.44 or .454, which is better

[Four-Sixty]

I would like to pick up a hand cannon in the next few months, but can't decide if I should go with the .44, or wait a little longer and get the .454.

I like the option of using .45 colt in the .454, so I am giving the .454 the advantage. (I also think about getting a Vaquero in .45 colt one day.)

Can you gentlemen tell me any reasons why I should get a .44 instead of a .454? (Other than brass availability/price)

[Whitworth]

First I think it is important to define what it is that you will be doing with it. Hunting? Paper punching? If you intend to plink and paper punch, there are more pleasant calibers than the .454 -- as well as cheaper calibers. Now, personally, I prefer the .45s to the .429, but don't really feel you need all of the velocity the .454 has to offer. So, from a versatility standpoint the .454 wins as you can load it from mild to really wild.

[stubshaft]

Both cartridges will suffice for hunting and paper punching. It boils down to personal preference. When I turned 21 I bought myself a Ruger SBH in 44 (the 454 was still in developement) and used it for hunting, target and sillywett. When FA started to produce their 454 I bought one (FA83) and turned my SBH into a safe queen. I don't bother using 45LC cases as the regular 454 cases can be downloaded just as easily.

MY personal preference is for the 45 cal as I also have 3 45LC pistols too. The 454's are a little heavies in some cases, but the overall choice is up to you.

You can't go wrong with either.

[rintinglen]

44 brass, ammo, dies etc. are just about dirt common and much cheaper than the 454 stuff. There is more well tested load data for the 44 mag than the .454, and in equal guns, I have found the 44 to have a slight edge in accuracy. [With the distinct caveat that the FA 454 I shot was much more accurate than any other 44 or 454 that I've fired.] If money is no object, then the 454 might make some sense,; it is more powerful, afterall. If rampaging mastodons are part of the days shoot, then again the 454 is better,but otherwise, I'd go with the 44--unless you must have massive recoil in which case, get a 460 S&W. Shoot 45 colts for 22s, use the 454 rounds as your "specials" and use the 460"s as your magnum.

[Four-Sixty]

"Load from mild to wild"

I think that convinced me right there. I would like do everthing from shooting up paper, to maybe killing some hogs and even turn heads at the range. Sounds like the .454 will give me more options for doing my own load development.

Thank you for the input gentlemen.

I think you have helped me to choose the .454.
I'll just have to save up a little longer, but it will be worth it!

[Matthew 25]

I think I would argue for a 44. If you're fairly new to larger caliber revolvers, I think the 44 is a great place to start. Performance-wise, a lot of folks will argue a 454 and a 44 are very similar. Yes, a full house 454 has a lot more energy, but the fact is both a 454 and a 44 bullet will pass through most wild game at 100 yards. The 454 has a little bit bigger hole and if both calibers are sighted in for 100 yards, the 454 will drop about 1 foot at 200 yards and the 44 will drop about 2 feet...either way neither are flat shooters.
The fact is, both calibers are awesome and either one will surely work well for you.

[wildcatter]

45 caliber anything! just me I like it, 45 acp serious self defence and small game, 45 Colt anything in the lower 48 and 454 Casul for anything serious!! just me.:cast_boolits:

[DragoonDrake]

I love the 454. I have identical super redhawks in 454 and 44. I shoot the 454 more. It is more accurate and just as versitile as the 44. 44man will pop in here saying he does not like the small rifle primer and that it affects accuracy. Does it can it quite possibly, but I am not here to start a fight. Now I will tell you this I own 11 44 mags and 1 454. Take that as you will. (I also have a lot more 44 brass and I don't like using 45 colt in the 454. I don't like the jump the bullet as to make from the shorter case.). My $.02

[RobS]

I too am a 45 cal revolver shooter, but the 44 mag will do what you are asking. I own two 454 Casulls and the part I like is I can load to equal 44 mag velocities with similar boolit weight with less pressure. A person can down load however one needs to consider that Ruger and Freedom Arms have slower 1:24" twist rate barrels which makes it a bit more challenging to shoot lower velocities and still stabilize boolits for superb accuracy. Magnum Research's BFR puts on a 1:16" twist barrel on their 454 Casull revolvers so it makes shooting those 800-1000 fps rounds an easy task while still being able to run the high end casull loads. A good Blackhawk or Redhawk in 45 Colt will do much of what a 44 mag will do with the heavier boolits which is also something to think about if a person isn't after the wrist busting fun times of the full house 454 Casull.

