Round ball loads for .38 Spl/.357 Mag?

[mosinman]

Would like to cook up some short range plinking loads using round balls from the Lee .360 dia. #90418 mould. I recall some .38 Spl loads in Handloader's Digest circa 1960s that used a single 000 buckshot over 1.5 - 2.0 grs. Bullseye, but don't remember the loading method(s) for these :confused:

Would like to learn the details of loading RBs, such as:

Alloy

Ball dia.

Seating depth

Case sized or unsized?

Lube

Accuracy

Useful range


Anyone have any .38/357 RB recipes?

TIA :grin:,

mosinman

[woody1]

I use 3.1 gr. of Bullseye with most of my roundball loads including 38 Spl. and 357. Regards, Woody

[thegreatdane]

not to display ignorace, but... why roundball?

[9.3X62AL]

.36 caliber RB weighs 70 grains......two RBs = one typical 38 caliber bullet's metal weight. A lot of my varmint shooting and hunting could be done well with RBs in my revolvers, and after whacking a number of jackrabbits with cap & ball 36 and 44 revos.......there's no lack of stopping power with the lighter projectiles. For table fare like cottontails, the RBs were near-perfect to 40 yards.

[GP100man]

I use 2 grs. of clays & push the ball in far enuff to put a little roll over it .

Most crimp 1/2 way on the ball

~bout the same as a 22lr report

[Four-Sixty]

Since the bearing surface on the ball is so small, there is no need to "size" the ball is there?

Thanks for sharing the load data by the way. I was thinking about getting one of the .36 ball molds from Lee.

I've also heard that you can seat three balls in a .357 case.

[woody1]

Since the bearing surface on the ball is so small, there is no need to "size" the ball is there?

Thanks for sharing the load data by the way. I was thinking about getting one of the .36 ball molds from Lee.

I've also heard that you can seat three balls in a .357 case.

Not much point to size unless the ball is oversize. That said, I do use oversize balls quite often and, although it's a pain, I do run 'em thru a sizer. I run .375's down to .360 for the 38/357's and a .43? something, down to .428 for my .44 WCF.

Have heard of the 3 ball 357, never tried it. Regards, Woody

[Bula]

I'm assuming you all tumble lube these roundball loads?

[MT Gianni]

I'm assuming you all tumble lube these roundball loads?

No you put either LLA or a conventional lube around their edges once they are seated.

[woody1]

I usually tumble lube either with LLA or JPW, however I've also just smeared a little FWFL over the top of the ball after seating. It isn''t rocket science and velocities aren't high. Regards, Woody

[mosinman]

FWFL? Whazzat? :)

[woody1]

FWFL? Whazzat? :)

Felix World Famous Lube.

[beagle]

Take a look at Castpics/Articles by Members/Round Ball Loads.

I use a lot of 2 ball .38 Special loads out here on the place and enjoy using them.

Directions are included in the article./beagle

[63 Shiloh]

I use 2.8gn of Clays under 3 .36 90gn RB's. Light roll crimp, very quite and accurate enough out to 20 yards.


Mike

[camaro1st]

I use 2.8gn of Clays under 3 .36 90gn RB's. Light roll crimp, very quite and accurate enough out to 20 yards.


Mike

what kind of accuracy you get with the 3 balls? or grouping?

[woody1]

Take a look at Castpics/Articles by Members/Round Ball Loads.

I use a lot of 2 ball .38 Special loads out here on the place and enjoy using them.

Directions are included in the article./beagle

I remember reading the article but I can't find it now. Did it get misplaced or am I just getting blind? Regards, Woody

[BAGTIC]

I shoot most of my roundballs in single shot rifles so don't need to crimp. If the case chambers as is I don't bother to resize. Seldom need to with RB loads.

I use Red Dot because I have a lot of it and it is bulky and fills space well. I adjust load to just below speed of sound because I want a quiet load. In .357 3 -4 grains depending on gun . I seat the ball all the way down on powder for compressed load. A pencil or dowel works fine for that. I bedlieve the compression makes the difference as it always provides uniform ignition and it doesn't matter which end of the case the powder has settled in at time of firing.

For use in revolvers I imagine, but have not tried, that after seating the ball the case could be run into a sizing die to constrict the forward part of the case to keep the ball from shifting forward from handling.

Definitely powerful enough for small game without destroying a lot of meat. Very quiet in rifle. I have had farmers invite me to set on the front porch swing and shoot ground squirrels in the flower and vegetable gardens.

