About removeable scopes

[lwknight]

You see on TV and what not the suitcase guns that you put together then make a long range snipe. I never removed a scope then put the same scope right back on the same gun.

So my question: Is it realistic to be expecting a scope with the large thumb screws to be removed or put back on and still be sighted in exactly?

It seems probable but I would not trust it without a test shot every time.

[303Guy]

Good question. I've done it and the first shot fired was right on target but the remaining six shots missed completely. The large thumb screws were loose! Still, the deer went down after a while having being well hit by the first shot.

[Four Fingers of Death]

SAKO mounts on SAKO work very well, bit touch and go with other brands. I have several Leupold detachable setups and they are ok as well, but I haven't had the chance to test them fully yet. My idea was to have one excellent Leupold scope (VX3 3.5-10x 50 with Euro crosshairs and illuminated reticle) and swap it across my three main rifles, 270, 300WM and my 375. Still figuring on that one. I'll let you know.

[leadman]

My Ruger SBH Hunter revolver will shoot to the same spot when the scope is reinstalled. The level of accuracy is not what one would consider as good enough for a sniper weapon.

With the Weaver bases and mounts on my Contenders it is pretty close when reinstalled.

[Country]

My Ruger SBH Hunter revolver will shoot to the same spot when the scope is reinstalled. The level of accuracy is not what one would consider as good enough for a sniper weapon.

With the Weaver bases and mounts on my Contenders it is pretty close when reinstalled.

In reality how accurate does a hit-mans rifle have to be to hit a person at say 300 yards. Every one of my hunting rifles would do that no problems .
With TV the equipment between hit-men and military snipers get blurred .
The real sniper has to hold much better accuracy out to thousands of yards.
So for a hit-man having a QD scope is feasible if the mount is precision made and designed to do just that.
However for the Military sniper it is not so easy as even a minute mar of the scope mount rail might cause the scope to go back on in a different position and while hard to see at 300 yards may be a miss at 1000 when applying the original dope . However real snipers and observers are very alert to unusual POI changes so it may only cause a few missed shots before they re adjust .
I have Sako's also and I have removed and replaced my scope on my 308 just to see what happens and I can't see any real change in the 100 yard zero that is way outside the normal grouping . So for minute of pig it makes no difference but at 1000 yards it would be a different story.

[Shooter]

My Ruger #1 will hold zero when the scope is removed and replaced. I use a quarter to tighten the screws so torque is consistant.
I usualy hunt with iron sights and use the scope for load testing.

[Doc Highwall]

I have shot a lot of competition where you have to switch between iron sights and scope and they will repeat zero. I use both 3/8"-11mm and Weaver- Picatinny bases.

What is important with the scopes is that you have to tighten BOTH rings at the same time when putting the scope back on.

Iron sights having only one screw do not have a problem.

[Hip's Ax]

Same here, I compete a lot where irons and scopes have to be changed out, sometimes on the same day.

For smallbore prone I'm still using Redfield 3200's and sometimes Lyman or Unertl. All go right back to zero no problem.

For position I use either a Weaver T24 or Leupold EFR on Anschutz rails, right back to zero every time.

For my high power prone guns I use Leupold 55188's with Leupold QRW rings on Weaver bases made my Warner. Same here, right back to zero.

[lwknight]

Thanks for the discussion guys.
I pretty much expected that the run of the mill scope mounts would not likely go back to zero and that mounts made for QD would work out OK.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I just remembered my friend in the 80s had a Ruger M77. He used to use a coin to undo and refit the scope and it returned to zero ok. He said that he felt that he should do it properly and get a decent screwdriver and when he used the screwdriver, it was always a few inches out, but when he went back to the coin, all was ok. We couldn't figure that one out, but like Larry Potterfield says, 'Thats the way it is (was)!

Must have got some wiggle up that the rifle liked when he used the coin.

I had two friends that had Marlin 30/30s with 4X (I think) scopes, both set up on Weaver bases and with Weaver rings. Both bought at the same time and identical, but one went back to zero every time and it was a lucky dip with the other one.

[PAT303]

I've shot both a blaser and Saur rifles with factory detachable scopes and both shot center with the scopes removed and refitted. Pat

[303Guy]

The trick is to ensure that the rails are perfectly in line and that there is no torsional stress in the rings when secured to the rail. (I have seen some folks tightening down the ring clamps unevenly).

[junkbug]

I had two friends that had Marlin 30/30s with 4X (I think) scopes, both set up on Weaver bases and with Weaver rings. Both bought at the same time and identical, but one went back to zero every time and it was a lucky dip with the other one

I would imagine with your two friends' Marlins, one shooter was better at consistancy than the other at remounting the scopes. Weaver mounts leave a lot of room for "Operator Error" if one is not careful, and focused on doing it the same exact way, evey time the scope is mounted.

