derim 22LR and sizing brass with pneumatic press!

[BT Sniper]

Here you go guys.

Deriming 22LR and sizing 5.7x28 brass from .316 to .302 quickly and easily with a pneumatic press! Works like a dream!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp22uIuu1yc

22 cal dies are in the works. As you can see I'm having no problem deriming the cases. Core seat die is done too. Just need to order/make/buy custom reamer for point die.

Good shooting and swage on!

Be sure and stay for credits :)

BT

[bohica2xo]

Looks great, but seems kinda slow - can it run faster?

B.

[Utah Shooter]

"Actual operation of press is controlled by button located off screen that I push to opereate ram."

That is what it looks like too. Not saying that it is bad. More safe than anything.

[DDriller]

BT haven't got all my dies yet and you are after more of my money. :awesome: What is this going to cost me?

[BT Sniper]

It cost me a lot but is worth every penny. I don't know if it will be avialable yet or not. We'll have to see. Would probably require some laibility waver in case someone smashed their finger.

BT

[DDriller]

BT rig up a safety switch like is on a garage door opener. If your finger is in the light beam the ram won't move.

[deltaenterprizes]

Use the same hand you to push the button that you use to put the brass on the punch and keep your other hand in your pocket. One brain fart and a trip to the emergency room will be avoided.

[Jailer]

That is fantastic. Good from a production standpoint but how cost effective?

How many rounds do you have to make before it starts paying for itself? I know we do this because we love this stuff but cost effectiveness has to be considered.

Was the 22 brass that you were de rimming annealed?

[BT Sniper]

Was the 22 brass that you were de rimming annealed?

Nope!

You only have to try and size so many pieces of brass on a manual press before you realize the worth of such a machine. Kind of like a powered cannalure machine. The only way to justify the cost is by the smile it puts on your face vs. doing it the hard way. Saves me frustration and side aches/strained muscles or possible hernias. That to me would cost a lot more then this machine did.

I made it look dramatic for the camara. It is a lot safer then it looks. Yes brain farts would be bad. Just dont fart! :)

BT

[marten]

Normal operation on this type of machinery is two handed control, you load the ram then need both hands to press/actuate a separate 'button' to allow ram stroke. Without this type of control you will be open to litigation if someone swages their paw regardless of waivers!

Brain farts apart you can see that the single button allows easy damage to a paw...phone rings, 'honey do', knock on the door.
Not having a pop at you but the 'dramatisation' sure shows how it could go wrong. It is not safer than it looks - it is the simplest of things to mash your hand in that system.

I only point this out as I work in industry and have to be au-fait with these sort of safety systems.
Believe me the only way that you can truly attempt to make this safe is to ensure hands are removed completely from the punch area before stroke can start.

Again please do not take this as a slur on your work, it is just to point out a basic operation error.

Keep up the good work!

BTW Google 'two hand control'

ATB

[mold maker]

After an Insurance Investigator, asked how an industrial accident, costing 3 finger, happened,,,,, the BOSS demonstrated.
Not all the money spent, on the education we got, had the desired effect.
Ya just can't fix stupid.
There are many of us still waiting to remove a finger or two. We just haven't been allowed an opportunity, to put our fingers in the right place at the wrong time.
Glad ya offered the fact of needing to manually activate, instead of automatic, but as in the example above, requiring both hands is a big plus.
Reloading with 3 fingers and half a thumb, would suck.

[63 Shiloh]

Very impressive Brian!

Marten, I have heard of excessive litigation in the USA, I have put most of it down to exaggeration.

Surely, if Brian was to develop a kit like the one in his video, he cannot be held responsible for incorrect use?

I do not understand how someone could sue another party due to their own faulty use.

Is it really that 'strict' in the US, or are you just having a bit of a laugh with Brian?

Mike

[marten]

Very impressive Brian!

Marten, I have heard of excessive litigation in the USA, I have put most of it down to exaggeration.

Surely, if Brian was to develop a kit like the one in his video, he cannot be held responsible for incorrect use?

I do not understand how someone could sue another party due to their own faulty use.

Is it really that 'strict' in the US, or are you just having a bit of a laugh with Brian?

