wadcutters

[slide]

I haven't cast any bullets yet. Still rounding up my equipment. The question to you guys is this. Do you think or know if a cast 148 grain wadcutter will be as accurate as a hollow base wadcutter? Years ago I was assigned to range duty and the Captain in charge casted all the bullets for qualifications. One day I decide to try them in a gun placed in a ransom rest. They went all over the place. When I showed Cap we stopped casting and started buying the bullets. All of the qualification scores went up. I don't know what kind of lube we used,he never would tell anybody how he mixed it. However,even with the cast bullets there was one guy who could shoot 580 to 590 on the PPC every time. Oh! almost forgot,we did try the cast bullets in several other guns in the Ransom. Same results.

[Wally]

I have shot both and for my type of shooting & at my skill level I have found no difference. Best to load a batch of each & to try them to determine how they compare. I should think that in the hands of a true marksman the HB would be just a bit more accuarte.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

which is faster Ford or Chevy ?

that's about the same question.
there are too many variables to your WC question that you are not including.
How were they sized ?
boolit flaws - boolit base not perfect
the Lube which you don't know?
what's the load ?
Were the dies properly adjusted when loading?
ect ect ect.

Many commercial made Hollow base Wad cutter boolits are swaged
instead of cast, those are more accurate. But what kind of accuracy
are you looking for ? Most cast boolits will shoot as good as Swaged
in regards to a persons ability to hold a handgun (freehand)...as least my
ability anyway.

CONCLUSION:
when you are ready, cast some up and see your results.
that's the only SURE way to answer your question.
Jon

PS: Welcome to the forum. there is lots to learn and this is a good place for that.

[slide]

They were sized .358 with 2.7 bullseye. Bullets bases looked good,never did measure. We loaded on a star progressive. This cases were running in a straight line from station to station. The machine operated with a foot pedal.It was very picky. I don't think it ever liked me. Cap did all the adjustments on the machine and I am sure everything was set as it should have been.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

OK, besides you reply in post #4, I re-read the OP.
I suspect there was something not perfect about the Cap's
cast boolits or Lube. Since he possibly mixed his own,
and told no one what it was, that'd be my first suspect.

Once you cast your own (which ever style you deside on)
use a boughten lube that's tried and trusted. I like the White Label
Lubes (He will send out samples) made and sold by a member here as well as Bullshop's lubes...I am not alone,
many have used these Lubes and had success, their prices
are equal to or better than nearly anything else.
that will eliminate that factor.

I'd start with the standard Wadcutter, they are easier to cast.
I have had success with them as well as many others.
some guns are finicky, if your's doesn't like WC's then try something else.
Jon

[44man]

Guns used to have all kinds of throat and barrel dimensions. Boolits were soft. The HB was made to expand to fit the guns. Destroyed boolits and severe leading.
The wad cutter needs a perfect revolver because the boolit will not self align the cylinder. It can not align in the forcing cone and being dead soft, it gets smeared off center.
The wad cutter was made to cut a round hole in paper. Some have a tiny protruding nose, just what is it for???
The semi wad cutter was made to also cut a round hole in paper and is no better with forcing cone and cylinder alignment. Cast soft, it turns into another boolit entirely from slump. The nose changes and the sharp edge goes away. Slump can be so bad, grease grooves and lube are all gone before the boolit enters the bore. Shooting sinkers can do as good! :mrgreen:
No way I will shoot a wad cutter and will never own a mold for one.
Get a real boolit!

[slide]

You have your opinion and I respect that. I shot in competition for 15 years using only the wadcutter.There have been may records set with that bullet. My partner and I set a record in the two man team competition using wadcutters. They are the mainstay of target shooting. I have know some guys who could shoot the x-ring out of a B-27 target at 50 yards using the wadcutter.

[Wally]

Guns used to have all kinds of throat and barrel dimensions. Boolits were soft. The HB was made to expand to fit the guns. Destroyed boolits and severe leading.
The wad cutter needs a perfect revolver because the boolit will not self align the cylinder. It can not align in the forcing cone and being dead soft, it gets smeared off center.
The wad cutter was made to cut a round hole in paper. Some have a tiny protruding nose, just what is it for???
The semi wad cutter was made to also cut a round hole in paper and is no better with forcing cone and cylinder alignment. Cast soft, it turns into another boolit entirely from slump. The nose changes and the sharp edge goes away. Slump can be so bad, grease grooves and lube are all gone before the boolit enters the bore. Shooting sinkers can do as good! :mrgreen:
No way I will shoot a wad cutter and will never own a mold for one.
Get a real boolit!