[PAT303]

The blaser I shot had tear drop shaped lugs that swivelled down into tear drop shaped slots on the barrel,it is so neat and tidy it isn't funny. Pat

[Doc Highwall]

Standard Weaver rings will repeat or any other type of ring that only tightens from one side.

If the scope base and rings were clean when the scope was mounted, and both rings were tightened at the same time and sighted in, then removed and reinstalled and again both rings tightened at the same time and with the same torque, your zero will repeat.

[Rick Hodges]

I have a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 with Warne QD mounts on a XS Scout rail. It is removable and returnable without loss of zero. 5 shots groups at 100 yds. remain the same when taking the scope off and returning it between shots---Same point of impact and group size. (Note: this is a 2.5X Leupold IER scope. The rifle is not a tack driver but 2-3" groups are the norm.)

[Bret4207]

"You see on TV and what not the suitcase guns that you put together then make a long range snipe."

Doesn't that answer the question right off? It's a TV SHOW.

[MtGun44]

IMO, the 'TV gun' problem is more likely that the scope usually attaches to the reciever
and then the barrel attaches to the reciever. I'd think that most of the error would be
in extremely tiny differences in how the barrel attaches to the reciever rather than the
scope to receiver, but of course both errors add up. So many of these 'suitcase guns'
have the barrel dismounting, too. That can't help.

If the scope was mounted on the barrel, then I would think the effects of dissassembly and
reassembly would be minimal.

But I think in reality, Bret nails it. I always said that if you learned about something from
TV you either learned nothing or you learned things that are totally wrong. Firearms go
about 10 worse than other topics in that way.

Bill

[-06]

Anyone use the "cam lock" types? They are supposed to be very good.

[gew98]

I have a 'Jaeger' mount on my 30-06. Itis basically patterend after the German Short Side rail type base. And it holds zero dead nuts off and on. I also have a Danzig 1917 Scharfschutzengewehr98 with a detachable claw scope...and it holds zero perfectly when snapped back on. I've not had much luck with the scopes that need to be tightened with screws when reinstalled like weaver type bases. My friends that have reproduction german sniping rifles with turret or LSR types reattach their optics with no loss of zero.

[Char-Gar]

Most Weaver type mounts will return to zero sorta OK, but not perfect. I have two detachable scope mounts that returned to zero perfectly. You could detach the scope after each shot and shoot groups as small as those fired when the scope was not removed.

One was a Euro claw mount on a 1950's Brno sporter. The other was a Griffin and Howe Double Lever mount.

[Combat Diver]

I'll have to post a picture of a take down 7.62 NATO sniper rifle when I get home. Stock, reciever, scope, bbl, and suppressor all broke down into a small suitcase (lap top size). This was back in 1986.

CD

[gnoahhh]

The only QD mounts I have experience with are Griffin&Howe side mounts. I currently have three Mausers with them on. I have conducted tests with all three by firing a couple of test groups with the scopes on, then firing a group while removing and replacing the scopes between each shot. The resulting groups were dead nuts exactly where the control groups were and group size increased but 1/4" at 100 yds. on two of them, and not at all on the third. Now that's repeatability for you! (And goes a long way toward explaining why they are so ungodly expensive.)

I too hunt mainly with receiver sights when I'm carrying one of the Mausers (when not using a Savage 1899), and the scope rides in a leather tube slung over my shoulder or stuffed in my day pack. It goes on the rifle when I sit a spell, or if I think I may need it. 98% of the time it's off the gun. It makes for a handy, well balanced, rifle that is more likely to stay in my hands where it belongs and not slung over my shoulder. (The slings stay in my day pack too.)

[MtGun44]

My HK 91 (G3) with the factory clamp on scope mount will hold zero within an inch at 100
yds, usually less, when removed and replaced. But the movie guns removing the barrel
would seem to be the big issue, to me.

Combat Diver - how does the barrel mount to the receiver in that takedown sniper? How
well does it hold zero?

Bill

[Combat Diver]

MtGun44,

Held up well that I remember. I'll scan and post the pics when I get home next month. Been a long 2 yrs here.

CD

[MtGun44]

Stay safe. Very sorry to hear the news of the loss of so many Spec Ops guys. I have a
Spec Ops AF air controller "nephew in law" (if that is correct to say) and heard that 3 AF
air controllers were on board. I was worried about him until I found that he wouldn't
deploy again for a few weeks. Losing the cream of the crop guys is a real loss in capability,
although the loss for the family is the same for any soldier. The pilots and door gunner
were from the nearby city of Olathe.

What method did the takedown sniper use to attach the barrel? Just a normal screw in like
a regular rifle or some kind of quick detach fitting?

Bill