Just got a MEC 650 12ga Progresssive ... Now What?

[Dannix]

I saw a newly refurbished MEC 650 Progressive selling for just a notch over $100 shipped, so I went for it as I'm getting in my first shotgun (12ga). I'm happily reloading metallic, but reloading hulls is reputedly an entirely different matter.

The seller stated the press had a new lower reprime spring and that it was setup for RemSTS shells (which I'm planning on using anyway), Claybuster 8118, and 20gr of GreenDot. Oh, and a 1 1/8 oz shot bar...whatever that means. I have Unique, Universal, and WSF on hand though, so I'll probably start with Unique. I would love to get receipts for AA#7, but apparently there aren't receipies for shotgun for it like there are with it's peer powder, Blue Dot.


So now what? I'll be picking up a couple hundred Remington STS hulls from Ballistic Products (http://www.ballisticproducts.com), and the Lyman Shotgun manual there as well. I'm primarily interested in #1 to #00 Buck -- should I get a buckshot-oriented manual from BP as well? At some point I would like to be casting or dripping my own shot, but that will wait for now.


The MEC 650 does not resize except as a separate operation. This is the ideal press for the person who wishes to resize and inspect their shells as a separate operation.
Apparently I need a separate resizer? Do I really need to, or can I resize this press, just not progressively?

Thanks. :coffeecom

[GabbyM]

I've never used a resizer.

[Johnch]

Best to find a used MEC Super Sizer
As long term use of the poorly thought out way you size on a 650
Can bend the bar that the tool head rides on ( I did on my old one )

A 650 is a great press if you are loading for 1 gun
Or are loading low pressure target loads for several guns with simaler sized chambers

John

[Dannix]

GabbyM, thanks for your comment. Do you load for only one shotgun or load only milder loads? Why do some feel the need or genuinely have the need to resize, unlike yourself?

johnch, thanks, I consider myself warned and will not size on the 650. Will be using the 650 for only 1 shotgun for the moment, and it will probably remain that way. What makes the 650 a non-great choice for non-low-pressure loads for more than one shotgun?

[Hardcast416taylor]

I think you should get a Lyman shotshell loading manual and contact Mayville Engineering for a manual for the 650 press. Learn about your press first before jumping into trying to load with it. Some of the statements you made about loading #1 or 00 buck only can be best done off the press and not with a shot bar and out of the shot bottle. I used a 650 for over 25 years without an extra do-dad for sizeing the base brass. I never had any feed problems thru any of my 870`s with my loaded shells, skeet or heavy duck loads.Robert

[huntnman]

I have been reloading blue dot ,700x,800x powders for both shotshells, pistol, and at least 1 rifle load for years.
Be careful loading large size shot.Many people try to push there loads too hard,excessive pressure can be deadly to you, or you're gun.
GET A GOOD RELOADING MANUAL, such as Lyman 5th edition shotshell reloading handbook READ,and ''FOLLOW" there advice!

[Rick459]

MEC Manuals
http://www.mecreloaders.com/OwnerManuals/OwnerManuals.asp

[GabbyM]

GabbyM, thanks for your comment. Do you load for only one shotgun or load only milder loads? Why do some feel the need or genuinely have the need to resize, unlike yourself?

johnch, thanks, I consider myself warned and will not size on the 650. Will be using the 650 for only 1 shotgun for the moment, and it will probably remain that way. What makes the 650 a non-great choice for non-low-pressure loads for more than one shotgun?

All my shotguns are American made with SAMI chambers. Shells always fit in them all.
I never could see the advantage of the oversized chambers in the Browning and some other foreign trap guns. Guys said they like them ? Any shells fired in one of those probably won’t fit a SAMI chambered gun. I only loaded my trap laods on the 650.

[para45lda]

Shouldn't have a problem if loading for a single shot or double. But will need the sizer for a semi-auto. Think in rifle reloading terms.

+1 on getting a manual.

[Tom-ADC]

I had them for 12, 20 & 28 still have the 28. Loaded many 1000's of shells on them and have never broken a part.
I switched to the 9000G's and sold off all but the 28 gage.
650 is a great press and will last a long time taken care of.