I do shoot quite a bit of 3/4 loads and also a lot of upper end Ruger 45 Colt loads in my Casulls but down loading due to the slower twist rates is not something I do much of because I never end up with the accuracy I'm after. For this reason one of my Casulls is going to take a trip down the river and I'll be looking into a good used Ruger 45 Colt Blackhawk with a short barrel. The problem it seems as I've searched is most people want almost the same price for a good used one as a brand spanking new revolver.

[Tom W.]

Why, just two weeks ago I shot a raging mastodon with my .454 Encore.... No, wait, that was a paper target, but it was so hot at the range that I may have been hallucinating..

Anyway, I'll take it out to the range and shoot it and try different handloads from it, And I'll take it as my primary hunting arm during deer season, but I'd just as soon sell it. I won't be parting with my .45 Colt Blackhawk or my .44 mag Super Redhawk any time in the foreseeable future..

[Lloyd Smale]

i too shoot both and have for years. I guess if you have to ask you have no big bore experience and in that case would be much better served by a 44 mag. theres notihing wrong with the 454 but the extra power i provides is seldom needed and the recoil at those levels is a bit severe for someone new to big bore handguns. The 44 is a much easier round to download and brass and other reloading components are cheaper and easier to find. I consider the 454 more of a ferrari. even more so then the 475 or 500. It is a good round but is a bit more finiky to load for then the other big bore rounds.

[Lloyd Smale]

Like was said a 45 colt wouldnt be a bad choise either. The LARGE framed rugers can be loaded to 44 mag levels. Downside to it is your loading a gun to a level that the manufacture doesnt recomend if that bothers you and i personaly have had better luck with finding accurate 44 mags then i do 45 colts.

[44man]

RobS and Lloyd have explained it just fine.
The best thing I ever did was to bypass the .454 and go to the .475 BFR. Twist rates on most .454's are wrong, too slow. Made for lighter and faster bullets.
The primer problem with the .454 is only with the slow ball powders, H110 and 296. These must be loaded to max.
It takes more expertise to load the .454. The .475 BFR can make it look like the sickly sister with both accuracy and killing power.
Even the Freedom .475 and the SRH .480 have twists made for lighter boolits unless you shoot the heavy ones balls to the wall.
The Ruger .45 Colt has a 1 in 16" twist and is right at home with heavy boolits without high pressures.
The .454 has SHARP recoil.
I would choose the .44 first, then go right to the .475 BFR, a package that can actually shoot less then 1" at 100 yards. Recoil is heavy but not the snap of the .454.
Hard to explain but I never fell for the .454 or .460 because boolit choice for hunting comes into question.
The .460 is not accurate with .45 Colt or .454 ammo. The .454 is not accurate with .45 colt rounds. The need to download negates the purchase of of the caliber to start with.

[btroj]

I prefer the 44 over a 454 any day. Like Lloyd said, if you don't have experience with bog bore revolvers the 44 is easier to download and get used to. The 44 has much cheaper brass, a great variety of moulds, and is just plain easy to get to shoot.

[Groo]

Groo here
I have 44's , 454's and 475's and I would suggest a 44 mag.
It is easer to load for and has a good deal of power,,, makes a good learner gun
for the others..

[saz]

My 2 cents.......