I use 'em in the .38 Calibers , .44 Calibers, .41 Magnum, .45 ACP, & the .45 Colt...a great bullet for plinking out to 50 yards. One can use a fast powder such as Bullseye or Red Dot and shoot them accurately with the benefit that you obtain better std deviations as the bullet takes up so much space in the cartridge case. They also shoot very well in my .357 & .44 Magnum carbines. As I shoot into a sand berm, the WC profile is ideal to stop quickly and I can recover & remelt them. IMHO they WC shoudl be used more, but I agree that they are best for indoor target shooting and plinking.

[R.M.]

Yup, between Bullseye, International Centerfire, PPC and who knows what else, the wad-cutter is king.
Like every other load, it has to be worked up for your particular gun.

[Char-Gar]

I do not believe the hollow base was placed there enable expansion in the throat, although it may well may do that. It is my understanding the principal reason of the hollow base is to move the center of weight forward for increased stability. 'At the low target velocities, these bullets can be a bit unstable and with the center of gravity moved forward they are more stable at super low velocities. They act something like a shuttle cock.

Now which is more accurate the HB or Solid Base? In theory the HB, but in practice most folks can't see the difference. In the days when Bullseye target shooting was about the only game in town we bought factory HBWCs in bulk to reload for practice. If we did cast, it was the solid base form, as while HB molds were available, they were very slow to use.

In any event when it came match time we shot factory ammo which was loaded with HBWCs at 650 to 700 fps.

Care musy be used with the HBWC, for at speeds beyond 700s fps or thereabouts, the skirts can be blown off and left in the barrel creating an obstruction for the next round fired. Solid base wadcutters can be pushed faster and in fact make a pretty darn good field load when pushed at mid-range speeds (850 fps or thereabouts)

2.7 grains of Bullseye was the universal load for 38 Special target load (HBWC or SB). But that can be boosted to 3.5 with the SOLID BASE version for field use.

[44man]

My reason is the dead soft lead of most wad cutters. Swaged boolits, etc. The same with the semi wad cutter.
Nothing wrong with the shape as long as it can align the cylinder and take the forcing cone.
Many do not fit the throats, undersize. Soft lead spurts from the gap.
I had to clean too many guns from the Cleveland police department after a range session. More lead on the outside of guns then at the targets.
Common wad cutters are all dead soft.
Sure they can be accurate, what? One gun out of 10,000?
Do I have to cross the line again and ask you to show 50 yard groups?
Slide, how large is the X ring on that target?

[Wally]

Last month I was at my range plinking cans with a Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawk using a Lee 235 WC bullet and 6.0 grains of Red Dot..a most entertaining endeavor hitting those cans out to 100' and more. Ditto with a .44 Specal loaded with a Lyman 429348 and a .45 ACP with a 454349..not to mention a .38 Special with a 358495. All bullets were of WW metal dropped into water right from the mold. No more leading than with any other bullets that I shoot.

[Char-Gar]

Most of your soft swagged commercial handgun bullets roll snake eyes past 750 fps or even less. I would never shoot a swaged HBWC past 700 or a SB beyond 750. I will shoot cast SBWCs 850 to 900 fps.

While I have shot many, many thousand WC in 38 Special and they have their place, I am of the opinion they are not the be all and end all of handgun bullets. They were designed to cut a clean hole in the target and give the shooter the extra point if the line is cut. They tend to loose stability past 50 yards at target velocities. They can be accurate bullets, but no more so,or even less so, than other designs.

Many folks think because WCs are used in target competition, they must have some accuracy advantage..not so.

I see no value in full WCs in 44 or 45..none at all. The field shooter is better served with a good SWC of proper temper.

[44man]

I found it. The center of a B27 target is 12-1/2" by 18-1/2".

[Wally]

Most of your soft swagged commercial handgun bullets roll snake eyes past 750 fps or even less. I would never shoot a swaged HBWC past 700 or a SB beyond 750. I will shoot cast SBWCs 850 to 900 fps.

While I have shot many, many thousand WC in 38 Special and they have their place, I am of the opinion they are not the be all and end all of handgun bullets. They were designed to cut a clean hole in the target and give the shooter the extra point if the line is cut. They tend to loose stability past 50 yards at target velocities. They can be accurate bullets, but no more so,or even less so, than other designs.

