45/70 look'in good

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Early ELK season is just over two weeks away, and I have two deer tags for this Fall!!

All things go well, should have a bit more cast boolit hunting experience under the old and expanding belt by the end of the year.

The New 465gr mold from Bruce is producing some nice groups, so hope to have the load issue in line before the early elk season opens.

At this point, for whatever reason, boolit weight/excess velocity or??,
Bruce's mold is giving me much better groups [smilie=w:, much quicker then the 355gr LBT mold in use last year.

With the 465gr boolit, there is as expected, a decrease in velocity from the 355gr boolit tested and used during last season.

However, Doubt there will be any elliephonts give me much lip with a 465gr boolit starting out in the 1700 - 1800fps range.

Better get to the loading bench and get my loads ready for the next bench session, hopefully early Monday morning.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[1kshooter]

best of luck on your hunts...i will send my addy for you to ship a steak or two from your elk hunt lol

[Lloyd Smale]

that bullet has worked great for me too. My #1 really likes the hp version. I had it out last week and shot a measured 3/4 inch 5 shot group at a 100 yards. Shot up the last 10 of them before i left the range and had one ragged hole at a 100 yards. One of my marlins really likes the solid version too.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Lloyd,

3/4" sounds great, although I am happy with the test groups I have at 1 1/2"

As I recall, you were one of the folk who pointed me towards Bruce's molds with one in the mid 400gr range and the 465gr for which I ordered a mold.

That 1 1/2" load was from a series of RL7 tests, and right around the level that Bruce had rec'd reports, from mold customers if I recall correctly, of very good groups.

Because of the HUGE range of mild to wild loads possible with the 45/70 #1, I was jumping a couple grains between test loads rather then my normal 1 and .5grain increases.

Now that I have seen these promising results, I plan to go back and fill in the gaps with 1gr. jumps between loads and then take those results and go back to .5gr. jumps between loads.

Plan to load this afternoon, Shoot early Monday morning, so hope to have more results and a new test series formulating by noon.

Also have some retesting to do with H322, even slacking back below the first loads I tried in that series.

Believe me when I say that is a real change for an old "J" boolit shooter.

IMR 3031 just is not going to be a go for me with the Starline brass, as the case volumn issues with that powder are causing boolit seating problems. Deformed boolit noses and with the upper loads, preventing the boolit from seating to the crimp groove.

Thankfully RL7 and H322 are showing a lot of promise!

By the way 1kshooter, with the warm weather in Aug and early Sept., if'in you'll help this Ol'Coot wrangle a cow out of the brush real quick, I'll sure give ya more then 2 steaks.

Sure glad some friends live very close to where I plan to hunt those early mornings, and they have a very large cooler used to store plants after harvest from their green houses in the Fall and before spring shipment.

Doug said it is just a matter of flipping a switch and shortly the entire cooler is down to 40degrees.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot'

[crabo]

Lloyd,

IMR 3031 just is not going to be a go for me with the Starline brass, as the case volumn issues with that powder are causing boolit seating problems. Deformed boolit noses and with the upper loads, preventing the boolit from seating to the crimp groove.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot'

I use 40 grains of 3031 with the 460420, Starline cases, WLR primer, and a tuff of Dacron for 1500 fps out of my SBL. Very comfortable to shoot and very accurate.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Morn'in Crabo,

It is clearly due to the amount of 3031 used that I am having problems.

I am a fair amount lower in velocity with this new 465gr boolit then I was running with the 355gr LBT/WFN.

My only 3031 test series to date with the new slug went from 48gr - 1766fps to 50gr. at 1805fps.

All loads gave problems with boolit seating an boolit nose damage.

After that one set of tests, I have been putting my efforts into tests with H322 & RL7.

However, depending on what I find with the groups on the test loads I have loaded over the last two evenings, as per groups and velocity, it is possible I could go back for another run with 3031.

I suspect I would need to drop back at least 2 grains to get away from the seating and boolit damage issues.

However, considering where I am landing with exceptable groups and the velicities coming with those loads, the decrease in powder volume with 3031 may be exceptable.