I have a short bbl SBH in 44 mag and it is my pistol and caliber of choice. I find that it gives me all the recoil I care to take and still shoot accuately. I own a 454 in a levergun and I love it in the Puma, but I have fired plenty of 454's to know that I just start to flinch way too much when it is loaded to the gills. If I ever had to use it for its intended purpose (bear gun) it will be within 25 yds, and I dont think an extra few hundred fps will help all that much IMHO.

[smokingguns]

just get both and have 4 times the fun :)

[clintsfolly]

I was in a similar boat wanted a big scoped handgun. was looking for a 44srh and found a 454 at a great price. Was able to buy the dies and brass with the savings. So just see what you find out there! Clint

[subsonic]

.44Magnum

Get that one because it's "plenty" for most things you'll do. When you look for load data or anything else, you'll find more than you want.

.454 runs at a lot of pressure. Think rifles. The extra speed you'll get from the .454 is not nearly as important as more caliber when it comes to killing stuff. The .44 is much more pleasant to shoot. If somebody made a nice, tight chambered, properly dimensioned .45 Colt that could be loaded like a full-size Ruger, I'd suggest that. Nobody does currently. All of the .45 Colt Rugers I've seen have been off on throats dimensions and have sloppy chambers. Not true in .44 Mag. The .45 Colt Rugers are still not bad, and I'd suggest that over the .454

[Whitworth]

Don't be a Nancy-boy -- get the .454.........

Just kidding! :kidding:

[subsonic]

Have you looked at the .480? .475?

[44man]

Don't be a Nancy-boy -- get the .454.........

Just kidding! :kidding:
I know you are kidding because of your love affair with the .475 and .500 JRH---the best of the best! :bigsmyl2:
Yet more deer have fallen to my .44 then any other. There are just no flies on it at all.
I ran out of loads last season but had five left for the .44. I shot three deer and had two shots left.
I need to cast more and load more before the season. I always seem to be out when I need shells.
Dam it Jim! [smilie=l:

[bbailey7821]

They are both very good calibers. Although some would try to steer you to one or the other, the truth is that they will both serve you well. I've not had to opportunity to square off with a grizzly, but my 44 has stopped serveral 400 lbs pigs dead in their tracks. I also own a 454, and really enjoy it, but it is somewhat more finicky in the reloading department. If you decide to go the Freedom Arms route, you might consider a Saeco 454. It works really well in my model 83. Take care and good luck with whatever you choose.

[G. Blessing]

I'd do the .454. More versatile

The .45 colt can be run hotter, at less pressure than the .44mag, and in heavy hunting weight bullets.
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htm

Then of course, there are the actual 454 loads if your darring.... You can shoot from 45acp equivalent, to 45 scholfields, to 45 colt, and on up in one... a lot of versatility.

G.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

you cant shoot a .452 boolit out of a .430 get the 454 :razz:

[Whitworth]

you cant shoot a .452 boolit out of a .430 get the 454 :razz:

Great point!

[big dale]

I am pretty happy with my 44's. I have been owning them for over 30 years now and shooting them for about another decade before that. I can still handle them with full loads just fine, but I find I shoot loads of about 1000 fps most of the time. I have tried a few 454's and find most are extremely well made, but I just don't enjoy shooting them as much as the 44's. I think I would get a 44 and then put several thousand rounds thru it to see if I needed a bigger gun. The 44's always seem to hold their value very well.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

[Racer X]

I also am in that same dilema deciding between a 454 and a 44 Mag.

I spoke to Freedom Arms (John was his name) last week to get his input on getting good accuracy with 454 reduced loads because I don't want full-power loads. Told him that 90% of my shooting would be plain-base cast at 1000-1100 FPS.

He said he had one customer with a 454 that could not find a load to shoot with Unique powder. He said 1/10th of a grain in powder difference took his gun from shooting poorly to shooting 1" groups at 100 yards.

While on the phone, he also said that FA has become aware that in recent years, 90% of their customer shoot cast bullets. For that reason, they have changed the internal dimensions of the cylinders from an abrupt transition between chamber and throats to a more gradual leade. He said this change has helped accuracy with cast bullets.