Mike

Unfortunately it is very easily proven with that setup that injury can occur.
When you sell gear to the public you need to make it as 'foolproof' as possible, sad fact is that common sense is not a legal defence.
Not having a laugh, just informing gently. I understand that stupid is as stupid does...
Please do not take these posts as trying to rain on a parade, they are a nudge to think a little more carefully about operation and consequences of misuse, nothing more!


ATB

[marten]

One other way to keep pinkies out the way.....
how about a case feed...Thinking about it, it's not to difficult to construct!

[BT Sniper]

No offence taken.

BT

[BT Sniper]

case feed would be cool

[63 Shiloh]

Right, thanks for that info Marten, I was curious about this as I am thinking of a project myself. One that will probably just service Australia at first, but maybe in the US one day.

I do need to read up on this litigation business, from your info marten, it seems I am a little naive.

Oh, and by the way mate, I think my 'having a laugh' comment may have been lost in translation too :smile:

Down here, 'having a laugh' would mean that you two may have a private joke going on between you, that you would know each other outside the forum.

It is not a statement of negativity in nay way at all mate.

OK, I have hijacked Brian's thread too long, I shall watch with interest in the de rimming setup progress.


Mike

[DukeInFlorida]

Wait until the guys in that OTHER .22 LR jacket thread get a peek at what Brian is already doing.....

Can you say, "Proper Ogive"?????

[Spanners]

Simple to fix ******* issues - 2 buttons more than a hand span apart.
You need left hand on safety button and right hand hits activation button.
Hit right hand button without left being held down - nothing happens - like Corbin Hydro Press

[marten]

Simple to fix ******* issues - 2 buttons more than a hand span apart.
You need left hand on safety button and right hand hits activation button.
Hit right hand button without left being held down - nothing happens - like Corbin Hydro Press

Nearly there, your idea is defeatable by holding / jamming your safety button down!
The real way is to have to actuate both buttons within a short time...


Anyroad I've said my piece, carry on guys!!!!:wink:

[Spanners]

Nearly there, your idea is defeatable by holding / jamming your safety button down!
The real way is to have to actuate both buttons within a short time...


Anyroad I've said my piece, carry on guys!!!!:wink:



Deffinatly - I do the same when playing with my hydropress, however you can only do your best to design a safe item - when people mess with it can you really be held responsable?
people will always try to get aorund things - can only do your best so that when used as designed here is no issues

[Hammer]

BT - You have done it again! Great idea. BUT!

Having to go back and ADD safety after the accident won't help your business liability insurance rates one lick!

Glad to see you chasing the 22 LR to .223 market. Welcome Aboard.

Ed

[BT Sniper]

Thanks guys,

At the moment this machine is nothing more then a personal item that I chose to share a short video on. Yes I have already discused with the designer how safty buttons and measures would have to be taken if somthing like this was ever to be offered to the public. At this time it is not avialble yet.

Yes having to go back and add safty would be a bad thing in case of an accident. Just to clarify, there has been NO accident as it could be read in "the accident".

Good shooting and I'll keep it safe.

Thanks

BT

[kombayotch]

A second less powerful pneumatic piston could move a feed bar back, similar to the annealer I posted.

You could also use a motor, and do something similar to the Magma bullet sizing machine, with auto feed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUZDjQsr6ok

[DukeInFlorida]

YEars ago, I was the New England sale guy for a rivet making company out of Waupun, WI. They also made and sold riveting machines.

I sold a machine to a company in Concord, NH, and normally the machines would ONLY go out the door IF we installed a proper safety mechanism. The customer got to choose from three different methods.

This particular customer decided that they would install their own safety.

I still had an obligation to be on site for the start up run, and to do training.....

I arrived at the factory at the appointed hour, but was stunned to learn that the lady that was going to run that machine has already put a rivet through her hand. The company never installed the promised safety.

I hope that lady sued the crap out of her employer.

[CATS]

Google " two hand NO Tie Down air control system". Look for a set up that requires button push at the same time and that has the button facing 180deg apart so that they can not be bridged with a pusher bar.

[Swede44mag]

Very Cool looking gadget BT.

If it can happen it will happen.

If one is going to sue for a accident caused by a hydrualic press can I sue the reloading die makers when I jab the decapping pin in my finger.

