paper strips under the primer. Makes large pistol primers set flush. Going to try some ashless paper inside the case when I get a chance.

[wgr]

whats the reason for them

[bigted]

i used the 38 rifle punch to make primer wads and they worked like a charm to load into my 45-70 cases. they flutter down and settle on the base of the case just like they were meant for this task...thanks everybody for the hints and i will also try the primer wads under the primer itself.

another question concerning the wads themselves... has anybody purchased the loading press style wad cutter from buffalo arms? at the asking price of 58 dollors i would like some report of how these work and how sturdy they are... im not very satisfied with my hammer punch's

[Gunlaker]

i used the 38 rifle punch to make primer wads and they worked like a charm to load into my 45-70 cases. they flutter down and settle on the base of the case just like they were meant for this task...thanks everybody for the hints and i will also try the primer wads under the primer itself.

another question concerning the wads themselves... has anybody purchased the loading press style wad cutter from buffalo arms? at the asking price of 58 dollors i would like some report of how these work and how sturdy they are... im not very satisfied with my hammer punch's

I have a .40 cal press mounted punch from BACO. In 15 minutes I can create enough wads for months of shooting, and my wife doesn't have to listen to all of that banging coming from the basement. :-). It's a big improvement over the hammer struck punch.

Chris.

[montana_charlie]

i would like some report of how these work and how sturdy they are... im not very satisfied with my hammer punch's
They are sturdy ... like a reloading die is sturdy.

The slot where you place the wad material is about an eighth of an inch wide. That is room enough to run three strips of .030" LDPE so that you cut three poly wads at each stroke.

I haven't tried cutting multiple layers of harder .030" stuff (like vegetable fiber gasket material) but I bet you can cut two at a time without problems.

The tool is sharp enough to cut wax paper wads with crisp edges, and it goes through hard felt with almost no feeling of resistance at all.

It will hold up for you, Ted.

CM

[Boz330]

BACO. In 15 minutes I can create enough wads for months of shooting, and my wife doesn't have to listen to all of that banging coming from the basement. :-).

Chris.

That is almost enough incentive right there to go for it. When Momma ain't happy, ain't no one happy. I try to punch them when SWMBO Is out of the house, but it doesn't always work out that way. She doesn't say anything but there is always "The Look".

Bob

[bigted]

thanks for the report...ill get a couple on the way then...