Sizing .323 down to .315, it worked.

[littlejack]

Hey fellas:
Some of you may remember that I posted a thread a few months ago on sizing down 8mm jacketed bullets .323 to .314 for my Mosin/Nagant.
We discussed the fact that there may/would be jacket spring-back.
I did let the project go until today. The strain got to be more than I could bare.
First off, I wanted to size the jacketed .323 bullets down because my
8mm-06 AI was not too fond of them. I have settled on a different bullet for it anyway.
Now, back to todays adventure. I bought a 7/8 x 2" nf grade 5 bolt.
I cut the head off with a hacksaw. I clamped it in my cheap
made in China vice, center punched and drilled the hole down through the center, with my cheap made in China drill press
I first drilled a 9/32" hole then a 5/16" hole. I proceded to polish it out with 220 grit paper and a split rod. When I got close to the correct size, I switched to 600 grit wet/dry and finished it out.
I did open up the entrance hole to .320 to get the bullet started, and rounded the leading sharp edges to prevent scraping.
I took three 5/16" bolts of different length and made the push-pins. I rounded
off the hex corners, so the bolt head would fit in a shell holder on the ram of my RC press. I ground a minimal convex contour to the pusher end so the base of the bullet did not bulge backwards. I found this out after sizing the first bullet. The reason for the 3 different lengths, was to take advantage of the leverage on the press. Start short bolt with ram almost at the top of its stroke. Then lower the ram after pushing the bullet to that length.
Remove and replace with a longer bolt, etc.
The die works great. I sized one of my 315299 cast boolits and it sized from
.316?? to .31480.
I then lubed the .323 and it sized to .31540. So there was some spring-back, but
I do not believe this will hurt the bullets any.
My groove diameter in my M/N is .313. I am going to order one of the Lee sizer kits of the proper size, and see if I can make some useful bullets out of these .323 jacketed.
This was a first for me, and a fun little project. Good swaging to you all.
Jack

[Ervin]

Just a suggestion, try heating the bullet before pushing it through a Reducing die. Might help with springback???

[MIBULLETS]

Can you post any pictures of you die and bullets before and after?

[littlejack]

Ervin:
I am going to get one of the Lee push through sizers in .311. If I do get some springback in the smaller die, it will match the groove diameter of my rifle better. I think it will get hot enough for the jacket to hug the core while going down the barrel at 2500 fps.
MIBULLETS:
I am not equiped to post photos now.

This little project was mainly for me to find out if I could do it with the tools at hand, and to find out if I could in fact size these .323 bullets down to .314 diameter. I went over diameter by a little, but I found out what I wanted.
I am using the RCBS case lube for the lubricant on the bullets. There are small score lines around the perimeter of the bullet, which would be the bore riding section or shank. This leads me to believe that I did not get the drilling marks polished out all together.
Jack

[GRUMPA]

Well I never did that with rifle stuff, just pistol. I went and sized down a 45acp 230gr FMJ and sized it down to .430 and mic'd it, no spring back at all. I guess rifle stuff is a bit different. OH and I did that with one of my LEE push thru sizers. Took just a tad of persuasion to get it thru but I did it.

[frnkeore]

One thing you should consider is, opening the first part of your sizing die parallel to .323 or slightly larger, to start the bullet straight and parallel to your reduced diameter. That way the nose will remain centered as it goes through your die. The closer fit to the bullet the better.

Frank

[littlejack]

So GRUMPA, did the Lee sizer die have the first part of the opening larger to accomadate the larger diameter bullet as frnkeore has suggested? If not, how did you start the larger .452 bullet straight. Did the bullet set straight on the push pin, and stay straight?

Frank, this sounds like very good advice. That is something I had not thought of. Thanks
Jack

[GRUMPA]

LittleJack,

The push thru sizer is indeed tapered (larger at the start and then smaller to final size). But you gotta remember to lube the snot out of each and every one.