I have just over one more week before our early anterless elk season opens here, so hope to have some workable loads found and retested during this next week.

A couple things I have not addressed at this point in the testing is boolit alloy and lube. Running with air cooled WW and Felix lube.

I have a number of lubes on hand, LBT soft Blue, a sample from mold maker Bruce and White Label "BAC", plus a batch of unrepeatable (another story) home brew.

Running out of testing time, If I can get something consistantly running close to 1 1/2" will probably go with it for this year/season.

Anyway, like all the info coming my way!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[725]

Small world, crabo. 40 grs. of 3031 with a 420 gr cast (group buy) boolit is my go to load for my H&R .45-70. Mild shooter, very accurate, and plenty of authority when it lands. Just a super hunter.

[Changeling]

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot', I sure wish you all the luck in the world, I'll be looking for some pictures when you get back and post them.

I always wanted to get nice Elk, but not sure if my health is ever going to allow it!
However my neighbor has killed quite a few and I've at least had the pleasure of tasting it, that is some fantastic eating.

Take care and be safe, Changeling.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Afternoon Changeling,

Yep, Elk is about as good as it gets, at least as to what I've tasted.

Moose is also very fine, but two we have had, when the wife and I took our once in a lifetime Ideeeeeho bull moose, was chewy.

Crock pot was a handy item, but the taste was just fine.

You could see during the cutting process that the grain of the meat was just a lot heavier then deer or elk.

Look'in like RL 7 will get the nod for this Fall, about 41gr behind Bruce's 465gr boolit.

Hope to get out at least twice more this week for shoot'in/testing.

Will test with three lubes this time, Felix which is what I've been testing with, the sample of the green lube Bruce sent along with my new mold and some LBT Blue soft.

Shoot those, and then back out to 200yds for a test run as per boolit drop and sight'in point at 100yds.

May need to throw a casting session in the end of this week, depending on what this next set of tests show, as If the Green sample or the LBT Blue soft shows the best results, will need some more boolits to lube up and load.

Anyway, know what your saying about getting out. I have a friend close by and have already talked with him about the possibility of needing help if I get a critter down some early morn'in.

Won't have a lot of time to waste as warm as it is.

The early elk opens next week.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[myfriendis410]

Have you tried either IMR 4198 or Benchmark or IMR 4895? The burn rates are comparable to 3031 but may provide better accuracy. I too tried 3031 with no success but get good results with those three powders and a WW bullet (although 520 gr.). Just a thought.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Hmmmmmmmmmm????????????

Out again early this morn'in and things seem to have fallen apart!

I'm good out to the 150yds I checked off the bench, but my groups this morning were nothing like I expected/hoped!

Or as tests over the last 3 weeks or so seemed to indicate.

With the elk season opening up next week, my testing is about over for this year, but clearly I have some work yet to do.

Think I'll put a post over under the metal alloy heading and see if there is any clear and proven thinking at to the best group producing alloy.

Not happy with the groups today, but any elk within reasonable distance is going to be table fare if!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[1kshooter]

so far the best hunting load i have made is the 420gr Ranch Dog and H4198 powder I have had such good accuracy with it I don't think i will use anything eles..ever lol
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/bowboy/0719012148a.jpg
do you have this mold to try?

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Have done no testing at 50yds with the 45/70, so don't know what it will do there.

Thought I was getting in the 1 1/2" range at 100, but this morn'in things just fell apart in that regard.

I have 2 molds, a 355gr LBT/WFN and the new one this year, a 465gr from Bruce here on the forum.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[BABore]

My suggestion would be to cast those boolits from 50% WW and 50% Pb. With the mold up to temp, cut the sprue just after the color change and water drop the boolits. You should be tearing just a little bit of sprue out at this temp. You can also OHT them at 435 F for a hour, then quench. Wait two weeks before shooting.

The best load I found for this boolit is in W-W cases, so you will want to back off just a bit and work up. The accuracy load is 46.5 grains of Hodgdon H335 and a Federal 210M match primer. Out of a #1 it should do less than an inch.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks Bruce,

Glad you checked in!