[Calamity Jake]

GET A GOOD RELOADING MANUAL, such as Lyman 5th edition shotshell reloading handbook READ,and ''FOLLOW" there advice!

And above all::::FOLLOW THE LISTED RESIPIES, DO NOT SUBSTATUTE COMPONANTS OTHER THAN THE WAD AND ONLY THEN WITH LISTED SUBSTATUTE WAD i.e. Claybuster

And no you don't need the resizer. I load 12 gage for 7 differant shot guns.

[John Boy]

So now what?
Buy a Universal Charge Bar™ Model "D/DS" for your 650
http://www.multiscalecharge.com/

[Dannix]

Thanks for all the comments! I'll continue to read and re-read them as I learn the ropes.

Manual
Yup, as posted in post #1, I'll be picking up the Lyman Shotgun manual. Please let me know if there are other "must have" manuals you'd recommend.

Resizing
I'll keep an eye open for a sizer e.g. a SuperSizer. In the mean time I'll just see how I fair without it. The one gun this 650 will be paired with, for at least the near future, is a Winchester auto, so it's exclusively SAMI chambers for now, and I'll be starting from new brass rather than my range pickups.

Universal Charge Bar
I've seen mentioned before. General thoughts concerning it?

Press
I'll get to know it, certainly, and may even disable the progressive aspect for now.

Robert, Gabby, at what shot size point should one best load "off the press" rather than on the 650? What does "off the press" entail? I don't mind using the press for only crimping for "off the press" shot size loads. I have a Uniflow from my metallic collection; any thing else needed for "offf the press"?

Before I snatched up this bargain, I was about to start digging for an apparently discontinued 12ga Lee Loader. That should give an idea of the volume I need.

[GabbyM]

Shouldn't have a problem if loading for a single shot or double. But will need the sizer for a semi-auto. Think in rifle reloading terms.

+1 on getting a manual.

My trap gun is a Remington 1100 auto. Never sized them and never had any issues. Ran Federal Gold Medal and Winchester AA hulls. I'd buy new ammo then reload it. If you are picking up used range hulls you'll have some oversize.

[Firebricker]

The STS hulls will more than likely be fine with out resizing but the cheaper wally world hulls gave me problems when I reloaded a few on a 650. The STS is one of the best hulls made IMO. FB

[Johnch]

What makes the 650 a non-great choice for non-low-pressure loads for more than one shotgun?

IMO if you size with a Super Sizer or other sizer
Nothing

But with high pressure loads
It is a good idea to size the case head ( brass )
As if you loaded hulls shot in a large or over sized chamber
And then tried to shoot them out of a tight chambered gun
Especially Some Remington high brass cases , as I have found some have softer brass that allows the brass to swell more than harder brass or steel "brass"

You can have slight problems to nasty
From hard chambering and extracting
To not being able to fully chamber the loaded case
To trying to extract the case and ripping the rim off and having to rod out the case / loaded round


But if your guns have close to the same chamber ID's
You will probably never have a problem


John

[Johnch]

Thanks for all the comments! I'll continue to read and re-read them as I learn the ropes.

Manual
Yup, as posted in post #1, I'll be picking up the Lyman Shotgun manual. Please let me know if there are other "must have" manuals you'd recommend.

Start downloading the free load data from the different powder sites
Save to a compressed file on your computer
Also look at the free load data at Balistic Products and save anythig you might ever want

Resizing
I'll keep an eye open for a sizer e.g. a SuperSizer. In the mean time I'll just see how I fair without it. The one gun this 650 will be paired with, for at least the near future, is a Winchester auto, so it's exclusively SAMI chambers for now, and I'll be starting from new brass rather than my range pickups.

Universal Charge Bar
I've seen mentioned before. General thoughts concerning it?

I love them
But you have to set them with a scale each time you change
Not a problem , but a PITA sometimes
Where if you check a say 34 bushing and it drops XX grains of ## powder
That same 34 bushing will still drop the same XX grains of ## powder in 2 weeks
But where the Universal Charge Bar is nice , you can fine tune a load between bushings


Press
I'll get to know it, certainly, and may even disable the progressive aspect for now.

