SPG lube vs. Felix

[jonk]

I have heard a fair amount about the SPG lube and use for black powder rounds... but the main ingredient is beeswax.

The main ingredient in Feelix is beeswax.

Hmmm.....

Thoughts? I have yet to find a really cherry BP lube for my 11mm Mauser, so far my best effort is about 30 percent each RCBS smokeless and Beeswax, 30 perc. crisco, and 10 percent vaseline. Just slightly greasy to the touch.

[felix]

BP lube should be water friendly to be its best. Petro products tend to repel water more than veggie and/or animal products. Beeswax can be the carrier for both kinds of products with no severe problems, and that is why it is OK to use as a base. Another BP rule is to try and make a lube that has a final ph between 6 and 7 to help the fired carbon from packing too tightly (in effect). When shooting a low ph lube, immediate cleaning (and oiling) is required after the shooting. These are the only requirements I know of, and how you construct the lube will be up to others on the board who have a genuine interest in BP applications. ... felix

[fourarmed]

Anybody ever use bear grease in boolit lube? I rendered about a quart of it this year. Can't see using it on my hair. (I do still have some...really!)

[JeffinNZ]

I tend to think it's not a 'base' that matters so much. That is to say that while the base of a lube may be 50-60% beeswax the balance of ingredients will make or break it.

Common thought is that petroleum products and black powder don't mix so you could have 2 lubes, each with a 60% base of beeswax, one with petroleum based additives and the other with 'all natural' and you will get VERY different results with BP. Smokeless powder won't matter either way.

In terms of smokeless powder loads I think far too much focus is put on lube and not not nearly enough on proper bullet fit and alloy hardness. I am presently shooting a BP lube with smokeless loads at over 2400fps with not leading and good accuracy primarily due to good bullet fit and super hard alloy.

Just my humble opinion.

[44man]

I would never spend the money on SPG. It is very expensive and only works decent under very tight conditions. The stuff filled the last 10" of my BPCR with hard fouling under every condition I shoot under. There are a million home made BP lubes that work 200% better.
Don't use Felix or any other smokeless lube with BP. You can use a BP lube with a lot of smokeless loads though. SPG might work with smokeless but I will never spend the money for it again.
Lar 45 makes a super BP lube and it is inexpensive. I have had fantastic luck with it, why look for anything else?
JeffinNZ, lube can effect accuracy a great deal. If what you use works, fine, but I have tested many against each other and some will blow groups fast. Most of my shooting life, I never gave it much thought until I really started to work with different lubes. Starting with the proper boolit fit, just changing the lube can cut groups better then half. I used to buy all kinds of lube and always blamed my boolits or loads when they didn't work. I thought a boolit lube was a boolit lube. What a surprise when I found out what was going on. It sure was better then buying more molds, different powders and working all summer trying to get a gun to shoot. Many do not give the lube the credit it deserves. It is even more important with BP. The wrong lube, as in SPG or some of the junk with moly in it (Shaver's lube.) can make one quit shooting. An hour at the stove can turn things around.
You can make or break a muzzle loader fast with a lube change too. No one lube works best for every application and to limit yourself to just one can make you pull your hair. It is as important as changing primers, powder, brass or anything else. You must do the work with what you shoot.

[carpetman]

SGP vs felix-----Fight wont go two rounds. Felix kick his butt and knock him out in the first. Vegas doesnt even have this listed on their boards.

[wills]

Have you looked at these BPCR lubes

http://groups.msn.com/BPCR/bulletlubes.msnw

[TCLouis]

the BEST leather treatment ever created!

[threett1]

Found this lube a while back and works great in my Sharps and Trapdoors with Swiss and Goex powders. 5 parts beeswax, 5 parts Crisco, and 1 part Canola oil.:redneck:

[Duckiller]

Fourarmed, If you let that bear grease get rancid it is supposed to be a very good mosquito repellant. I use 100% DEET. Duckiller

[MT Gianni]

Anybody ever use bear grease in boolit lube? I rendered about a quart of it this year. Can't see using it on my hair. (I do still have some...really!)

Save it for pie crust. It is unbelievable. Gianni.

[Red River Rick]

Found this lube a while back and works great in my Sharps and Trapdoors with Swiss and Goex powders. 5 parts beeswax, 5 parts Crisco, and 1 part Canola oil.:redneck:

threett1:

Your receipe is almost the same as mine, and I've been using mine for years.
Substitute olive oil for the canola oil, the olive oil has a higher flash point and works very good as well.

The trick is to keep everything natural, no oil based products (vaseline). The crisco is vegetable based as well as the olive oil. The beeswax, because of it's exposure to the honey, will naturally repel bacteria, thus prevent the lube from going rancid and drying out.

RRR

[Dale53]

Bear grease should be kept in the refrigerator as it will go rancid sitting on the shelf.