Have been picking up on H335 be used with good results by some folk, so as I am not yet done testing,, at least that is what the groups tell me, will need to pick some up.

Seems the 50/50 WW and lead would be a fair amount softer then just the plain WW.

With WW being 1/2% tin or less, so, will just need to take you at your word that I'll get proper fill out of the mold.

I have had some nice 1 1/2" groups out of the 465gr mold, but not consistantly and this morn'in thingsd just seemed to fall apart.

Had been developing/testing loads with Felix lube, but this morning tested your green lube and LBT Blue soft.

Finally got one of the sizer/lubers empty and made the switch to the green lube. Other sizer had the LBT product, so lubed up some both and gave then a try.

How do you come down on weighing and seperating your boolits by weight?

I hae not been during my recent tests, so ------------?

Thanks fellers!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[BABore]

You'll want to water drop that 50/50 alloy. You can add 1/2% tin if you want. It fills out just fine without it though. I get the same diameter with with it as WW's.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks Bruce,

Looks like I am going to need to look for a supply of soft lead.

Guess I should have hung on to part of my half that a friend and I salvaged a few years back.

Something around 5 ton of very dirty, but very soft lead.

Hmmmmmmmmmm!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[pls1911]

The best source I've found lately has been roofing lead .....
Now I'm waiting on a fall hail storm to restock the larder.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well, the special anterless elk season for which I have been gearing up, started this morn'in and for me, ended at 7:10 AM. :bigsmyl2: [smilie=w: :awesome: .

I haven't yet gotten the groups I am striving for, but now it looks like I have over 2 months to work on those before the general season opens for deer.

I put one of the 465gr - 45/70 boolits from one of Bruce's (babore) molds into what turned out to be a HUGE!! barren cow at about 100yds.

She was facing me at a quartering angle, so the boolit went into the near shoulder, through the bone, through a lung, clear through the paunch and almost exited the far side.

Figured my chance of ever finding a boolit in one of my critters was slim at best.

Awesome! I have read for years about how few rifles can get their "J" boolits through an elk paunch if a person gets a bad hit or a raking/quartering shot from the rear. Then you read of the elk which are lost because of just such a hit and the boolit is unable to do it's work on the vitals.

This boolit passed completely through the mass of green and really wet goo after loosing 137.2gr of mass during it's bout with the shoulder bone.

Guess you can say I am impressed!

The boolit nose is mostly gone back to the crimping groove, one side of the boolit shows a lot of abuse from the shoulder bone. The gas check is, of course, gone.

Only saw the one elk, and zero sign of any others having been moving through the area, but one was all I needed!

This one showed up when I was 3/4 of the way through my morning hunt.

I owe a huge thanks to the friend living close by that had offered to help if I got one down.

Without Doug's help to take care of and quarter, then load the two 4wheelers and then the use of his very large cooler to cool the meat, I simply could not have done this.

It is 85 + degrees here now, and by myself I would have lost meat and maybe ended up with two critters on the hillside. Me and the elk.

Oh ya, spotted the critter on the other side of a "Crick" bottom, made myself as small as possible, then saw that the critter was headed my way and after the second look showed her still coming, I sat down behind the tall grass along the dirt road I was walking and hoped she would keep coming and be within range.

She did and was. She dropped in the road, then slid down the bank about 10 - 15'!

Started late with this cast boolit hunting, and age being what it is this may be my last elk, but 2 critters down to the 45/70 with cast boolits in 2 shots isn't too bad of a start, even if it was a late start.

Two deer tags yet to go this season, but can now relax to the 10th of October and maybe get those groups trimmed down a bit!

Great day for an Ol'Coot!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[crabo]

Very cool. That will be some good eating. Got a picture of the boolit? What alloy did you use?

[waksupi]

Good going. I wouldn't have the guts to shoot an elk in these temperatures!

[TCLouis]

Congrats on makin meat EARLY

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep, Crabo that huge barren cow was rolly polly fat.

And as per the hot weather, I would not have been out there if not for Doug's willingness to help and his huge cooler and the fact that he and his cooler were minutes away.