Robert, Gabby, at what shot size point should one best load "off the press" rather than on the 650? What does "off the press" entail? I don't mind using the press for only crimping for "off the press" shot size loads. I have a Uniflow from my metallic collection; any thing else needed for "offf the press"?

Before I snatched up this bargain, I was about to start digging for an apparently discontinued 12ga Lee Loader. That should give an idea of the volume I need.

Hope this helps a little
John

[Hardcast416taylor]

K.I.S.S. theory. Just buy the Mec charge bar for the load you think will be the one you`ll use the most. You can always get more bars for different shot weights later if this is to be a not used often loader. The powder bushings are a dream come true for we load and shoot types. Look up a load in a good load manual get the correct wads and primers along with the right powder and size shot you want and load. Word of warning - don`t try loading steel type shot on a 650 that is equiped with a lead shot charge bar!! As far as shot sizes that will work thru the bottle/ bar, I stopped at using #4 lead shot for 1 3/8 oz. duck loads some years back when lead shot was legal. Anything in the buckshot sizes have to be placed in the case manually then finished on the crimp stations. "Off press" is just what is means - doing a step that cannot be done on the press without jamming things up. BE AWARE, you will dump a charge of powder or shot accidentally, just warning you as we all have done it at 1 time or another. I`d stay with using the standard size small bottles. Don`t ask me what it`s like with a super large bottle that breaks off the top mount when it`s full of #7 1/2 shot!! Stay with the shell maker that you use the most, Win., R-P, Fed. Don`t mix brands while loading as they will have differing internal capacities and may either overflow the crimp or be low in the case body. The one bad thing about the 650 is that you can`t change it to a 20 ga. from being a 12 ga. or to a .410. What you have is a single ga. loader, at least that was what it was about 15 years back.Robert:bigsmyl2:

[Lizard333]

The hulls you plan on ordering are a little on the pricy side, like four times what I am paying for once fired STS Nitro hulls. I just picked up 1500 for 99$. Look on gun broker.

[ted60]

http://sites.google.com/site/papcharlieshulls/ lits gold STS for .5 a hull , and I never knew that a press came without a sizer? I would have to buy a sizer. and Bluedot is the powder for buck loads, Unique or Herco can be used,check out charlies, them gold ones are pretty.

[Dannix]

Thanks for the heads up. I guess I didn't look to closely at the prices, and I've been without internet this week until now (lighting strike apparently. Thank the Lord for a good surge protector).

Anyone else done business with Pap Charlies? (No offense Ted. It's just that you're a newer member here).
http://sites.google.com/site/papcharlieshulls/

[myfriendis410]

You've gotten some good advice but let me clarify the differences between metallic (which you are familiar with) and shotshell.

Loads are developed for a particular hull based on two (major) criteria: how they pattern, and how they fit in the hull. If you carefully follow published load data for a particular hull you should produce good looking shells immediately. If your load column is not correct, the hull won't crimp properly and will either come open or collapse; both leaving you with a pocket full of BB's and shells that don't work.

In my experience, if you are loading a middling target load you can fudge a few things and get fine results. The operative word is experience. My loads are not in the book, but they work well for me on the skeet field, and closely match each other for velocity. I load using two Mec Grabbers (28 and .410), one Mec 9000 (20 ga.) and one Hornady 366 (12 ga.) The first three loaders resize at the first station and the 366 has an offset separate sizer I never use. I occasionally will retool that loader to puke out some heavy stuff for crows and Chukar, but once again I've never needed to size any hulls and all of my stuff is scrounged off the range. I use AA and Premiers only. These are shot in a variety of shotguns with no problems at all.

Finally; due to the exceedingly high cost of shot I would recommend a 1 oz. load. It's basically a waste to load 1 1/8 oz. for target. Hunting may be different. A Universal charge bar does work with some fiddling (I have one on my .410 loader) but they do require some adjustments to the timing of the loader to get 'em to work properly. For a new loader I would not recommend one.

Good luck and have fun!

[Dannix]

Thanks for posting myfriendis410. I'll have to keep my eyes open for a 1 oz charging bar. 12% more shell for "free", if I did my math correctly.