Many folks think because WCs are used in target competition, they must have some accuracy advantage..not so.

I see no value in full WCs in 44 or 45..none at all. The field shooter is better served with a good SWC of proper temper.

When plinking I usually shoot to up to 100' or so...in the calibers previosuly mentioned. The full caliber nose of a WC makes for a spectacular sight that often propells the targets some distance. My favorite shots are at the bottom base of a steel can--when hit just right, it will be propelled high into the air. SWC's are good as well, but the bullet doesn't take up as much space in the cartridge when using light to medium loads..like WC's do. RN bullets tend to punch through (drill) cans, often with little noticeable effect. Also, shooting WC's in sand, tend to have less richochets compared to other bullet types. Often they land quite near the target--those that do richochet, don't travel as far.....

[44man]

Last month I was at my range plinking cans with a Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawk using a Lee 235 WC bullet and 6.0 grains of Red Dot..a most entertaining endeavor hitting those cans out to 100' and more. Ditto with a .44 Specal loaded with a Lyman 429348 and a .45 ACP with a 454349..not to mention a .38 Special with a 358495. All bullets were of WW metal dropped into water right from the mold. No more leading than with any other bullets that I shoot.
There you go, harder boolits. I do not believe the wad cutter will go unstable over distance. More air resistance and a lot of drop. I believe it is the launch as Bass will say.
Those silly putty boolits just don't buy it.
We shoot 80% meplat boolits under 1" at 100 yards and I am convinced I could do it with a 90% meplat as long as I can engage the forcing cone correctly.
The problem with the wad cutter is always the engagement to the bore. As Charger said, other boolits are much better.

[white eagle]

Ford !

[slide]

The ten ring on the B-27 target is about 4 inches by 5 inches.If I remember right the x ring is 1.5 inches by 1.5 inches. I think what you have on measurements is a repair center for the B-27.

[44man]

My friends and I can shoot down to 1/2" groups of five at 50 yards FROM A REST with proper loads. I have been down to 5/16". Nobody can shoot off hand into 1-1/2" groups at 50. We do our best with 6" at 100 yards, off hand.
I do not believe anyone is shooting under 1-1/2" at 50 with wad cutters.
First, most guns are not capable even from a machine rest. The wad cutter is not capable either.
My vision has gone to pot with age. I used to shoot 1/2" groups at 50 meters from Creedmore and open sights. Off hand---Forget it, are you nuts?
Blow smoke but not my way, 50 yards is a long way off.

[Char-Gar]

For the record: I said that 38 Special wad cutters at target velocity (650-700 fps) will start to tip and tumble much past fifty yards. I said nothing about faster speeds or larger bullets. But, as to the original statement, It will prove to be true. Go shoot some 38 match targets loads at 75 yards and see for yourself.

Wally.. If more dirt in the air because of bullet strike is the goal, then I concede you point.

I won't get into size of groups at 50 yards, but many folks have scored 100/10X at 50 yards (slow fire) 38 and 45 in Bullseye match shooting. Remember for the X to count, all you have to do is cut the line. I have done so myself on occasion.

[NoZombies]

My smith 52-2 left the factory guaranteed to shoot under 2" at 50 yards with wadcutters and a machine rest. In fact, every smith model 52 left with the same guarantee.

[Wally]

For the record: I said that 38 Special wad cutters at target velocity (650-700 fps) will start to tip and tumble much past fifty yards. I said nothing about faster speeds or larger bullets. But, as to the original statement, It will prove to be true. Go shoot some 38 match targets loads at 75 yards and see for yourself.

Wally.. If more dirt in the air because of bullet strike is the goal, then I concede you point.

I won't get into size of groups at 50 yards, but many folks have scored 100/10X at 50 yards (slow fire) 38 and 45 in Bullseye match shooting. Remember for the X to count, all you have to do is cut the line. I have done so myself on occasion.

The goal is to hit where I want it to hit. For steel cans, I aim to hit them in the center at the base, where the can touches the ground. I also lay cans flat base toward me. The goal is to hit them that way so they are propelled into the air. Not much fun just drilling a can often with no dramatic results. I had a Ruger MarkII with me and it wasn't very interesting shooting cans with it as the .22 slugs would just drill through the can seemingly little affect.