I would like the versatility of the additional power of a 454. However, I don't want to spend years on load development finding an accurate, mid-range 454 load, so I will probably go with a 44.

[44man]

1/10 gr with a fast powder might do that but stop and think a little. One day you shoot might be 100* and when you hunt it might be -20*. Even day to day you will see a change. There is no sensible way to allow just 1/10 of a grain to work.
Old time rifle hunters had a system. They found the best load first, then downloaded and uploaded test rounds. They had to hit the same place and shoot almost the same groups. Now they were set for all weather.
I have shot thousands and thousands of loads with Unique and never seen enough change with all loads from mild to wild to tell anyone 1/10 gr change is a game breaker. It is a good powder and not touchy.
Tip the gun up and shoot, then tip the gun down and shoot. See anything? If you think 1/10 of a gr will solve that, I still have that bridge for sale. [smilie=w:

[bigboredad]

I really like big bullets so the choice would be easier for me. If you don't want to go to a .475 which I hear has recoil that is more manageable than the .454 and you also have the option of downloading it to a .480 levels. So for me the .454 is way above the .44 in my book. The .44 is a great round and finding loads that shoot are not that hard in my experience. But I love big bullets and as for something to put them in it would be the Freedom Arms. I got stupid real stupid and let one get away from me years ago and I have not found anything that can match it. I miss that gun more than any other I have owned.

[white eagle]

.44 or .454, which is better................ foe d foe

[Whitworth]

.44 or .454, which is better................ foe d foe


Wouldn't that actually be foe tweny nine??:kidding::bigsmyl2:

[Ed K]

If you don't want to go to a .475 which I hear has recoil that is more manageable than the .454

A myth...

[Lloyd Smale]

I surely agree with Ed. Shoot them both side by side with max loads and the 475 will get on you more. Its just phyisics. Shoot a heavier bullet with more powder and it about has to recoil more.

[Whitworth]

A myth...


Most definitely! It just has more of everything.

[subsonic]

More out the front = more out the back.

I would say that if you load a .475 and a .454 to the same speed with the same weight boolit, the .475 would be more pleasant to shoot due to the lower pressure - but having more metal cut out of the barrel and cylinder, leading to a lighter gun - it might be a wash.

I plan to look into a load like the BB 440@950 for the 500JRH when I load for the .475, in addition to some full-snort loadings.

[44man]

I don't know the weight differences between guns like the .475 Freedom or BFR. The BFR is about 3-1/2# for a 7-1/2" barrel. With an Ultra Dot it is 4-1/4#.
My Ruger has a 10" barrel and with a red dot it is 4-1/8#. I use a 330 gr boolit at over 1300 fps and the gun is pleasant to shoot.
A good boolit for a .454 is 335 gr.
I just find the recoil is sharper.
A few ounces more weight can mean a lot with any gun, even an inch or so more barrel helps.
Some guys actually buy alloy guns that are getting close to the boolit weight! :holysheep

[ole 5 hole group]

I plan to look into a load like the BB 440@950 for the 500JRH when I load for the .475, in addition to some full-snort loadings.

Shooting a 440 grain bullet at 950fps from the JRH is pretty mild - once you reach 1,300fps with that 440 grain it will start talking to ya - Anything above 1,300fps is a serious load and I would suggest rubber grips as opposed to micarta's if you don't use a glove.

[45r]

both are very good.the 44 will be easier to get good with if you shoot heavy loads.I get accurate midloads out of my Model 83 454 but like the trigger better on my Smith&Wesson 44.the 454 kicks plenty hard but does shoot flatter and hits harder but isn't needed for deer unless you want to shoot way out there.I shoot 240xtp mags at around 2000 fps out of my 454.my 44 can't shoot that fast.I shoot the rcbs 250 grain RN boolits with 11.1 grains trail boss and the rcbs 270saa with 15.5 grains HS-6 in my 454 and they're real easy to handle.the 44 with 9 grains unique and the lyman or rcbs 250 keith is real easy also.If you load the 454 to full power it will hurt your hands sometimes,the 44 seems like a ***** cat after shooting the 454 with 315 grain mtn mold boolits and a case full of 296.