International Clays is the powder of choice for 1oz, correct? I think I saw this somewhere in passing. I'm thinking about going the GreenDot route for my present 1 1/8oz setup. Would GreenDot be just as appropriate for 1oz loads? Maybe I should just pick up a 8lb jug of Promo.


All,
As I'm interested in loads with practicality i.e. penetration, I'm thinking about going as large and heavy a shot size as I can go without having to pay more per pound, and at BallisticProduct prices that's #5 Chilled Lead Shot, .120" diameter. Sound OK?


Thanks! :coffeecom

[lylejb]

International Clays is the powder of choice for 1oz, correct? I think I saw this somewhere in passing.

Nope.

That may be great in a 20ga, but 12 ga uses faster powders, especially for light loads. Kind of opposite of what we might think.

Fast powders like red dot, and 700x have loaded ZILLIONS of 12ga 1 1/8oz trap loads for decades, and would be better choices for 1 oz loads.

No doubt, there are 1 1/8 oz loads with green dot. It will work, but will need larger charges to produce the same velocity as red dot.

As for 1 oz, there may be a few loads with green dot, but I think you're getting toward the bottom end of pressures where it works.

International may work, but again, the pressures may be marginally low.

The unique you already have will work, but like international, it's on the slow end of what your looking for.

I think you would be better off with 700x or red dot.

[Vinne]

I have both 700x and Red Dot. Just got 8 lbs of Red Dot only because 700x is a dirty powder but would recommend both as doing the job in 12ga.

[myfriendis410]

I second the above. I use Red Dot and Hodgdon Clays (NOT International) is about identical. Most of the Hercules propellants were reformulated a few years ago and as a result are much cleaner burning. 700X is a little bit pricey but makes great 1 oz. loads.

The difference between 1 and 1 1/8 oz out of a bag of shot is: 350 vs 400. Remember; in trap they shoot a 27 gram load which is less than an ounce. You can actually derive some pattern benefits from a shorter shot column. Remember too that the charge bar delivers a certain weight of shot based on the shot size. #5 shot will take up more room than #9 shot so your bar will throw light.

My advice would be to find a load that works for you and stick to that one load. Don't deviate, make changes etc. That way your frustration level can be reserved for those pesky missed targets!

[fecmech]

Dannix--If you stick with the STS and other compression formed hulls such as AA you won't need the sizer. The design of those hulls precludes any base brass expansion, even in auto's. Some of the "promotional" hulls such as the Winchester and Federal if fired in gas operated autos will expand the base brass. The reason is the action unlocks while there is still pressure in the barrel and case. Remington promotional hulls hulls are compression formed and will work as good as the STS's. Red Dot, Clays, Promo, 700x all work very well with 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. 12 ga loads and are the most economical way to load.

[Lizard333]

Thanks for the heads up. I guess I didn't look to closely at the prices, and I've been without internet this week until now (lighting strike apparently. Thank the Lord for a good surge protector).

Anyone else done business with Pap Charlies? (No offense Ted. It's just that you're a newer member here).
http://sites.google.com/site/papcharlieshulls/

The hulls from him are top notch and much better priced. I have been using him for years. He has grown by leaps and bounds. You used to be only able to get hulls part time during the year. He's good b

[Dannix]

Promo (cheap Red Dot so I've heard) is at $85 for a 8lb jug at PowderValley, significantly less expensive than the alternatives, so I'll likely go that route, despite the cold weather performance issues I've heard.

The old timer I got the press from is going to send me 500 once fired Remington Gun Club hulls for the cost of shipping just because I bought the press (he's a first rate guy, and only sold the press to go towards a youth skeet program). I'm also going to get 500 once fired STS hulls for $20 + shipping from him. --- He stated the GunClub and the STS hulls reload exactly the same. Could you guys confirm this?

I've had Claybuster Wads recommended to me. And a comment that plastic wads are unnecessary with the proper selection of components. Thoughts?

Thanks again for all the input. :mrgreen:

[Lizard333]

I have used claybusters quite a bit and I am very happy with their product. They are pretty cheap too. I would take the advice the guy that sold you the press. Odds are he may be able to get you some reclaimed shot as well. If you could get that, you will be able to save quite a bit. Sounds like your off to a good start.