Days when he was not home or otherwise busy would have been non-hunting days for the Ol'Coot.

AS it was, I was about done in a couple times during the process of gutt'in, skin'in, quarter'in, load'in on the 4wheeler.

If your go'in ta get old, ya better have some good and younger friends.

Doug & Pat's property and their green house operation is directly across the gravel road from the piece of property I was hunting. I walked back to the rig from the kill site, unloaded the 4wheeler ran it up to their house where Doug and some of his family were talking outside and we were back to the critter for the photographs and the dirty work a short time later.

There is truly NO WAY I could have done this in this kind of weather without help and a close by cooler.

Oh yes, the WW boolit sits on the desk in front of me as we speak. Photographs????

I have recently figured it out how to send images to an "E" mail address, but still not sure about posting to the forums.

Glad to send images to anyone wanting to send me their "E" address.

Keep em coming!

Cristy Deary Ol'Coot

[1kshooter]

C.D.O coot ...wow well done my friend and congrats!!
that is a special feeling when it all comes together!
Jonathan

[725]

How wonderful for you. That .45-70 is a joy to be sure.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

crabo,

Photographs should have arrived, I hope, by way or your "E" address.

later,

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Afternoon folks,

Bruce, I did get the H335, and sooner then expected. The frig went gunny bag, so had to make a trip into Moscow to get a new one on the way.

Hate it when that happens $$$$$. Was going to start cutt'in elk this morning, but needed to get the frig on the way.

Thankfully the critter is in the cooler - 35 to 37 degrees - so it is OK until I get there.

Did my casting session and have weighed out the boolits so with the H335 on hand, can start making more test loads.

Will be checking out the loading info and making test loads up in the range ( +/- ) of Bruce's listed 46.5gr of H335.

Clearly I need to work on technic of casting to get my weights to average better, but have a good pile of boolits that fall in the range of 462 - 462.9gr., a much smaller pile of 461 - 461.9 and a handfull that are below or above those wts.

So, will work with the 462+ group for these tests.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[greywuuf]

Would anyone be willing to post a picture of that bullet here and would that be Ok with you Coot ? if someone you sent the picture too posted it ? I too shoot a 45-70 only game I have taken with it though was a big ole bull Musk ox and that was with a light weight (300+ grain ) Jword bullet.

[BABore]

Here's a pic of the unfired originals.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks for posting the images Bruce!!!!!!!

Graywuuf, Glad to supply the critter and boolit images to anyone sending me their personal "E" address.

Over on the Marlin Owners forum, a poster already took pitty on me and posted the images, critter and boolit.

Part of my posting to the forum problem is image size.

Bruce sent me info on image size requirements etc. but as I told him, being an old burnt out photographer, I have a thing about photograph quality - sharpness/resolution, and just can't bring myself to shooting low resolution images.

If I did so, it would mean shooting for myself, and then resetting and reshoot what few images are needed to post to the forums.

I know there are photograph sizing programs, but without a resident 4 year old, I have not been able to "get er done."

So, for your person use, send me a P.M. with your "E" address and I can send you the photographs. Glad to do so!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[greywuuf]

Wow those are some nice looking Hammers! looks like they will get er done for sure. I shoot a late model ( 1990's) win 1886 anyone know of any throating issue ?

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Graywuuf,

I can't answer your question, but there is a good chance Bruce can or knows where to find out.

Bruce, from "BABore" made the mold I used for my elk, so the boolits he shows are the same as what I used. .462/465gr gas check.

AS per throating, Bruce's boolit chambers without issues in my #1, while a 355gr. LBT/WFN boolit had enough issues that I had the throat opened up a tiny bit.

Even then, some loads chamber VERY tightly.

The #1 I have is very tight and there was about zero lead or throat.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[JJC]

What are your pictures under at Marlin owners? Took a quick look and did not see them

[BABore]

Here you go;

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,94135.0.html

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks once again Bruce!!!!!!!!!

Seems you are one step ahead of me most of the time, or mayby I'm just two steps back all the time :popcorn:

For those who may want to see a bit more of the MarlinOwners forum, the images of the Ol'Coot, the critter and the boolit photographs - used and un-fired , are posted under "The 45/70 Govt." topic heading and under the sub-heading of, "2011 elk harvest."