[44man]

both are very good.the 44 will be easier to get good with if you shoot heavy loads.I get accurate midloads out of my Model 83 454 but like the trigger better on my Smith&Wesson 44.the 454 kicks plenty hard but does shoot flatter and hits harder but isn't needed for deer unless you want to shoot way out there.I shoot 240xtp mags at around 2000 fps out of my 454.my 44 can't shoot that fast.I shoot rcbs250 grain FN boolits with 10 grains trail boss in my 454 and they're real easy to handle.the 44 with 9 grains unique and the 250 keith is real easy also.If you load the 454 to full power it will hurt your hands sometimes,the 44 seems like a ***** cat after shooting the 454 with 315 grain mtn mold boolits and a case full of 296.
That is how I always felt about the .454 or .460. Good calibers but better for long range or large animals. Hardly nobody can make use of a deer gun for 200 yards without a rest and scope.
The .44 works fine at deer ranges and if faster kills are wanted, just go up in caliber without reaching velocities not needed or that need special bullets.
Boolits are just harder to work with on game when velocity gets too high so the .454 should be loaded down and a heavier boolit used. That gets you into heavy .45 Colt ranges, maybe a little better.
Downloading can present problems in the larger case. I have enough trouble with the 45-70 BFR so I didn't want the same problems in a higher pressure gun that does no more.
So unless I had a specific need for the .454, I seen no use for it.
One thing about the larger bores is that any good boolit works on any animal at any range they can be hit without changing a thing. My best, most accurate deer load will also take moose or larger with the .475.
It comes down to what you want. I don't want special bullets or boolits of all weights and alloys, cans of different powders and 10 different loads.
I want one boolit, one load. I want the best accuracy that can be had with one load. Yes I use different boolits but nothing much changes except for 1/2 gr of powder or so. They shoot the same.
If you shoot deer from 10 to 50 yards or even stretch shots to 100, the small nitch the .454 fits is just a personal choice. It and the .460 are better LONG range guns. Like buying a 300 HP car to drive 55 MPH instead of 150 or buying a .220 Swift when your farthest shot is 40 yards.
You can make them work and if you like them, go for it.

[44man]

Go up a few lines to Tek4260's post about an article on the .44 V .45 and read it.
Kind of amazing that a gun writers feelings about the .454 are exactly mine. ( I was afraid to mention the Freedom's short cylinder failings again but Ross did!)
Even his feelings that the Keith boolit is obsolete, as I have felt for years, is surprising.
Why I love the .44 and .45 Colt before stepping up in caliber that only shoots larger and heavier boolits at the same velocities.

[Racer X]

I have shot thousands and thousands of loads with Unique and never seen enough change with all loads from mild to wild to tell anyone 1/10 gr change is a game breaker. It is a good powder and not touchy.
Tip the gun up and shoot, then tip the gun down and shoot. See anything? If you think 1/10 of a gr will solve that, I still have that bridge for sale. [smilie=w:

This post started when "Tree Rats Must Die" was looking for input on whether to get a 454 or a 44. I am also pondering that decsion, and leaning towards a 44. My rationale is that the 454 sounds like it is finicky to download.

As for the "1/10th grain of Unique" issue, I was just re-stating what the guy at FA told me. I have no knowledge of the load data tested, was not there to witness the shooting.

[looseprojectile]

I have owned nearly all the 44s made since 1955 and shot them a lot. Had a Desert Eagle before Clint Eastwood did.
I am probably a little prejudiced. A 44 magnum is very shootable and accurate and there are a lot of moulds and brass for it. I do love the single action Colts but they are rather tender and limited to low power loads. After you have wowed your cronies at the range with your new 45, 46, 47, or 48 the 44 is still more practical.
If I ever thought I needed more power than a 44 magnum I would look to a 308 or 30 06 rifle.