[myfriendis410]

He stated the GunClub and the STS hulls reload exactly the same. Could you guys confirm this?

I've had Claybuster Wads recommended to me. And a comment that plastic wads are unnecessary with the proper selection of components. Thoughts?

Thanks again for all the input. :mrgreen:

The one-piece wad came out in the late 60's and until that time over-powder and over-shot wads were used in the loading process. Usually with paper hulls.

Trust me when I say you do not want to go down that road. It will triple your loading time and you will end up with mediocre shotshells at best. A bit of trivia: until the one piece wad came out a 100 straight had NEVER been shot in registered skeet with the .410. That's due to protecting the shot as it's sent down the barrel by the wad.

The blue Claybuster (windjammer) and the pink Claybuster (superlight) will load just fine in the gun club and STS hulls with Red Dot and a one ounce load. It's what I use.

[Dannix]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the feedback.

One closing question:
If GunClub and STS are so similar and GunClub are a penny a hull (that's what the seller's club sells them for), then why does anyone spend the extra on STS? Are brass based hulls easier on autoloaders or some such?

[myfriendis410]

The STS's use a different plastic that holds up better over time.

They're also WAY prettier.........(if you go in for that kind of stuff)

[mac1911]

Personally if you are loading large shot #1 00 or slugs. sell the 650 and by a mec 600 jr
much more friendly for your needs and you can resize also.
650 is useless for reloading anything larger than 5 or 6 shot. Defeats the purpose of the semi progressive.
sizeing-----once fire hulls through your gun you intended to use should not need resizeing.
Try to push non resized shells through multiple guns....you will have a issue eventually, most likely at the worst time ever.

[fecmech]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the feedback.

One closing question:
If GunClub and STS are so similar and GunClub are a penny a hull (that's what the seller's club sells them for), then why does anyone spend the extra on STS? Are brass based hulls easier on autoloaders or some such?

Guys think they are loading "better" shells using STS and AA hulls when in fact over the long haul they don't. People will reload STS hulls ten times till the crimp is so weak that they get poor ballistic uniformity and look down their nose at a guy shooting reloaded (once fired) Gun Clubs! Almost all shot gunners have never patterned or chrono'd their loads so they don't have a clue.. Personally I love it because Gun Club shells are all over the place for the taking, and I do, as I shoot a Beretta 390 auto. I'm always shooting once fired hulls, makes life simple!

[myfriendis410]

Guys think they are loading "better" shells using STS and AA hulls when in fact over the long haul they don't. People will reload STS hulls ten times till the crimp is so weak that they get poor ballistic uniformity and look down their nose at a guy shooting reloaded (once fired) Gun Clubs! Almost all shot gunners have never patterned or chrono'd their loads so they don't have a clue.. Personally I love it because Gun Club shells are all over the place for the taking, and I do, as I shoot a Beretta 390 auto. I'm always shooting once fired hulls, makes life simple!

There you go: NEVER PATTERN OR CHRONOGRAPH YOUR LOADS!!! It's in the "what you don't know won't hurt you" category (assuming book safe loads of course). I am kidding, but I do see the guys lose their minds over how their shotgun patterns. If they're breaking targets, who cares?

You are right about work-stressed hulls not holding sufficient crimp strength. Saw an article in "Skeet Shooting Review" (Nick Sisley?) and he tested just that. Saw up to 100 fps variation in velocity in a 12 gauge load between once-fired and fifth-fired, and more in the sub-gauge stuff. Probably very critical in the .410 with the slow powder required for that shell. I try to maintain the same load cycle in my shells and when they look at all tired they go in the trash can.

[mac1911]

at leat with the 650 if you want to disable the progressive part. You just put one hull in at a time.
The 650 is by far the simplest progressive shot shell press.

[Dannix]

I was all set to put in the order at Gamaliel's (www.gamaliel.com) (Nobel primers at $.02 each), but after adding 50lbs of #5 shot to the cart, the full impact of how pricey lead shot is got my attention, particularly once I appreciated how quickly 50lbs of lead disappears at a rate of 1 1/8 oz a pop.