Too many lawyers takes all the fun out of making anything.

[alfloyd]

OK Brian, I just could not let you have all the fun. :lol:

So I tried to make an air powered ram, like yours, for my RockChuck press.

I did not know what size cylinder you used, so I started with a cylinder with a 1.5 inch dia bore.
NO GOOD, not enough power.

I then found a 5 inch dia bore with a 4 inch stroke. :p
It has all the power I need, with 100 psi, to derim 22 LR brass.

I used a 4 way electric air valve with a hand held push button to operate it.
I put the brass on the punch with one hand and then push the button to activate.

It also moves a slower than the one you have, which is a good thing.

My press has the Dr Blackmon mod done to it, which has the swage dies on the ram, not in the top of the press.
The top of the press has a floating punch holder for the top punch.
This gives it a auto eject system on the ram down stroke.

As an extra feature, it will also squirt my 22 cal cores from my lead wire.
It will seat the cores in the jacket and put the point on the slug as well. :D

I made about 2 dozen 55 grain HP slugs tonight to test it. Works GREAT.

No, I WILL NOT make one for anyone else. Just mine.

Lafaun

[BT Sniper]

Cool,

Glad you got it up and running. Be careful, it makes you lazy, next thing your going to want is a Hydrolic Swage Press :)

Good Shooting and Swage On

BT

[rasto]

Guys how did you attached into the press.
It uses leverage or it is straight powered from the bottom?
Thanks for your answer.
One picture is more that thousands words ;-)

[DukeInFlorida]

Brian and I talked about this recently. It's nice that rasto asked about it.
What Brian didn't show in his video is the actual pneumatic cylinder, etc.

So, Brian... when you get a moment, would you get out your video camera again, and show us what the cylinder looks like, how you hooked it up, foot pedal, air consumption and psi ratings, etc, etc, etc.....

Would love to speed up the derimming process.

[rasto]

Duke you right as alfloyd stated previously the cylinder should be strong enough to withstand and provide necessary power.
To make things easier I am planning to place the cylinder beneath the Lee classic cast and simply attach it directly to the press valve.
No leverage, no special tools or components.
For this reason I decided for this cylinder
http://www.smcpneumatics.com/CDQ2B80-100D-F7PV.html
which should be able to provide pressure of 3170N/0.7MPa what should be far enough for just derimming :-)
PS check ebay for half of price ;-)

[Lizard333]

You guys have it right about the two button safety. My dad had to go to Mexico to train the new employees that were now going to be taking over American jobs. He came to a machine that was already in use. It was a large press that stamped out plates. There was two guys on this press, each of them holding down a button. As you can imagine, my dad freaked out and explained to them need for ONE personae to operate the machine at a time. Nice to know in Mexico they have plenty of money for the labor. Two guys for less than the price of one.

After this incident, he quit the company. He didn't want anything to do with them anymore.

[mdenz3]

I have a box of pneumatic solenoids and a few cylinders laying around, I need to get to work...

[rasto]

It seems to me that we need to use our own design.
Solenoids are the way to go together with at least 50mm cylinder pumped by 0.7Bar.
Maybe some speed regulator would be nice to have on the way to cylinder

[jonblack]

Like someone else said, just use an optical switch, like a garage door opener. There is a video on YouTube of a can crusher with optical safety.

jonblac

[USMCamp0811]

OK Brian, I just could not let you have all the fun. :lol:

So I tried to make an air powered ram, like yours, for my RockChuck press.

I did not know what size cylinder you used, so I started with a cylinder with a 1.5 inch dia bore.
NO GOOD, not enough power.

I then found a 5 inch dia bore with a 4 inch stroke. :p
It has all the power I need, with 100 psi, to derim 22 LR brass.

I used a 4 way electric air valve with a hand held push button to operate it.
I put the brass on the punch with one hand and then push the button to activate.

It also moves a slower than the one you have, which is a good thing.

My press has the Dr Blackmon mod done to it, which has the swage dies on the ram, not in the top of the press.
The top of the press has a floating punch holder for the top punch.
This gives it a auto eject system on the ram down stroke.