Just checked it out a few minutes ago, and the post has moved down to the bottom of the first page, so like on this forum, if someone does not reply to the post it will soon move to the second page.

Simple way to get there is use Bruce's link.

BRUCE, loaded up the H335 test loads last night, but thinking back to your info, maybe should load a couple more test groups.

Your info said that 46.5 grains had proven to be very good, but that was with WW brass. With the Starline brass I am using, and factoring in the smaller case volumn I should have dropped back a bit more to get into the same PSI range.

I loaded 5 each at 46, 46.5, 47, 47.5, 48 & 48.5gr.

I'm thinking I should load up at least two more sets, starting at 45gr.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

OK, as per Bruce's recommendations, I tested 50/50 - WW/lead and quenched loads this morning with H335.

Other then the first group with 45gr and the last group with 48gr, the results were encouraging.

45.5gr started to look more group like, 46gr went 1 3/8", 46.5 opened up with one flier and 4 in 1 1/4" w/3 touching, 47gr went 1 5/8" with 4 in 7/8" and 47.5 seemed to be past the sweet spot with the group starting to open up.

Anyway, some of these need to be retested and I need to test some other lubes.

These were all shot with LBT Blue Soft, because that was what was in the sizer, so need to switch and try a couple others.

Anyway, MUCH better today then the pre-elk hunt session!!!!!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary OL'Coot

[BABore]

Most definetly test other lubes. While LBT Blue soft is a great lube, you will likely find that it is too much of a good thing for your demands. When trying out new lubes, expect it to take anywhere from 5 to 20 rounds for accuracy to settle in. I had a hard time finding a correct lube for the moderate velocity levergun rounds. Most were too slick and would throw cold bbl flyers. Very slick lubes, like LBT, will throw cold bore shots and also purging flyers during warm bbl groups. The LBT soft your using is better than the regular, harder Blue for the purging flyers. The MML (green) block of lube I sent you will remedy most of this.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Bruce,

I didn't pay attention to this on all the targets, but not seeing it it must not have been a huge problem, however, ---------------------

On at least one of the 100yd targets, there was a trace of blue - must have been from the LBT Blue Soft - by one of the boolit holes.

Like I said, didn't see a lot of this.

Temps. were in the mid 50s to 60s.

So, during the colder weather I would expect during the regular hunting season, I'm thinking more of the lube would stick to the boolits.

OK, from what I read on the forum, this is not a good thing. Correct?????????

I also noticed that at the lowest load levels, the powder did not burn as well as the loads with a bit more pressure.

I am using CCI 250 primers Rather then the Fed. you recommended, as that is the type of "Mag." primers I have on hand.

Will get some more test loads worked up. but the H335 was a good tip, THANKS!

Keep em Coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[BABore]

Bruce,

I didn't pay attention to this on all the targets, but not seeing it it must not have been a huge problem, however, ---------------------

On at least one of the 100yd targets, there was a trace of blue - must have been from the LBT Blue Soft - by one of the boolit holes.

Like I said, didn't see a lot of this.

Temps. were in the mid 50s to 60s.

So, during the colder weather I would expect during the regular hunting season, I'm thinking more of the lube would stick to the boolits.

OK, from what I read on the forum, this is not a good thing. Correct?????????

I also noticed that at the lowest load levels, the powder did not burn as well as the loads with a bit more pressure.

I am using CCI 250 primers Rather then the Fed. you recommended, as that is the type of "Mag." primers I have on hand.

Will get some more test loads worked up. but the H335 was a good tip, THANKS!

Keep em Coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

The Federal 210M primers I told you about are not a magnum primers, but rather a "Match" primer. They do very well in the 45/70 at keeping your ES low. I would ditch the mag primers and use CCI 200's if you have them. Even regular Fed 210's are ok. I've always got the ultimate accuracy with the 210M's.