I'm thinking about diving straight in and picking up the .32 #0 Buck Sharpshooter (http://buckshotmold.com/) mould. (I figure .32 should stack in the hull better, and seems to be a good compromise between the #1 vs #00 debate for serious social purposes. Thoughts? I'll have to search around here concerning the Sharpshooter moulds.


Also, do you guys ever wash your hulls? It seems some revolt from the ideal, but I wet tumble my metallic brass with a Thumbler Model B and love working with the results.

[Dannix]

Just wanted to update this thread as I got a PM concerning it.

I did indeed go for a .32 #0 Buck Sharpshooter mould. I'm stacking 3 layer of 3, and it comes out to about 1.028oz, ~1 1/32 oz.

Charge: A conservative 19.1gr load of GreenDot, simply because I had a 32 bushing on hand.
Wads: Claybuster CB4118-12B, 1-1/8oz Windjammer equivalent

It's a nice, light, shoot-all-day load. Still have yet to properly pattern it though.

I operate the 650 as normal, I just simply pull out the shell after seating the wad, manually stack the buckshoot, and then add it back to the shell holder. It works like a champ and makes my single stage metallic press seem a bit tedious. I'll probably pick up a 33 and 34* bushings at some point for loads with a bit more umph. (Disclaimer: 34 bushing would be non-manual territory). I may also experiment with Federal 12S4 wads for 4 layers of 3. Unfortunately Claybusters doesn't make a (cheap) 12S4 equivalent.

I found out my Winchester pump's chamber isn't particularly generously proportioned. About 1 once-fired shell in 20 would cycle in it. So I picked up a SuperSizer for sizing purposes. (Am I correct in assuming sizing a loaded shell is completely benign, except perhaps for the hottest of loads?)

http://www.castpics.net/CPOM/thumbs/Oct-2011-11_t.jpg (http://www.castpics.net/CPOM/images/Oct-2011-11.jpg)

[Reload3006]

man i would be puckered but I probably would do it. I have mec Gear but shied away from the 650 because it doesnt resize. It would seem to me as long as nothing is around the primer it should be ok. LOL unfortunately only one way to find out.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Just wanted to update this thread as I got a PM concerning it.

I did indeed go for a .32 #0 Buck Sharpshooter mould. I'm stacking 3 layer of 3, and it comes out to about 1.028oz, ~1 1/32 oz.

Charge: A conservative 19.1gr load of GreenDot, simply because I had a 32 bushing on hand.
Wads: Claybuster CB4118-12B, 1-1/8oz Windjammer equivalent

It's a nice, light, shoot-all-day load. Still have yet to properly pattern it though.

I operate the 650 as normal, I just simply pull out the shell after seating the wad, manually stack the buckshoot, and then add it back to the shell holder. It works like a champ and makes my single stage metallic press seem a bit tedious. I'll probably pick up a 33 and 34* bushings at some point for loads with a bit more umph. (Disclaimer: 34 bushing would be non-manual territory). I may also experiment with Federal 12S4 wads for 4 layers of 3. Unfortunately Claybusters doesn't make a (cheap) 12S4 equivalent.

I found out my Winchester pump's chamber isn't particularly generously proportioned. About 1 once-fired shell in 20 would cycle in it. So I picked up a SuperSizer for sizing purposes. (Am I correct in assuming sizing a loaded shell is completely benign, except perhaps for the hottest of loads?)

http://www.castpics.net/CPOM/thumbs/Oct-2011-11_t.jpg (http://www.castpics.net/CPOM/images/Oct-2011-11.jpg)


Now you understand what I meant by "loading off press". Sounds like you have picked up the hang of loading on the 650, congrats!Robert

[Dannix]

Thanks Robert and all else who got me started. :mrgreen:

I patterned it today. All pellets hit within a handspread at 10 yards. I'd prefer something a bit tighter, certainly if I was hunting with it, but it should suffice for my house gun purpose.