I shot BPCR Sil for fifteen years. Emmert's Home Mix (50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Original Crisco and 10% Canola Oil) makes a very successful lube for Black Powder. I have since modified the original formula by reducing the Canola Oil to 5% and adding 5% Anhydrous Lanolin. The lanolin makes the lube stick to the bullet better over time and does a slightly better job overall. Be sure and use a double boiler to melt it to avoid overheating the lube. Over heating will KILL it for bullet lube.

This also makes a very nice smokeless powder bullet lube. It is used by a number of VERY successful Schuetzen shooters.

Lars45 lube prices are so inexpensive that I may never mix any lube again.

Dale53

[Howdy Doody]

I make up batches of 1/2 lb beeswax, 1/2 pound mutton tallow, olive oil to suit. I also add a dash of thompsons 1000 bore lube, but only because I like the smell of it. In the winter I add a touch more olive oil.
I have tried SPG and it is pretty good, but expensive. I have heard good things about Felix lube and someday I am gonna make up a batch. :Fire:

[threett1]

Dale, have had some problems with leading using my lube for smokeless applications. Got one more thing to tweak and iffin that don't work will probably mix up a batch of Felix or try some Lar's lube. :castmine:

[cherok9878]

Lars45 lube prices are so inexpensive that I may never mix any lube again.

Dale53

X2, Dale53, and his lube works...........Haven't used any of Bulllshop's lube but I understand it works well also. Bullshop's Sprue Plate Lube is WONDERFUL!

[jonk]

Hmm. If olive oil or canola oil, crisco, and beeswax work, I'll mix some of that up to try. I have about 15 pounds of beeswax and can go over to my mom's place and raid her pie making supplies for the crisco. I understand the lack of petroleum based product, but am a bit fuzzy on the statements of a water based/soluble lube- none of that sounds water based to me! Vegetable or fossil, it is still oil. Hmm.

[felix]

Not water soluble per se, but water friendly. Lanolin is your best example, which technically is a wax anyway. Beeswax and lanolin are natural "holders" of water. Honey is a water soluble substance, for example. This is what we are after. Really, the waxes/oils we desire have large spacings within their makeup to allow water vapor to reside. Instead of canola, olive oils, try safflower instead. It has a higher char point than any of the kitchen oils, and would be more consistent than olive oil. Reason? All safflower oil is processed the same way, as opposed to olive oil. ... felix

[13Echo]

I like Dale's lube (Emmert's modified with lanolin) and use it in my Trapdoors and Sharps as well as another lube of 6 parts Beeswax to 4 parts lanolin to 2 parts Corn oil. Both work well but I suspect I'm using a lot more lanolin in the second lube than is necessary, but it doesn't dry out on the bullets and bullets can be lubed weeks or months before use with good results. Unfortuntely the lubed bullet can't sit out. The roaches in the shop love the stuff and I can't seem to kill them faster than they reproduce. As far as Felix's lube if you leave out the mineral oil and replace it with extra castor oil or substitute another natural oil such as olive or corn oil it makes a decent black powder lube. It does have a high melting point because of the soap and doesn't pan lube well like the others. Someone on another list pointed out that the ingredients of a good black powder lube tend to be polar molecules, that is one end is at least partially hydrophilic and the other hydrophobic. Such molecules are capable of forming micelles and emulsions with water. Soap is the best common example of a good micelle forming substance. Dan Theodore feels that the best black powder lubes will react with some of the combustion products to form a crude soap. At the current level of understanding it's still part science, guess work, and black (powder) magic.

Jerry Liles

[John F.]

Very interesting!

Where can one find anhydrous lanolin?

John

[waksupi]

Very interesting!

Where can one find anhydrous lanolin?

John

Just wait until Carpetman shows up. You can scrape a layer off of him, it seems to be an endless renewable resource.
If you can't wait that long, try "The Sage" on the google engine. They have good prices

[TENRINGS]

Is carpetman still active member here?
I need some lanolin!!!!


TENRINGS

[44man]

Very interesting!

Where can one find anhydrous lanolin?

John
I have 2 places, From Nature with Love and Majestic Mountain Sage. I once got a 2# jug for $8 on sale.
Listen to Felix.
Water retention/pickup is what BP needs and SPG does not do that.
The stuff rejects water like car wax. It might work better with smokeless but the stuff is 4X over priced.
Listen to FELIX!

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Eight or nine years ago a friend gave me a large amount of rendered animal fat. I have no idea what mammel it came from but I mixed it with equal amounts of beeswax wirh a little olive oil thrown in the mix. I didn't write down the exact formula, a failure of mine that Buckshot is constantly chiding me about. I used this lube for bpcr and it worked great. In the years since I mixed the ingrediants I have never refridgirated it and it hasn't spoiled yet.