Yes, LBT lube can get weird on you when temps drop below 55-60 F. It is definetly not a cool-cold weather lube. It's great in a handgun, but a complete waste of money due to its high cost. In moderate velocity rifle loads it's finicky depending on the boolit's lube capacity, bbl condition, and a bunch of other things. At high velocity it can really shine til temps change. I still use it, but it's in very specific applications. It will do everything that Veral claims it will do, but Veral only seems to make mention of leading and high velocity. Nothing much on accuracy.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Got ya Bruce,

I have been using CCI "BR" just because I have a bunch I was given.

That is until I miss understood your info.

I also have the CCI 200, but I understand the "BR" to be the same with a bit higher Q.C.

Will run the next tests with the standared primers and do what I need to do to change to another lube.

Eather way, I can live with 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" groups if I don't find better. :D

From this first test run, it seems like the H335 gave more consistant/positive results then what I had tried before, even if the burning seems more complete with the heavier charges.

May get to some loading this evening, so your info is timely.

Thanks,

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Piedmont]

It is definetly not a cool-cold weather lube. It's great in a handgun, but a complete waste of money due to its high cost. In moderate velocity rifle loads it's finicky depending on the boolit's lube capacity, bbl condition, and a bunch of other things. At high velocity it can really shine til temps change. I still use it, but it's in very specific applications. It will do everything that Veral claims it will do, but Veral only seems to make mention of leading and high velocity. Nothing much on accuracy.

With all due respect, Veral will tell you it is always the best for everything. He is like a Herter's catalog.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

OK, have had some testing sessions with the 465gr 50/50 WW/lead boolit, the MML green lube sample I received and H335.

Best and most consistant groups I have seen to date.

At this point I am coming down to 47.5gr of H335 in the Starline brass and using the CCI BR2 primer.

Would be using CCI 200, but have a stash of the BR2 that I was given, so they being the same as the 200 - they say - except for the more experenced operators and Q.C., I am using those.

I am also decreasing the spread on boolit wts. which is bound to help.

The groups I am now receiving will up my level of confidence come October/November and my two deer tags.

The RL#7 load did fine :bigsmyl2: for the elk on Aug. 1st, but much happier with the H335 groups.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Larry Gibson]

Having developed H335 loads using a 400 gr GC'd cast bullet for the 45-70 with CCI 200s and then in the cold weather (manytimes below freazing, actually most often, in NE Oregon) during elk season having severe hangfires I suggest you rework that load with the CCI 250 or WLRs. Both of those are made for igniting ball powders, especially in harsh condidtions.

The standard primers are fine with RL7 though.

Larry Gibson

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks Larry!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[9.3X62AL]

I've gone to Federal #215 primers for any ball-powder load in the caverous 45-70 case.

I'm still messing around with the Lee 405 plain-base mould/castings in this caliber. I snoozed (and lost) on a BRP mould, and I'm sorry I did so--his samples were VERY NICE BOOLITS. Other irons in the fire at present, and if it gets any hotter here I'll be able to pre-heat my ingots in the sunshine for casting sessions, and range days will require an ice chest for ammo storage. :)

[crabo]

Having developed H335 loads using a 400 gr GC'd cast bullet for the 45-70 with CCI 200s and then in the cold weather (manytimes below freazing, actually most often, in NE Oregon) during elk season having severe hangfires I suggest you rework that load with the CCI 250 or WLRs.
Larry Gibson

You can store you rounds in the freezer, and then take them to the range in a small ice chest with some cold packs, to test when the weather is warm.

The gun won't be cold, but if you don't mess around, you can get an idea about how the ammo will react when cold.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Crabo,

I have been thinking of just that same thing.

Freeze the ammo for a day or so, then pack in ice packs on the way to the range and do the tests.

The mass of the powder and the brass will hold the zero temp of the freezer for long enough to tell the tale.

I do think the ammo does need to be cold for at least 24 and probably better 48 hours to give anything like relyable info.

I have been looking at the books, and see that use of "Mag." primers with H335 is an on again and off again thing.

HOWEVER, I really do thank you all for your comments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The first set of tests I did with the H335 were with a CCI 250, as I thought when Bruce said a Fed. "M" primer he ment "magnum" when he in fact ment MATCH.