[fallout4x4]

I like my 00 buck sharpshooter mold, but i am going to make new handles for it. Can you say hot? Its nice to know that skiesunlimited got an actually website instead of having to buy through evilbay. +1

[leadedguy]

I have loaded thousands of boolits with international love the stuff, clean, user friendly and whatever componenets you can find it has a recipe that will work also works for one ounce loads if you are loading heavy ounce and quarter or high velocity you will want different powder stick with the charge bar universals are ok but kind of a pain

[Dannix]

fallout4x4, I simply use some thinsulated suede work gloves I got from Northern Tools for a song. (I get in coupons from them from time to time). I didn't have a problem with the mould handles, as least with the handles that came on mine.

I found my mould needs to be smoked and thoroughly preheated -- a hotplate is highly recommended.

I may try international one day. I would love to try Silhouette, which apparently has a burn rate similar to GreenDot, to consolidate my powder utilization, but I highly doubt there's data for it for this purpose, and I'm not feeling adventurous.

[sirgknight]

Does your charging bar allow a bushing change? If so, then I would recommend that you not use a "universal" bar. Just purchase the bushings that you will need for your load data. If you have a charging bar that doesn't allow a bushing change, then get youself a bar that will. You will also find a lot of good information for shotshell reloading at www.shotgunworld.com. The following chart is also very informative and helpful:



http://www.mecreloaders.com/documents/Miscellaneous/PowderBushingChart.pdf

[Newtire]

I just scored a 650 for $30.00 today along with 10-25 lb. bags of shot @ 30.00 per bag delivered. Discovered the 650 resizes on a separate setup so will probably size on my trusty 600 Jr. or just sell off the 650 and continue to use my 600 Jr. I started with the old Lee pounder tool back in 1966 but found I needed some sort of sizer to allow me to use once fired range pickups. I guess a Super-sizer is an option but you can pick up even a beater old 600 press and buy the sizer parts from MEC for pretty reasonable prices for all the gauges you load for.

[GabbyM]

I just scored a 650 for $30.00 today along with 10-25 lb. bags of shot @ 30.00 per bag delivered. Discovered the 650 resizes on a separate setup so will probably size on my trusty 600 Jr. or just sell off the 650 and continue to use my 600 Jr. I started with the old Lee pounder tool back in 1966 but found I needed some sort of sizer to allow me to use once fired range pickups. I guess a Super-sizer is an option but you can pick up even a beater old 600 press and buy the sizer parts from MEC for pretty reasonable prices for all the gauges you load for.

Try it first.
I never needed to size 12 gage trap loads. Just forget those shells shot from those junk Italian and other over sized chambers. They are just junk anyway so why worry about saving stuff from junk $4,000 shotguns. I am serious about junk Italian and jap guns. Run SAMI chambers and forget sizing. Buy new ammo. Shoot it then reload a few times then start over. Just do not shoot shells from someone else's gun. Not a good idea on a sunny day.

[Newtire]

Try it first.
I never needed to size 12 gage trap loads. Just forget those shells shot from those junk Italian and other over sized chambers. They are just junk anyway so why worry about saving stuff from junk $4,000 shotguns. I am serious about junk Italian and jap guns. Run SAMI chambers and forget sizing. Buy new ammo. Shoot it then reload a few times then start over. Just do not shoot shells from someone else's gun. Not a good idea on a sunny day.Must be all my days are not sunny. I find that sizing is more foolproof way for me. I stay away from some hulls with steel bases but am not so up for bucks to turn up my nose at 1 X fired hulls, especially .410 hulls. I like the CF hulls mostly but shoot others. I have tried not sizing but find they don't work in all the guns we shoot them out of. Whatever works for you...

[trapper9260]

if you get some once fired hulls and they are odd ones some of the primers are not 209 that is use in the common hulls of the USA.Just want to let you know on that.

[Newtire]

if you get some once fired hulls and they are odd ones some of the primers are not 209 that is use in the common hulls of the USA.Just want to let you know on that.The French (Cheddite) and Italian Fiochhi Primers are a little bigger in size and are OK to use in USA hulls when the primer pockets start to get loose. Used to be there were Remington 57's which were smaller. What other sizes are there? There's gotta be an oddball somewhere huh!