Life is good

[44man]

This post started when "Tree Rats Must Die" was looking for input on whether to get a 454 or a 44. I am also pondering that decsion, and leaning towards a 44. My rationale is that the 454 sounds like it is finicky to download.

As for the "1/10th grain of Unique" issue, I was just re-stating what the guy at FA told me. I have no knowledge of the load data tested, was not there to witness the shooting.
I understand and working loads with fast powders is best done with small changes for pressure jump reasons.
But temperature and powder position problems do not go away.

[45r]

I've got accurate midloads with HS-6,trail boss,power pistol,unique,and 2400 with the model 83 454.I haven't found a load the 83 doesn't like but it is the tightest revolver in tolerences I've shot so maybe that helps.I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.I would probably get one in 475 Linebaugh if I did,I've always wanted one since it seems to give great accuracy and it probably can be downloaded accurately for reduced recoil.Just read an article about a ruger # 1 shooting half to one inch groups at 50 yards.model 83 could probably shoot pretty good also and make a good combo.

[Char-Gar]

By a good 44 Mag, and don't look back.

[44man]

I've got accurate midloads with HS-6,trail boss,power pistol,unique,and 2400 with the model 83 454. I haven't found a load the 83 doesn't like but it is the tightest revolver in tolerences I've shot so maybe that helps.I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.I would probably get one in 475 Linebaugh if I did,I've always wanted one since it seems to give great accuracy and it probably can be downloaded accurately for reduced recoil.Just read an article about a ruger # 1 shooting half to one inch groups at 50 yards.model 83 could probably shoot pretty good also and make a good combo.
A friend has the .475 Freedom and it just loves a 325 to 350 gr bullet. I got to 1/2" at 50 yards. It hates my 420 gr and all the rest of my boolits do not fit except the Lee, barely. I have everything here to 460 gr and there is no way to seat them. My BFR will shoot them like a house afire. I have shot 1" at 100 with my 420 gr.
Don't forget the twist rate and cylinder length. Long boolits can't be seated deep, pressure goes out of sight but they also expand the brass down too deep and can't be chambered.
Get one but use it as intended.
Even the Lee 400 gr must be seated in the top crimp groove as high as you can get. If it creeps out .002" under recoil, it will tie up the Freedom.
Now I do have a 325 gr boolit, PB by the way, that I got to 1" at 50 with the Freedom .454. But that gun took hours of work. Throats under size and worn oblong, forcing cone and rifling worn off center.
I just don't want to get into it any more.

[45r]

A friend has the .475 Freedom and it just loves a 325 to 350 gr bullet. I got to 1/2" at 50 yards. It hates my 420 gr and all the rest of my boolits do not fit except the Lee, barely. I have everything here to 460 gr and there is no way to seat them. My BFR will shoot them like a house afire. I have shot 1" at 100 with my 420 gr.
Don't forget the twist rate and cylinder length. Long boolits can't be seated deep, pressure goes out of sight but they also expand the brass down too deep and can't be chambered.
Get one but use it as intended.
Even the Lee 400 gr must be seated in the top crimp groove as high as you can get. If it creeps out .002" under recoil, it will tie up the Freedom.
Now I do have a 325 gr boolit, PB by the way, that I got to 1" at 50 with the Freedom .454. But that gun took hours of work. Throats under size and worn oblong, forcing cone and rifling worn off center.
I just don't want to get into it any more.

I'll have to look at the BFR's,I got a ruger 41 mag bisley hunter and it is as accurate as my 83 and it cost a lot less.The longer cylinder would be better in 475 Linebaugh.I've always wanted one but got side tracked by a custom project that has turned into a long waiting thing that I wish I would have spent on a 475.Everything I've read about the 475 shows them being very accurate and the big boolits would work very well I bet.