[felix]

Make cans go high? Shoot about an inch, plus or minus, into Vertisol Clay (gumbo) with the can laying flat on top. Enough ump and the can shoots straight up, sometimes 100 FEET, if the clay is heavy enough, and boolit caliber and speed right on the money. ... felix

[Wally]

Make cans go high? Shoot about an inch, plus or minus, into Vertisol Clay (gumbo) with the can laying flat on top. Enough ump and the can shoots straight up, sometimes 100 FEET, if the clay is heavy enough, and boolit caliber and speed right on the money. ... felix


On my range we have no clay--just sand...lucky you!

[dverna]

Man it has been a long time. The H&G 10 cavity 148 gr WC I used would put 50 shots into about 3 1/2" out of my M52. The same load with the Remington HBWC was just over 2 1/2" for 50 shots. Range was 50 yards. Yes, we tested 50 shot groups out of a Ransom rest.

I used the HBWC for matches. I could not afford to shoot commercial bullets for practice but did not feel I lost much using cast. Really more of a mental thing.

A cast bullet (that most of us can make) will never be as consistent as a swagged bullet. The question is "Just how good do you need it?" Cast bullets are more than adequate for everything except the most demanding target work IF YOU DO YOUR PART! That means casting a good bullet, sizing it correctly and lubricating it with decent "goop",

BTW a Star does not load in-line. You likely had an Auto-Champ or Green Machine.

Don

[fecmech]

From my notes on wadcutters these groups were fired from a K-38@ 50 yds off bags with a dot sight. FWIW I owned a Ransom Rest years ago and with a dot sighted handgun off bags I can equal and sometimes slightly exceed the results I've gotten in the past with the Ransom.

Remington HBWC's--Averaged 2.0" for 6 six shot groups ( 2.8 grs BE flush seat)

Hensley&Gibbs #50 WC--Averaged 2.5" for 5 six shot groups(3.1 BE seated to crimp groove)

H&G #39 (158RN)--Averaged 1.85" for 6 six shot groups (4.2/BE seated to crimp groove) (900 FPS)

Also FWIW mixed headsamp brass will open groups and use wadcutter brass (noted by 1 or 2 cannelures halfway down the case) for your serious loads.

Actually the most accurate cast bullet now out of my K-38 is the Lee 120 TC 9MM bullet and the same thing in RCBS. Both will average right at 1"@50 yds running about 1000 fps!

[Wally]

From my notes on wadcutters these groups were fired from a K-38@ 50 yds off bags with a dot sight. FWIW I owned a Ransom Rest years ago and with a dot sighted handgun off bags I can equal and sometimes slightly exceed the results I've gotten in the past with the Ransom.

Remington HBWC's--Averaged 2.0" for 6 six shot groups ( 2.8 grs BE flush seat)

Hensley&Gibbs #50 WC--Averaged 2.5" for 5 six shot groups(3.1 BE seated to crimp groove)

H&G #39 (158RN)--Averaged 1.85" for 6 six shot groups (4.2/BE seated to crimp groove) (900 FPS)

Also FWIW mixed headsamp brass will open groups and use wadcutter brass (noted by 1 or 2 cannelures halfway down the case) for your serious loads.

Actually the most accurate cast bullet now out of my K-38 is the Lee 120 TC 9MM bullet and the same thing in RCBS. Both will average right at 1"@50 yds running about 1000 fps!

How about with the very popular Lyman 356402..has a similiar TC profile...?

[Char-Gar]

Wally.. Charcoal briquettes make great plinking targets with the 22. They are small and explode when hit. They are bio-degradable and no range clean up is needed.

[Wally]

Wally.. Charcoal briquettes make great plinking targets with the 22. They are small and explode when hit. They are bio-degradable and no range clean up is needed.

I guess they would and are the right size..great idea! KINGSFORD would most certainly approve...

[slide]

Okay, for those who think I am blowing smoke. Type in National Police Shooting Championship on your search. You will find the results of the 2010 match. Match 3 is the 50 yard match. Six shots sitting,six shots prone,six shots left hand barricade,six shots right hand barricade in two minutes and forty five seconds.High score on match 3 was a 238- 11X shot by Sgt. John Wizofsky of the Border Control.He put almost half of his shots in the x ring and only dropped two out of the ten ring. High woman was Dorcia Meador of the Fort Worth Police Dept. her score was 236-10X.

[Recluse]

One day I decide to try them in a gun placed in a ransom rest. They went all over the place.