[GRUMPA]

I actually got the whole idea from an old reloading book and during hard times hand loaders that were tight on money would take apart surplus 45acp (milsurp), and simply size them down. Then they would put a canalure on and use them for silhouette practice. Works really well for that, but boy that sure seems like a long time ago for me.

[HARRYMPOPE]

i shoot the 245g ideal 8mm 323378 in 91-30 Mosin Nagants with success.i seat GC and lube to .323 then push it though a .314 lee die.i then turn it upside down(using a a SWC top punch on the GC) in a standard .308 sizer to taper the ft pf the nose down a bit.Run at 1500 fps is shoot as well as other "proper" 30 cal bullets.

before and after pic shos the bullet length grew quite a bit.

[littlejack]

Grumpa:
Thanks for the information and tips. This is the kind of input I really like. I think i'm gonna like doing this----- a lot.

Harry: Thanks for the information and photos. The more I do of this stuff, the more I like it.
Take care fellas.
Jack

[Andy_P]

I did this a couple of years ago.

I have a bunch of very nice 8mm (0.323") 218gr FMJ Cupro-Nickel bullets to play with. They're great in my 8mm's, but in pondering what to do with my Lee Enfields and Mosin Nagants whose bores go anywhere from 0.311 to 0.316", I thought I'd try sizing them down. I shoot cast, but these bullets are very aerodynamic and are just sitting there. I've sized down 0.338" jacketed to 0.332" for use in my Steyr M95's, so saw no reason whay not to try. It's best to use either a bonded core bullet like the Speer Hot-Cor of a FMJ bullet, so that the danger of a jacket being separated from the lead core and exiting separately (or not all all) is eliminated. The "Doomsday Crowd" says "Don't do it", but I have actually done it and there have been no separations and won't be.

Here's how to do it: Some bullets like the Speer Hot-Cor can be done in one stage from 0.323" to 0.312", but the Swede 218gr FMJ pictured here required at least two stages due to its thick jacket. I used a custom Lee-style push-through in 0.316" for the first stage, followed by off-the-shelf Lee 0.314" and Lee 0.311" (there is a bit of springback and I ended up with 0.3115"). I tried various lubes (important!) and found that Imperial Sizing Wax was inferior to the "Lee Re-Sizing Lubricant" and to the best I've found to date - "Dura Lube" (a high tech synthetic Lube).

The results are below. Note that the original 8mm bullet is lengthened from 1.470" to 1.488", the bearing surface is lengthened and the boattail is less pronounced.

http://www.pridham.ca/218gr_FMJ_323_312.jpg

[littlejack]

Very nice work Andy. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Also, thanks for sharing your technique. Very good information.
Jack

[Andy_P]

Very nice work Andy. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Also, thanks for sharing your technique. Very good information.
Jack

Thanks to you Jack - we all learn from each other. I got the idea from someone else, tried some things and lost some bullets before I got the technique refined.

One thing I forgot, was that considerable effort is required for some bullets when sized down more than 2-3 thou. I find that it's usually best to size down in small increments by screwing in the sizer a half turn at a time while simultaneously pushing down on the ram handle at the end of its stroke where upward force is at its greatest. I found the lube to be the critical component in the process.

[GRUMPA]

Hey Andy,

Give this a try next time you swage those things down. You noted that you encountered some spring back, by I would imagine .0005 larger than what you were going for (I think). Try this, put the sizing die in the freezer for a good 48 hours which will cause it to constrict (get smaller) by how much I don't know. Various metals will do this at different rates, anyway get the projectiles hot which will make them expand a tiny bit.

Now try this in this order: get the die from the freezer and put it in the press (time is your enemy at this point) get the hot projectiles, lube them quickly, and run them thru the sizer. If everything works like I remember the results (when the projectiles cool down) will be really close to the size that your attempting to get.

The cold die can and will shrink just a bit, by how much I don't know. And when the projectiles get hot (at least 250deg) they will expand a little. When they go thru the cold sizer and the end product cooled down, it should give you the size your after without modifying anything.

NOTE: You still need to go thru your process as described above, this is only for the final sizing process.