[Maven]

"not to display ignorace, but... why roundball?"

thegreatdane, Because they're surprisingly accurate, are economical, use less powder, are of limited power when a 160gr. CB is not required, and there's almost no recoil. That's a good thing when teaching young and/or new shooters how to shoot a revolver.

All, I tried RB's in my .357mag. (Ruger BH), mostly because I have a .375" Lyman RB mold on hand and I was curious about the entire process. First, you can cast RB's of either WW or Pb depending which you have a surplus of. Second, I placed the RB, sprue up, in my Ly. #450 sizer and used a .359" die to resize them to the dimension my gun likes. Third, with the new, flat area around each ball's circumference, it's easy to place them (sprue up) in the sized, charged case.* For lower power loads, I suppose you can use 2.0 - 2.3gr. Bullseye, but I used 2.8gr. B'eye or 3.1gr. Hodgdon Clays (original version). I crimped them in place and smeared lube around the case necks with my fingers. Accuracy was ~1.5" -2" @ 25yd. from a rest, but I think that was due to my own inexperience with those loads. I'm sure many can easily surpass that level of accuracy.


*I seated no deeper than the flat area formed by resizing.

[Wally]

Frankly a Lee 102 grain RN or their 105 SWC would be a better choice IMHO..use a ploy filler or the lighter powder charges and they will shoot just fine for you...

[rintinglen]

I have shot quite a few Speer 375 round balls in 38 Specials. Sized 358, seated carefully just even with the top of the flat edge that occurs after sizing, they were fairly accurate loaded over 2.5 grains bullseye. The recoil was non-existent and for teaching my young daughters to shoot, at close ranges, it worked great. I also tried some 000 buck, but the inconsistent sizing made for poor accuracy. I loaded a box or 2 of double ball defense loads, but they were not accurate and the low velocities seemed inadequate for the intended purpose.
I later got a 358-101 that I still have and plan on teaching my grand kids to shoot in a few years.

[Four-Sixty]

I got the Lee .36 ball mold in and cast up some rounds. I loaded one ball in a case over 2.3 grains of Bullseye and left the ball at the top of the case with a slight crimp.

Shooting it at about 20 feet into a piece of 1" treated wood I found the balls only went half way into the treated wood. They did not ever go through the other side. I also noticed a lot of unburnt powder when I ejected the cases. I will try compressing the loads next time, there must be something to it as BAGTIC says.

[mosinman]

I'm starting to rethink the loading procedure for round balls. Seating the ball at the case mouth leaves a LOT of empty room for that tiny powder charge to drift around, thereby causing ignition inconsistency and poor accuracy.

Don't know for sure if seating the ball snugly on top of the powder (as previously posted) is a safe procedure, but I think it makes sense in the interest of positive ignition and better groups.

Would it be safe to seat the ball where the bottom would be at the same depth as the bottom of a normally seated 148 gr. BBWC? Biggest problem might be finding a seating plug long enough to push the ball that deeply into the case :confused:

Might have to settle for hand seating with a dowel, etc., but would prefer an easier and more consistent way.

Ideas, anyone?


mosinman

[mosinman]

Would it be safe to seat the ball where the bottom would be at the same depth as the bottom of a normally seated 148 gr. BBWC?



Actually, a shorter, low pressure cartridge like .38 S&W or .38 Short Colt with a case canellure could be used as a reference for seating the ball deeply in .38 Spl / 357 Mag. The canellure would be the limit for the bottom of the ball, and sticking with published load data for the shorter cartridges should keep one out of excessive pressure trouble.

mosinman

[mosinman]

I got the Lee .36 ball mold in and cast up some rounds. I loaded one ball in a case over 2.3 grains of Bullseye and left the ball at the top of the case with a slight crimp.

Shooting it at about 20 feet into a piece of 1" treated wood I found the balls only went half way into the treated wood. They did not ever go through the other side. I also noticed a lot of unburnt powder when I ejected the cases. I will try compressing the loads next time, there must be something to it as BAGTIC says.

If you're using unsized brass, you might partially resize the case near the mouth, about 1/4" to 3/8" should do it. If you have any unfired rounds with this load, you could remove the decapper from your sizing die and post-size them, should see some improvement.

If you decide to seat the balls deeper on your future loads you can first try them in unsized cases. Case walls get gradually thicker the closer you get to the case head and the balls will be seated more snugly the lower you go. Sizing may be unnecessary.