My guess is (way) too much lube.

I've found that if I lube all three grooves in a WC, my boolits fly wherever they want to go. Two grooves lubed and I can get a lot more consistent, but will still have the semi-regular flyer.

Tumble-lubing or lubing only one groove gets me superb, consistent accuracy.

Wadcutters, from lube to powder, are a perfect example of when "Less is More."

:coffee:

[Recluse]

Okay, for those who think I am blowing smoke. Type in National Police Shooting Championship on your search. You will find the results of the 2010 match. Match 3 is the 50 yard match. Six shots sitting,six shots prone,six shots left hand barricade,six shots right hand barricade in two minutes and forty five seconds.High score on match 3 was a 238- 11X shot by Sgt. John Wizofsky of the Border Control.He put almost half of his shots in the x ring and only dropped two out of the ten ring. High woman was Dorcia Meador of the Fort Worth Police Dept. her score was 236-10X.

Don't worry, I KNOW you're not blowing smoke--I personally watched US Secret Service agents blow the center out of B-27s with their Sig 9mm at 40 meters. I've also watched Texas state troopers do it back in the days when they carried .357 Magnums.

:coffee:

[slide]

Thank you sir. It was a great in it's heyday but it has kinda faded out.

[9.3X62AL]

Thank you sir. It was a great in it's heyday but it has kinda faded out.

And more's the pity!

Recluse, a lot of cast WC shooters make the same statement you made above--that WCs get poetic when given generous lube amounts. Any guess as to why that is? I would wager on varying/excessive lube-slinging buffetting the boolits early in flight.

[deltaenterprizes]

My suggestion is a DEWC mold and weight sort the boolits to your level of consistency and load them with the sprue facing up.

[slide]

Good advice,I am not wanting to shoot matches. Been there,done that,loved it. This is geared towards my grandson. He has shot his Ruger 22 for a while now and wants to try the 38. He is 14 years old and is doing real good.I figure the more accurate I can load the 38's the better for him. He is pretty good at the reloading bench (under supervision) The casting is something we are going to do and learn about together. It is going to be a blast.

[fecmech]

How about with the very popular Lyman 356402..has a similiar TC profile...?

Funny you should ask. Back when I did the Ransom testing a friend gave me a bunch of those bullets he cast. Now I don't know what his alloy was or even how good the bullets were but they did shoot fairly well. So at the time just for the heck of it I ran 50 rds through the Ransom and I just dug out the target. There are 6 zingers around the periphery but the other 44 go into 3 3/8". I noted on the target it would have scored 497/500 on a 50 yd slowfire target. Load was 3.4BE.

[slide]

That is impressive!

[williamwaco]

I have shot both and for my type of shooting & at my skill level I have found no difference. Best to load a batch of each & to try them to determine how they compare. I should think that in the hands of a true marksman the HB would be just a bit more accuarte.


Ditto.

[firefly1957]

There MAY be a slight edge at distances over 50 yds to the hollow base because it will remain stable in flight a little better. The reason is that flat point tends to tip bullet in flight and the longer hollow based bullet (assuming same weight) will travel more like a dart then the solid bullet. I suspect the trouble was not the style of bullets but something else I shot many of those 38 with 2.7 grs. of bullseye it is a cheap good close range load for paper and small pests.

[olafhardt]

Wadcutters especially reversed hollow based WC's reduce the available powder volume. Also they increase the time between ignition and gas leaking at the cylinder gap of revolvers. I can theorize that reversed HBWC's should boost velocities in snub nosed revolvers. Has anybody experienced this?

[Mal Paso]

Ford !

Dodge with the 325 HP Cummins Diesel, 6 speed manual over a 2 speed transfercase.

[TCFAN]

I really like wadcutters in the 38. Mine is a S&W 14-6. I can spend a lot of time shooting one hand standing shooting at the 25 yard slow fire pistol target shooting for score.Not very good at it but I do like to try.
The most accurate WC I have shot through my gun has been the Speer HBWC with 2.8 grs. of Bullseye.The next best is the Ideal 358395 HBWC with 3.4 grs. of Bullseye..It is hard to find a WC that doesn't shoot good.
http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx200/TCintheOzarks/Cast%20Boolits/DSCN8242.jpg

This was at 50 yds. from a rest 2.7grs of Bullseye and the Speer HBWC..........Terry

[michiganvet]

I get great results with Lyman 150gr wc sized to .358, Lyman #2 alloy, RCBS rifle lube, 3.5gr 231. I prefer to shoot at 25 yds. On paper off of sandbags consistant 1 1/4" from 6" M 19 but cans are a lot more fun. With this really light load using carbide sizer and m2 expander the brass seems to last forever and it is really pleasant to shoot. Dont seem to get any leading and still shoots great after thousands of rounds without cleaning.