[44man]

I'll have to look at the BFR's,I got a ruger 41 mag bisley hunter and it is as accurate as my 83 and it cost a lot less.The longer cylinder would be better in 475 Linebaugh.I've always wanted one but got side tracked by a custom project that has turned into a long waiting thing that I wish I would have spent on a 475.Everything I've read about the 475 shows them being very accurate and the big boolits would work very well I bet.
The .475 is a wonder. Deer are out of it and run into trees and brush. I love it.
A good Freedom is a good gun but not as versatile because of the short cylinder and the slower twist. I wish they would do more instead of hanging on one gun frame. I wish the best for them but Bill Ruger was also really stuck with his ideas only. You could not budge him as great as he was. He was a genius.
Right now, the BFR is the best gun for the money. Dimensions are perfect, barrels are perfect, accuracy out of the box is like a rifle.
They do need a trigger job, small stuff.
I love the Ruger too but the larger calibers are from BFR. It is a huge Ruger but put together with precision.
I have issues with Freedom, being a gunsmith, but they have been stubborn like Bill Ruger was and S&W still is.
I have issues with BFR's too. Make the transfer bar higher, install over power Wolfe mainsprings.
When all is taken together with all revolvers, the least gripe I have is with the BFR's.

[pmer]

44man has me sold on BFRs too. I remeber reading about tight chambered 5 shot 45 Colt single actions and how they can be loaded between the 454 and Ruger only 45 Colt (wouldn't have to down load 454s for hunting).

So anyways, I went to the Magnun Research website and didn't see any 45 Colt BFRs - just the 45c / 410s. Unless I missed them, it's too bad they don't have one in 45 Colt only? To me, that would be the bugs ear, shooting 45 cal boolits from 800 - 1500 fps.

[Whitworth]

44man has me sold on BFRs too. I remeber reading about tight chambered 5 shot 45 Colt single actions and how they can be loaded between the 454 and Ruger only 45 Colt (wouldn't have to down load 454s for hunting).

So anyways, I went to the Magnun Research website and didn't see any 45 Colt BFRs - just the 45c / 410s. Unless I missed them, it's too bad they don't have one in 45 Colt only? To me, that would be the bugs ear, shooting 45 cal boolits from 800 - 1500 fps.

They make BFRs in .454........

[subsonic]

Used to make the DMAX guns in .45LC.

[41 mag fan]

I seen it on an earlier post but if you want a variety go with a 460. You get a pkg deal then. You buy a 44 mag you got 1 choice....44. The 460 will be a heavier frame which will reduce felt recoil. 45 lC brass ect is just as cheap as 44 mags ammo. Just my .02 worth

[Whitworth]

I have yet to see a .460 shoot any .45 Colt ammo accurately. There is simply too long a jump for the bullets to make to the forcing cone.

[44man]

I have yet to see a .460 shoot any .45 Colt ammo accurately. There is simply too long a jump for the bullets to make to the forcing cone.
I don't think it is the boolit jump. Look at the distance the BFR 45-70 and .500 S&W has to go before the boolit reaches the forcing cone.
It is more to do with the short brass.
It is true that the .38 in a .357 does not shoot good or the .44 SP in the mag or the .480 in the .475, the .45 in the .454. None shoot as good as the full length brass even if loads are the same and velocity is the same.
Maybe just boolits laying down in the chambers instead of in the throats. I have no answer but it is fact on the targets.
I would never buy a .454 to shoot .45 Colt ammo. Just buy a .45.

[jwp475]

Go up a few lines to Tek4260's post about an article on the .44 V .45 and read it.
Kind of amazing that a gun writers feelings about the .454 are exactly mine. ( I was afraid to mention the Freedom's short cylinder failings again but Ross did!)
Even his feelings that the Keith boolit is obsolete, as I have felt for years, is surprising.
Why I love the .44 and .45 Colt before stepping up in caliber that only shoots larger and heavier boolits at the same velocities.