Sizing does more for positive ignition than crimping. Considering recoil with these loads is practically non-existant, crimping is probably not required.


mosinman

[thegreatdane]

Alright, i'm in. After reading this and several other threads/articles on 38 round ball loads, I've purchased a round mold. I'll report back when the results are in!

[jh45gun]

Dean Grennells book "THe ABC's of Reloading" has a chapter on ball and multiple ball loads and shot loads. Using the Speer shot capsules you can load 3 number 2 buck shot balls in the shot capsule. If you flatten them into discs you can load 5 of them in a shot capsule. I should add this is for the 38/357 for 44 and 45 capsules you can put 3 double ought buck in a capsule and 4 of them flattened into discs.

[thegreatdane]

i know i have that book somewhere... hmm.

[Plastikosmd]

I still got a couple boxes of 357 RB factory loaded ammo. Think it is Remington, 2 ball. Was sold as some sort of personal defense round I think

[x101airborne]

I've also heard that you can seat three balls in a .357 case.

yeah, I heard that too. Unfortunately...... when you try to seat three rounds over 3 grains bullseye in a 357 deep enough to get a crimp on the last one, you wind up with a bulge in the case where the case starts to thicken up. Two work just fine, but I had to throw away 15 three ball loads because they would not chamber.

[mashaffer]

A case full off fffg maybe? :D Instant Colt Navy.

mike

[Kitika]

I've just tried loading a 000 round ball over 5grains of trail boss and got 3 shots touching 2inchs low and 2 balls in the same hole 2inches higher at about 15 metres. I'm pretty impressed and with my new lee buckshot mold I can make heaps real quick :)

[shooting on a shoestring]

This could be a good place to put Grits or Cream of Wheat between the powder charge and the bottom of a ball seated in the case mouth. Holds the powder in place, gives a little more weight so the powder burns more consistent, and the filler seems to further dampen the report.

[Maven]

A case full off fffg maybe? :D Instant Colt Navy.

mike

mike, If you put FFFg in the .357mag. or .44mag. case and fire a cylinder full with a Keith SWC of the appropriate caliber, you'll immediately grasp where the phrase "hotter than a pistol" came from. You'll also need to swab the bbl. and reapply grease to the cylinder pin after a few such cycles.

[DLCTEX]

I load .360 rb over 3 gr. BE and find it a very accurate and cheap load. I don't believe BE to be position sensitive in pistol as it is not so in rifle cartridges. Haven't tried the multiple ball loads.

[jh45gun]

This could be a good place to put Grits or Cream of Wheat between the powder charge and the bottom of a ball seated in the case mouth. Holds the powder in place, gives a little more weight so the powder burns more consistent, and the filler seems to further dampen the report.


I have seen multiple ball loads with cardboard discs over the power and the balls.

[thegreatdane]

I remember reading the article but I can't find it now. Did it get misplaced or am I just getting blind? Regards, Woody

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Round%20Ball%20Loads.pdf (http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Round%20Ball%20Loads.pdf)

My round molds came in (already - Midway). I cast up about 50 of 'em really quick, and I'll be studying the above article. This will be fun! :drinks:

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

The most recent issue of Handloader had an article titled Utility Loads, and it is about round balls in .38 Spl and .357 mag. Sent me your e-address and I'll e-mail you a scanned copy.

[thegreatdane]

The most recent issue of Handloader had an article titled Utility Loads, and it is about round balls in .38 Spl and .357 mag. Sent me your e-address and I'll e-mail you a scanned copy.

I may have that same one. I'm a subscriber. Which edition is it in?

[stubshaft]

I have some Remington 357 multi ball loads but have never taken them apart. In fact I don't think that I've ever shot one of them.

[BAGTIC]

They also have very low BC. For my use I want them to lose power as fast as possible. If I could find some light weight balls (zinc, etc.) the right size I would use them.

[thegreatdane]

A faster way:

So I've discovered that it's incredibly efficient to use a second expander in the hornady LNL (5 hole) press to seat one ball, and a seat/crimp in station 5 to seat the 2nd. The 2nd expander pushes the ball down enough so that the seat/crimp can do it's job easily.

2 ball loads at the same rate as regular ammo! I'm gonna have to buy that big lee mold now. 2 at a time is actually one at a time in casting, but loading is no prob.

PS: They're really fun to shoot!

[jh45gun]

This place has buckshot molds cheaper and for 38 you would use the .35 mold

http://buckshotmold.com/

[Multigunner]

I made some low velocity round ball loads for my old Mod 37 many years ago.

I intended these mainly for pest control, and plinking.