As an extra feature, it will also squirt my 22 cal cores from my lead wire.
It will seat the cores in the jacket and put the point on the slug as well. :D

I made about 2 dozen 55 grain HP slugs tonight to test it. Works GREAT.

No, I WILL NOT make one for anyone else. Just mine.

Lafaun
Sorry to drudge up an old thread but I was curious if alfloyd or anyone else who has made a pneumatic setup for their press.. Derimming manually sucks! And my back sure as hell doesn't like it... Thanks.

[BT Sniper]

I have the necessary components in the works. The support arms necessary for the Lee Classic cast press are ready. I am sending the new rams for the press in to be nitride processed.

I plan to offer the components in a kit form. Haven't done so yet simply because I'm simply trying to catch up on current orders first. I'll have pics, plans and supplies ready very soon. Entire press can be put together for very reasonable price.

You guys will need to provide a bit of the pneumatic knowledge required to complete the simple build as all I plan to provide is some of the basic structures required for the build. This keeps BTSniper llc. out of any liability issues should anyone ever punch a finger or blow up a press.


Brian

[USMCamp0811]

Awesome my back much appreciates that news!

[BT Sniper]

Oh... Believe me I understand! Two things I can't live without when it comes to swaging....... an auto eject system of some sort and a form of power for deriming brass.

BT

[rasto]

I am about to build one of these and have some unanswered questions.
I have 10cm diameter 8cm stroke cylinder which I need to feed.
What kind of hose (diameter, fittings) should I use?
I am planning to buy 60l, 10bar compressor for this particular purpose.
Any other ideas or hints?

[257]

just to prove you can't fix stupid where I worked they had dual light beam switches 30 inches apart on a 100 ton press, that's what osha wanted(required) so the operator made up his own little device to hold with one hand and trip both switches at once with one hand ,enabling him to remove 2 fingers with one hand the man was not on pc work or even pressured to produce more. so it just proves you can't fix stupid

[rasto]

everything prepared ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEpow_gKPGA&list=UUMI2Wn9rlMda9tSL8ImZdFw

[rasto]

Here you have some motivation. It is irracional to pay hundreds of dollars for derimming machine when you can build your own under 50$ (compressor excluded).
Have a look at my configuration which works flawlessly.
148310148311

[hardcase54]

Neat, neat, neat.

[bullet maker 57]

Cool. Great job.

[rasto]

here you have some shopping list :
one piece
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-way-2-position-Solenoid-Valve-Air-BSP3-8-DC-AC-Inner-Guide-Pneumatic-Electric-/121362663528?var=&hash=item1c41c74868

two pieces
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pneumatic-Muffler-Silencer-Filter-Air-Flow-Speed-Controller-Sintered-Bronze-BSP-/111355517951?var=410337688615&hash=item19ed4e5bff

four pieces
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pneumatic-Air-Valve-Push-In-Fittings-Connector-for-Air-Water-Hose-Tube-4-12mm-/390825496669?var=&hash=item5aff03d05d


some used pneumatic cylinder the same construction as mine with at least 3" cylinder , bore 2-3"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-Pneumatic-Cylinder-02-50-H2MAU14A-1-500-Series-2MA-250-PSI-02-50H2MAU14A-/151185497536?hash=item23335b9dc0

some tubing and you are done :-)
Of course you need custom made lower punch and die holder but nothing fancy or expensive!!!.

[Chev. William]

Unfortunately it is very easily proven with that setup that injury can occur.
When you sell gear to the public you need to make it as 'foolproof' as possible, sad fact is that common sense is not a legal defence.
Not having a laugh, just informing gently. I understand that stupid is as stupid does...
Please do not take these posts as trying to rain on a parade, they are a nudge to think a little more carefully about operation and consequences of misuse, nothing more!


ATB

Chuckling, "Fool Proof" and "Idiot Resistant" are two things Lawyers Love to hear, It brings visions of Dollar Signs to their Minds.
The Original Maker is Held Liable even if the Machine in question was Recovered from a Scrap Yard and returned to service by the User WITHOUT any of the Original,let alone currently required, Safety features restored.
The 'Stupid Idiotic Fools' Can Get Big Settlements for their Lawyers for THEIR acts.
Best Regards,
Chev. William