So, my last one or two times of testing or so have been with the standard level primers.

But, due to my mis-understanding of Bruce's info I do have some test info, targets and Chronograph sheets to look back at for comparing groups.

I did notice that with my first test loads, using the CCI 250, the starting loads of 45gr. H335 left a lot of unburned powder and floating smoke in the barrel. Both or those factors became non-issues as the load levels increased.

Anyway, because my elk season is over for this year, I do have time to do some freezer tests with the standard CCI primers as well as more tests with the hotter product.

I have more powder on the way, so will post more info when I have it, but maybe even freezing some of my recently loaded ammo for the freezer part of the test would get me started.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Did it!

Ten rounds of the 45/70 with 47.5gr H335 behind the 465gr boolit and sparked by the CCI BR2 went in the freezer this morning.

Will let them sit for at least a couple days and then totter off to the range - with the frozen cat-rid-ges sitt'in on ice packs in a small cooler.

Would hope that 10 rounds will tell the tale.

The load comes up close to the base of the boolit, but would not say it is compressed, so will report back with the results.

Don't really want to take enough time fiddl'in around so that the ammo has a chance to warm up once chambered.

But hope to target and chronograph the loads when tested.

I know the brass will transmit the heat from the rifle quite rapidly, but I think - if I hurry - the mass of the powder will feel little heating effect.

Will take the ammo from the cooler, one round at a time, and chamber/fire as quickly as possible.

If I am going to see any negative cold temp. effect, the 10 rounds, fired under the conditions listed above, should show something.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[crabo]

Don't forget to also shoot some warm cartridges so you have a baseline for how you are shooting that day.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Good info Crabo.

I recieved my new supply of H335 yesterday - 5 lbs. - all the same lot #, so I can take some loads out with CCI 250s to also compare.

Considering the testing faze, at least for hunting ammo is about over for now, the 700 - 800 rounds contained in the 5 lbs. will keep me shooting for awhile.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

OK, did the COLD/Brrrrrrrrrrr! 45/70 w 47.5gr of H335 tests this morning.

The 20 rounds were in the freezer for one day LESS then 2 weeks, and the freezer normally stays in the ZERO range +/- a few degrees.

I took the ammo, out of the freezer after I had the small cooler well loaded with ice packs, buried the ammo in the middle of the ice packs and headed out to shoot.

Using the CCI BR2 primer on these loads, which is a primer in the "standard" range and NOT magmum in flame or temp.

I set up in the low 60s morning temps, removed the ammo from the cooler one round at a time, loaded and fired as rapidly as possible.

Nothing negative, no hang fires, the velocities and group almost representive (35fps less) of this load under normal conditions.

I really doubt the powder or cartridge warned up to any degree with that 465gr hunk of frozen lead up front.

I looked through a reloading book or two, and found that the recommedation for "mag." primers was an on again/off again situation depending on the cartridge being tested.

Sooooooooooo, at this point, I can see nothing negative about the load currently being used.

Fired 4 - 10 shot 100yd groups this morning, one with Mag. primers, for the last one making some small adjustments to the scope.

Seems I'm good to go for hunting season with the 465gr boolit from Bruce's excellent mold, fired by the CCI BR2 behind 47.5gr of H335 all wrapped up in a Starline case.

Oh, by the way, was using a sample of lube from Bruce, and the frozen ammo gave zero problems in that area, the barrel looking it's normal bright and shiny self except for the again normal very slight touch of fouling right behind the muzzle.

Vel. 10rounds of frozen ammo w/BR2 - 1615.9FPS
Vel. 10rounds w/ CCI 250 (mag.) primer - 1658.7fps
Vel. 19rounds w/BR2 - 1650.3fps

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Larry Gibson]

Sounds to me like a thorough test and you should be good to go. Hopefully the elk will cooperate:-D

Larry Gibson

[TXGunNut]

Sounds like one Ol'Coot is ready for hunting season! CB's have never put a critter in my freezer, maybe this will be the year. Most of my shots are above freezing so will keep my boolits out of the freezer.
Good info!