I used a homemade dipper to throw aprox 1 grain of bullseye.
Bullets were made by driving .375 round balls through a 23/64" (.359) hole drilled in a steel plate.

I seated the ball with nose even with the case mouth and used a white automotive door grease as a lube. I just smeared a bit of the grease inside the rim of the case mouth.

I only had one squib due to slow or incomplete ignition of the powder. The ball stopped at the forcing cone, with propellent gas hissing from around it.
To improve ignition I used a half a cigarette paper pushed down on the powder to hold it against the flash hole.

When the rounds worked, as they did except for that single incident, the velocity and power was about that of a wrist rocket sling shot.
Deadly enough on a large rat, but unlikely to damage anything under the house if the ball missed.

Accuracy was good.

I found that when fired at a handkerchief hung on a fence wire the ball just pushed the cloth up out of the way.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Charlie View Post
The most recent issue of Handloader had an article titled Utility Loads, and it is about round balls in .38 Spl and .357 mag. Sent me your e-address and I'll e-mail you a scanned copy.



I may have that same one. I'm a subscriber. Which edition is it in?


Round Ball Loads for Handgun Cartridges - Handloader Dec 2011

[thegreatdane]

Thanks Charlie. He seems to discuss 3-ball 38 specials almost exclusively. I haven' t tried that yet. That's a lot of weight, deep into the case. 2 has worked so far. They're lots of fun. Also, I've been tumble lubing the projectiles and adding a dab of soft moly-bee between 'em. No leading.

[NavyVet1959]

Has anyone tried to see how fast they could drive a round ball out of a .357 mag? I have a .360 round ball mold on order and am curious to see how fast I can get it to go with a full power .357 mag powder load.

[claudesapp]

Here is a pretty interesting read, from 1976 look for the "Low Down on Loading Down" article:

http://www.americanhandgunner.com/1976issues/AHND76.pdf

[Salmoneye]

Has anyone tried to see how fast they could drive a round ball out of a .357 mag? I have a .360 round ball mold on order and am curious to see how fast I can get it to go with a full power .357 mag powder load.

I have a feeling you will be spinning the balls too fast, and accuracy will suffer...

[NavyVet1959]

I have a feeling you will be spinning the balls too fast, and accuracy will suffer...

For that though, all I want is for accuracy to be good enough to get it through the bars on my chronograph without me either hitting them or the chronograph itself.

Turned out the Midway package was left in my mailbox on Saturday and I discovered it on Sunday. Started up the casting pot with a 50:50 mix of wheelweights and pure lead and cast a few while drinking some beer. Ran them through a resizing die (don't remember if it was .357 or .358). Very little resizing was done in that the flat spot along the circumference of the round ball was not very large. I had a 9mm handy, so I tried seating them in a 9mm case that had not been resized. They would seat with just a couple of taps of the handle of a screwdriver. I then tried testing them to see if they would feed from the 9mm handgun that I had brought with me to test. I knew it would work in .357mag, even if I set the roundball flush with the mouth of the case, so I had wanted to see what would happen with a 9mm case. I figured that if it would work with a 9mm case, then it would also work with a .357SIG case. The .357SIG case might give me enough powder space to get it up to 2000 fps.

To get a bit more bearing surface, I experimented around with "smushing" the round ball a bit in an arbor press and then running it through the resizing die. Depending upon how much I "smushed" it, the result from the resizing die could look like a round nose flat point bullet, abeit a rather short one. The repeatability of the "smushing" was not that great since I was just doing it by hand and the force on the arbor press handle was obviously varying. Perhaps a fixed weight hanging from the end of the arbor press arm would result in better repeatability. I guess what I was more or less doing was swaging lead balls into bullets without lube grooves. Interesting experiment, probably not that practical. :)

[bedbugbilly]

You might get some more info here . . if you haven't already looked at it.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?182734-Round-ball-gallery-loads-anyone-try-them

I picked up a .360 RB Lyman mold for the same purpose. I cast a few just to measure them and see how they dropped - they were about .361 or so - just a tad too big to fit when I tried to push by hand into a sized 38 casing. I ran them through a .358 push through sizing die then just TL'd them in alox. That's as far as I've gotten with it.

I shoot a '51 Navy and even thought the RB is .375 that I use for that - I figured the "gallery load" would work fairly well for shorter plinking ranges and crates as well. If I can run across a .358 RB mold - and they are out there - I probably would pick that up to try as well.

Let us know your experiences with a round ball load please. Lot's of folks have used them and had luck with them.