[williamwaco]

1) Care musy be used with the HBWC, for at speeds beyond 700s fps or thereabouts, the skirts can be blown off and left in the barrel creating an obstruction for the next round fired.

2)While I have shot many, many thousand WC in 38 Special and they have their place, I am of the opinion they are not the be all and end all of handgun bullets. They were designed to cut a clean hole in the target and give the shooter the extra point if the line is cut. They tend to loose stability past 50 yards at target velocities. They can be accurate bullets, but no more so,or even less so, than other designs.

1) True. ( kinda ) I have personally blown off these skirts when pulling factory wadcutters and increasing the powder charge ( do not attempt this at home ) but they did not remain in the barrel.

2) Every word of this has personally been witnessed by myself. I have frequently seen lightly loaded wad cutters keyhole at 50 yards. I have also seen Keith style SWCs, round noses, and truncated cones do the same.

As to accuracy, I have found cast wadcutters of all types HB, FB, and BB to be exactly as accurate as but no more so than ( most ) popular SWCs ( In .38 Special ).

Now the exception. I have never seen a handload of any type that can equal the accuracy of brand name factory hollow based 148 grain wadcutters out of a high quality accurate handgun when fired by me. ( Maybe you can do it. I can't do it and I have never seen it done. )
( Same applies for the .32 in a K32. )


Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned here:
These factory wadcutters are:
Very soft,
Swaged,
Tumble lubed, ( appears to me )
They mike about .354.
Their powder charges are no more consistent than mine.

BTsniper - you get the hint?

[Char-Gar]

Back in the days, when were were shooting lots of Bullseye competition, we never used handloads for a match, as try as best we could, they would not quite equal factory 38 Special Match ammo. Some folks swore, by Winchester, another Western, some like Remington, others Peters and so on.

[nonferrous]

Whats kind of fun is when when I am at the range with some of the guys and they all seem to want to shoot Glocks or some other kind of auto, ( Taurus, Kel-Tec, etc.).

No disrespect, but they aren't as serious about the whole thing and do a pretty good job of spraying all over. We compare targets and then they accuse me of having an edge because I am shooting a 6" K-38 or 686 and they probably shoot tighter than an auto.

So in the spirit of creating a level playing field, I say, "ok, I got this old auto in the box and if it makes you happy I will shoot it instead.
My 52-2 looks like most other autos, I took the counter weight off the frame so as not to blow it's cover.

[williamwaco]

Wadcutters especially reversed hollow based WC's reduce the available powder volume. Also they increase the time between ignition and gas leaking at the cylinder gap of revolvers. I can theorize that reversed HBWC's should boost velocities in snub nosed revolvers. Has anybody experienced this?


I have tried this MANY years ago trying to create a massive hollow point.

I have no idea what the velocity was. This was many years before personal chronographs.

BUT.

What I did discover is that they tumble like crazy.

You couldn't reliably hit a five gallon bucket at ten yards.
Fired about 20 of them and not one managed to hit hollow forward. Thay all hit sidways.

[williamwaco]

I say, "ok, I got this old auto in the box and if it makes you happy I will shoot it instead.
My 52-2 looks like most other autos, I took the counter weight off the frame so as not to blow it's cover.





;-) SHAME on you! Are they really that stupid?



I bet you don't know how to play poker either?

[63 Shiloh]

Great thread Fellers!

I have been having the odd flyer with my RCBS double ended wad cutter, put it down to my trigger control.

Having a read though the posts revealed something I new nothing about, that is only lubing one groove on the DEWC.

So, I made up a batch of .38 special, using my 148gn DEWC, ONE groove lubed with BAC, 2.8gn of WST and boolit loaded flush with the case. Just gave the case a light kiss with the crimp die.

Went down to the range with my Smith &Wesson 686, fired at 25 meters. What a difference! From Standing Unsupported, I was consistently putting all 6 shots into 2"-4" , no fliers.

Amazing what a slight change in a lube technique can achieve.


Mike