If the FA's cylinder is too short, then so is the Redhawk and SRH. they are effectively the same

[jwp475]

I don't think it is the boolit jump. Look at the distance the BFR 45-70 and .500 S&W has to go before the boolit reaches the forcing cone.
It is more to do with the short brass.
It is true that the .38 in a .357 does not shoot good or the .44 SP in the mag or the .480 in the .475, the .45 in the .454. None shoot as good as the full length brass even if loads are the same and velocity is the same.
Maybe just boolits laying down in the chambers instead of in the throats. I have no answer but it is fact on the targets.
I would never buy a .454 to shoot .45 Colt ammo. Just buy a .45.



The 45-70 BFR and 500 S&W cylinders are throated accordingly and the 45's in a 460 is not throated for the shorter case. The bullet rummbles down the part of the cylinder where the 460s longer brass would normaly be located and the bullet miss aligns, Whitworth is correct

[44man]

I think shooting the .500 JRH out of the S&W would give the same accuracy problems.
You just create 2 forcing cones.

[subsonic]

I wonder what would happen if you had a boolit for the shorter case that had a somewhat thin driving band at case OD diameter with a large open crimp groove? The larger driving band would maybe keep things straight until the base of the boolit left the case and would maybe roll back into the larger driving band when it hit the chamber throat?

[44man]

I wonder what would happen if you had a boolit for the shorter case that had a somewhat thin driving band at case OD diameter with a large open crimp groove? The larger driving band would maybe keep things straight until the base of the boolit left the case and would maybe roll back into the larger driving band when it hit the chamber throat?
Might work, like the .22 LR.
Yet it is so simple to use the brass the gun was chambered for. Download the proper case.
When I want plinking loads in the .44 mag, I use that brass.

[bowfin]

I would pick the gun you like first, and fill in the caliber second.

If both choices seem identical to you (say a Freedom Arms in .454 and a Freedom Arms .44), then I don't think you will notice a big difference in hunting. I say this because I haven't seen any difference between a .460 S&W and a .44 magnum when it comes to hunting, although there can be a huge difference in the revolvers chambered for those cartridges. What I mean is that the S&W X frame would be great in any of a dozen cartridges for deer hunting.

I can't comment if there is a discernible difference in accuracy.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

my cast load for my 454 is mild 271/2 gr of H110 & a 300gr boolit shoots like a dream
i have 44mags too but if i had to pick one .452 hands down

[subsonic]

Might work, like the .22 LR.
Yet it is so simple to use the brass the gun was chambered for. Download the proper case.
When I want plinking loads in the .44 mag, I use that brass.

True. But I have a ton of .38spl brass that people have GIVEN me, as well as guns chambered in both .38spl and .357. I don't have much .357 brass. You can see why a decent .38spl level load sounds attractive to me.

[jwp475]

They will work and if loaded correctly will be accurate enough IME

[subsonic]

Depends on what accurate enough is, but I agree, accurate enough for most uses.

[jwp475]

Well I have found that 38 Specials shoot well out of a 357 cylinder. If you buy a mould from some one like Veral Smith of LBT you can have 2 crimp grooves on the bullet one for 357 cases and one fore 38 Spl case so as when the bullet is seated and crimped the 38's are loaded to the same overall length as when useing 357 cases and that will produce the same amount of bullet jump to the forcing cone and should produce the same accuracy

[44man]

Well I have found that 38 Specials shoot weel out of a 357 cylinder. I you buy a mould from some one like Veral Smith of LBT you can have 2 crimp grooves on the bullet one for 357 cases and one fore 38 Spl case so as when the bullet is seated and crimped the 38's are loaded to the same overall length as when useing 357 cases and that will produce the same amount of bullet jump to the forcing cone and should produce the same accuracy
I agree. Might be the way to go.